Buddy Rich's Modern Interpretation of Modern Snare Drum Rudiments

J

jesseleite

Member
I just bought the book and DVD combo called "Buddy Rich's Modern Interpretation of Modern Snare Drum Rudiments", which was a collaboration between Henry Adler and Buddy Rich, and recently revised by Ted Mackenzie (who also teaches on the DVD). My question is for those of you who have book and/or have seen the DVD....

I really like the logical process this book presents (starting with learning all of the rudiments as "non-bounce" exercises for muscle memory, then going through them a second time as "bounce" exercises for speed and practicality), HOWEVER something I am not sure about is the technique Ted Mackenzie uses for striking the drum. In the "full stroke" (up) position, the knuckles are facing up and thumbs are facing each other. When striking the drum, he describes a twist of the forearm so that when the stick hits the head the thumbs are facing upwards and knuckles are facing out to the side. Obviously the faster you play, the more subtle the twist needs to be. The thing is, one of my private teachers told me that knuckles should be facing up at all times and the motion of the wrist is a simple pivot rather than a twist. How many of you use this forearm twist technique when striking the drum? I DO NOT want to start any debates about right and wrong here, I just want to get a feel for how common this technique is... ?

PS. For those who have used the book, what do you think of it in terms of teaching rudiments? How complete is it compared to other rudiment books and methods?
 
samthebeat

samthebeat

Silver Member
well its fine to twist and it feels more comfortable when lifting the sticks to a full stroke posistion. If you are playing upto abou 8" of the drum then maybe i wouldnt turn. One of my good freinds uses a twist in his doubles and his doubles are blinding. He is a very muscular player and doesnt use a lot of bounce, but jesus he can play a double stoke roll.

I would'nt worry to much about the status qo, im not really sure how most people, if your not hurting yourself and it works its fine in my opinion.
 
J

jesseleite

Member
Okay thanks. To me it seems the wrist motion (the twist of the wrist using the forearm as Ted demonstrated in his video) is very exaggerated. I don't see many other players using this method exactly as Ted describes, and I feel it is very awkward. However, as you speed up while playing, these motions would become more subtle I assume.

Another thing I notice is that the Buddy Rich book goes through "ruffs" as alternating single stroke rudiments, but other methods don't always include "ruffs". I also have seen the ruff as a LLR or RRL with two ghost notes and then the third being the stroke. I thought this was a "drag", not a "ruff"?

I have been playing drums for 18 years but never went through all the rudiments (ouch). I wish I had taken more lessons so that I would have them under my belt already. Unfortunately I have to play catch up now :)
 
Monica McCoy

Monica McCoy

Senior Member
This was my first drum book. I've been playing for 2.5 years and my teacher still assigns lessons out of it. The binding is broke and all the pages are falling out LOL.

Took almost a year to go thru snapping each rudiment. Then 9 months to go thru again bouncing the exercises.

I basically worked on 1 or 2 lessons each week. Like 10 minutes a day. At class I had to play right and left lead with intention and in time. Also had to tap my foot on 1 and 3 (or each beat if I wanted). Failure to demonstrate it like this meant it was going to be reassigned for the next week. My teach is merciless.

Lately it's been advanced rhythm stuff. We did the reading sections early on.

My current books in order of acquisition are:

Buddy Rich
Stick Control
One Surface Learning
Finger Control
Advanced Funk Studies

The last one is the only one I picked. The others I was told to buy.

Good luck. And have a watch of the DVD's.
 
J

jesseleite

Member
Cool! Was your teacher strict on twisting the wrist when snapping out the rudiments for stage 1? (By twist I mean knuckles up in full stroke position, and thumbs up by the time the stick hits the head, just like Ted Mackenzie demonstrates on the DVD)?
 
C

ccsimms

Senior Member
I'm really eager to purchase this book/DVD soon, but by what you described it seems like one of those solo big band drummers from that era where it was alot of rudimental stuff on the shell with amazing speed and virtuousity...haha or maybe just something for show
 
Fox622003

Fox622003

Gold Member
Monica McCoy said:
This was my first drum book. I've been playing for 2.5 years and my teacher still assigns lessons out of it. The binding is broke and all the pages are falling out LOL.

Took almost a year to go thru snapping each rudiment. Then 9 months to go thru again bouncing the exercises.

I basically worked on 1 or 2 lessons each week. Like 10 minutes a day. At class I had to play right and left lead with intention and in time. Also had to tap my foot on 1 and 3 (or each beat if I wanted). Failure to demonstrate it like this meant it was going to be reassigned for the next week. My teach is merciless.
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Woah, you've got a good teacher right there! Leading with your right and left is extremely useful; and so is getting all your rudiments down real tight. After that, grasping and playing most stuff goes a lot faster.
Maybe in a few, you should check Gavin Harrison's books if you're interested in expanding your conceptual playing. Maybe Ted Reed's Syncopation, John Riley's Bop drumming books (if you're interested in Jazz), and The New Breed by Gary Chester is also a must for general playing and coordination. I don't know, all those seem like good complements to what you've been studying.

More on topic, I really think Buddy Rich's stuff (his playing included) has nothing of modern, and there are much better books and material on this subject.


Fox.
 
GetAgrippa

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Seems I remember a video of Dave Weckl showing how he changed his stroke-added a writ twist as I recollect?
 
J

jazzerooty

Junior Member
I just didn't connect with this book. I studied it for a while. I even took a few lessons from a man who had studied with Mr. Adler. I know Freddy Gruber used it in his teaching. But Freddy and Bruce Becker tout the Moeller System, yet you find nothing like it in the Buddy Book. The Buddy Book was the book Tony Williams studied with Alan Dawson.
 
MG1127

MG1127

Well-known member
jazzerooty said:
I just didn't connect with this book. I studied it for a while. I even took a few lessons from a man who had studied with Mr. Adler. I know Freddy Gruber used it in his teaching. But Freddy and Bruce Becker tout the Moeller System, yet you find nothing like it in the Buddy Book. The Buddy Book was the book Tony Williams studied with Alan Dawson.
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Alan did not teach out if the Buddy book.
 
J

jazzerooty

Junior Member
MG1127 said:
Alan did not teach out if the Buddy book.
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Alan taught out of Syncopation. But it hadn't been published yet at the time. The Buddy Book was. A friend of Tony's--I'm not saying it's true--said Buddy's book was Tony's "bible." Who knows?
 
B

Bozozoid

Well-known member
I've got the Weckl video as well as jo jo's secret weapons trying to get a wicked double stroke happening but something is just wrong. I also have the Moeller method guys video for some insight but maybe I'm unteachable. Half the time I'm wanting to throw my sticks through a window and slamming a beer to deaden the frustration....(damn it).
 
Push pull stroke

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Bozozoid said:
I've got the Weckl video as well as jo jo's secret weapons trying to get a wicked double stroke happening but something is just wrong. I also have the Moeller method guys video for some insight but maybe I'm unteachable. Half the time I'm wanting to throw my sticks through a window and slamming a beer to deaden the frustration....(damn it).
Click to expand...

Slow it waaaay down. Make huge motions, very slowly, lifting the sticks all the way above your head with each stroke. First get the actual coordination of playing doubles down, THEN worry about speed and specific techniques for fast doubles. The Weckl method was a real coordination challenge for me too, and I already had a good double-stroke roll. Just be patient.
 
B

Bozozoid

Well-known member
Push pull stroke said:
Slow it waaaay down. Make huge motions, very slowly, lifting the sticks all the way above your head with each stroke. First get the actual coordination of playing doubles down, THEN worry about speed and specific techniques for fast doubles. The Weckl method was a real coordination challenge for me too, and I already had a good double-stroke roll. Just be patient.
Click to expand...
An early morning thanks for the pep talk. I'll keep at it but damn! All's I want is a Weckl double stroke roll..not king of the world!. Thanks brother.
 
mrfingers

mrfingers

Senior Member
Push pull stroke said:
He got a wrist-twist version of the double-stroke roll from Freddie Gruber. First note of the double is in French grip, second note is German grip.
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I do the reverse...seems weird to me otherwise. My snap comes from rotating my wrist to the outside. I can feel the forearm muscle moving.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Push pull stroke said:
He got a wrist-twist version of the double-stroke roll from Freddie Gruber. First note of the double is in French grip, second note is German grip.
Click to expand...

what? How is that even possible/comfortable/doable?

I am planning on getting sick from my 2nd COVID shot tomorrow, so I might spend the down time seeing why this would be a preferable way to play doubles...weird
 
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