Blasphemy...possibly?

reilley

Junior Member
Opinion:

Yamaha does not offer a lot of size variations in their Tour Custom line, so what are the thoughts of taking a Stage Custom kit and swapping out the shells with 100% maple? How? Purchasing non-Yamaha shells that are pre-drilled for the Yamaha lugs, vents, floor tom brackets, etc, then installing the hardware from the Stage Customs to the new shells. A Frankenha kit, so to speak. Blasphemy, I know.

You could say - why not just buy a set of Absolutes? Well, because they're hybrid shells, as are the PHX line, both of which are very pricey and I want all maple shells. I would've bought Tour Custom but again - limited size variations. Tragically, I sold my old Maple Customs (1995 set) last year because I didn't want to use power toms and didn't want to have them cut, but I have to say that they were the best sounding drums I've even owned. I love Yamaha hardware better than pretty much anyone else's because not only is it durable, it's not chrome so it's easy to keep clean and no pitting.

Upon some research, I was able to price out a set of Keller 10-ply shells for 13x9, 16x16, 18x18, and 22 x 20 for about $839 with bearing edges cut. Drilling for my hardware is $6.00 per lug, $60 for spurs, and $50 per floor for leg brackets. This doesn't count vent holes or finishing, but all said it would be around $1300 for a shell swap not counting finish, which I might just go with a clear poly coat or an alcohol based stain then coat. By the way, I swapped the 1.6mm hoops on my Stage Customs with 3mm hoops.

Alternatively, I could just buy another kit, but we all know ANYTHING new in the above sizes would be pricey for anything decent, i.e. DW, Ludwig, Pearl, etc. I sent a quote request to Noble & Cooley over the weekend, but no response just yet.

SO, any thoughts? Is the shell swap a dumb idea?
 
Opinion:

Yamaha does not offer a lot of size variations in their Tour Custom line, so what are the thoughts of taking a Stage Custom kit and swapping out the shells with 100% maple? How? Purchasing non-Yamaha shells that are pre-drilled for the Yamaha lugs, vents, floor tom brackets, etc, then installing the hardware from the Stage Customs to the new shells. A Frankenha kit, so to speak. Blasphemy, I know.

You could say - why not just buy a set of Absolutes? Well, because they're hybrid shells, as are the PHX line, both of which are very pricey and I want all maple shells. I would've bought Tour Custom but again - limited size variations. Tragically, I sold my old Maple Customs (1995 set) last year because I didn't want to use power toms and didn't want to have them cut, but I have to say that they were the best sounding drums I've even owned. I love Yamaha hardware better than pretty much anyone else's because not only is it durable, it's not chrome so it's easy to keep clean and no pitting.

Upon some research, I was able to price out a set of Keller 10-ply shells for 13x9, 16x16, 18x18, and 22 x 20 for about $839 with bearing edges cut. Drilling for my hardware is $6.00 per lug, $60 for spurs, and $50 per floor for leg brackets. This doesn't count vent holes or finishing, but all said it would be around $1300 for a shell swap not counting finish, which I might just go with a clear poly coat or an alcohol based stain then coat. By the way, I swapped the 1.6mm hoops on my Stage Customs with 3mm hoops.

Alternatively, I could just buy another kit, but we all know ANYTHING new in the above sizes would be pricey for anything decent, i.e. DW, Ludwig, Pearl, etc. I sent a quote request to Noble & Cooley over the weekend, but no response just yet.

SO, any thoughts? Is the shell swap a dumb idea?
I don’t know about dumb but I would never do it. You going to spend all that money on a kid that’s worth about half of what you spend immediately. And that’s if you’re lucky. Building your own drums is cool, but I would sell the Yammies rather than dismantle them.
 
For that money you can buy a used Maple Custom Absolute or even orignal MC if you take time for hunting over a longer period.

But to me its not a dumb idea, as long as you dont stick badges back on them. If it works why not. The hardware is sublime so its a good investment for a long life of fun playing.

Also hybrid shells are very nice, and might suprise you (they did suprise me).
 
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Since you have all the hardware, I would contact Gary Posey at Summit Drums. The shells might end up being a little more expensive, but you would be getting solid maple. It might take a little longer to get the shells, but it would be worth the wait IMO.
Either way, I'd also take the opportunity to go from an 8 lug bass drum to a 10 lug.
 
I like maple shells, the way they “bark”. But I also want a bit more mass in the hoops, for ease of tuning, control of overtones, and clarity of sound. So the Stage Custom hoops are too lightweight for my tastes, and for this reason I’d advise against your plan.

Also, a 22X20 kick? You playing big stages all the time? Even if you are, consider coming down to 22X16, 22X15, or 22X14. The sound is great, and you’ll have an aesthetic that not only looks great, but is okay for more types of gigs down the road.
 
Upon some research, I was able to price out a set of Keller 10-ply shells for 13x9, 16x16, 18x18, and 22 x 20 for about $839 with bearing edges cut. Drilling for my hardware is $6.00 per lug, $60 for spurs, and $50 per floor for leg brackets. This doesn't count vent holes or finishing, but all said it would be around $1300 for a shell swap not counting finish, which I might just go with a clear poly coat or an alcohol based stain then coat. By the way, I swapped the 1.6mm hoops on my Stage Customs with 3mm hoops.
Sounds like a solid plan. IF ..... you're dedicated to those sizes. Finding a Yamaha 22x20 bass drum and and 18x18 floor tom are going to be extremely hard. Yamaha usually goes 22x17 max., and 18x16. I've never seen either a 22x20 or an 18x18.

I've played that "waiting game" of getting a kit ..... or most of one ...... and then adding that 1 elusive "matching" piece that you want, to get it JUST RIGHT. And it can take years. Hell, it can take a decade and a half. I see no way to buy "any" Yamaha maple something used, and get the sizes you want ..... within your budget.

I would echo Mcdonap's suggestion, to go 10 lugs on the bass drum. Other than that ..... if those are the sizes you want ...... get to building !!! ;)
 
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I like maple shells, the way they “bark”. But I also want a bit more mass in the hoops, for ease of tuning, control of overtones, and clarity of sound. So the Stage Custom hoops are too lightweight for my tastes, and for this reason I’d advise against your plan.

Also, a 22X20 kick? You playing big stages all the time? Even if you are, consider coming down to 22X16, 22X15, or 22X14. The sound is great, and you’ll have an aesthetic that not only looks great, but is okay for more types of gigs down the road.
He mentioned that he upgraded the hoops to 3mm.

I totally agree on your recommendation on the BD depth! Personally, I'd go to 14" deep.
 
Upon some research, I was able to price out a set of Keller 10-ply shells for 13x9, 16x16, 18x18, and 22 x 20 for about $839 with bearing edges cut. Drilling for my hardware is $6.00 per lug, $60 for spurs, and $50 per floor for leg brackets. This doesn't count vent holes or finishing, but all said it would be around $1300 for a shell swap not counting finish, which I might just go with a clear poly coat or an alcohol based stain then coat. By the way, I swapped the 1.6mm hoops on my Stage Customs with 3mm hoops.
Ebay usually has a bunch of orphan shells. It might take a while, but I think I'd go this route. Plenty of bargains to be had.

 
SO, any thoughts? Is the shell swap a dumb idea?
Yes. Or if not dumb, just needlessly expensive.

Are maple shells in those exact sizes really worth that much to you?

I considered going the "custom build from raw shells" route about 15 years ago. When you really start going down the rabbit hole of drilling and edges and sanding and staining it will end up pretty expensive, and I'm not sure the return on investment is ever going to work out.
 
I would do it.

Then again, I have done a few snares myself and I enjoy the process, the challenge and the fact no one has anything like it when I am done.

All in all it isn't a horrible idea to end up with an all maple kit with high quality shells and great hardware with a unique quasi-Yammy look for $2000ish.....

The only thing I would do differently is I am dumb enough to drill my own shells with a layout mat.......
 
I'd be more inclined to replace the lugs and rims on a Stage Custom than do the reverse; thought these were the most cost cutting points of the kit given it has a hard time holding tune in my experience....not dumping on it, but you have save costs somewhere for that price point. But I see you replace your hoops, would use other lugs for sure....so what is left, a YESS mount? Sort like bringing in your old 90 MHz processor to be inserted into your next computer purchase to save buck IMO
 
He mentioned that he upgraded the hoops to 3mm.

I totally agree on your recommendation on the BD depth! Personally, I'd go to 14" deep.

I missed that!

Even so, shells that aren’t 100% maple still tend to sound very, very good (PHX, Brooklyn), and you’d at least have a kit with some re-sale value. And probably a better finish.
 
I have a set of Maple Absolutes. At one point, I got a Birch Absolute floor tom to go with it.
With the same heads and tuning, I don't think you could tell them apart.

About the Stage Custom idea though - I took a different approach:
I cut round over edges, used inverse dyna hoops from a Tour Custom set, and run coated vintage emperors.
I have three maple sets, and with these mods done to the stage customs, you'd be hard pressed to tell what wood they are.

Sometimes you just get an idea in your head though that you have to follow through on - so have at it if you must.
 
Disclaimer: I don't have a lot of time these days, and I have very limited success with working with my hands, so a project like this simply does not appeal to me at all. Therefore, my opinion is going to be clouded by this.


You wanted opinions, so here's mine. First, a 22 x 20 would suck. Go look at pics of them and make sure that this is the look that you want. Also, I've owned two different 20 x 20 kicks (one birch, one maple), and they were horrible. That's just too much air to move. Make sure you play one first and that you love the sound before pulling the trigger to have one made. I just sold my beautiful Pork Pie USA kit after 19 years of ownership. Why? Well, one of the reasons is that I became less and less enchanted with the 22 x 18 kick. To my ears, the magic depth is a 14" for 20", 22" and 24" kick drums. Your mileage may vary.

Second, if you want a Keller-shelled kit, keep your eyes and ears open for drum set made with them. Soooo many drum companies have used Keller shells in the past, especially back in the 1990's and early 2000s. Look for an old OCDP, Shine, Battlefield, GMS, Pork Pie, C&C, Legend, Dark Horse, older DW, Spaun, etc. If you find one with a wacky finish, you can sometimes get those cheaper.

If you build this and don't like it, resale on a one-off, home-grown $1500 keller drum set will go for about $500 if you're lucky.

However, if you are hell-bent on 10-ply Keller shells, then go for it!

I'm not trying to poo poo on your project; I'm simply given my opinion. Don't let me stand in the way of your "forever drum set" if this something you really want to do. I'm wrong a lot!

I found this one online. I've heard good things about his drum sets if this is Jimmy from LadyLuck:

 
I agree about the old Maple Customs -- wonderful sounding drums.

$500 to drill out the kit? How many hours do you suppose that would be? I imagine you could find somebody to do that for less.

But don't underestimate the cost of putting a finish on, if you're not going to DIY. There can be a lot of time involved in that, depending on the finish choices.

I think you could lower your costs by finding a reputable local builder and having the edging and drilling (and maybe finishing) done through him/her.
 
Opinion:

Yamaha does not offer a lot of size variations in their Tour Custom line, so what are the thoughts of taking a Stage Custom kit and swapping out the shells with 100% maple? How? Purchasing non-Yamaha shells that are pre-drilled for the Yamaha lugs, vents, floor tom brackets, etc, then installing the hardware from the Stage Customs to the new shells. A Frankenha kit, so to speak. Blasphemy, I know.

You could say - why not just buy a set of Absolutes? Well, because they're hybrid shells, as are the PHX line, both of which are very pricey and I want all maple shells. I would've bought Tour Custom but again - limited size variations. Tragically, I sold my old Maple Customs (1995 set) last year because I didn't want to use power toms and didn't want to have them cut, but I have to say that they were the best sounding drums I've even owned. I love Yamaha hardware better than pretty much anyone else's because not only is it durable, it's not chrome so it's easy to keep clean and no pitting.

Upon some research, I was able to price out a set of Keller 10-ply shells for 13x9, 16x16, 18x18, and 22 x 20 for about $839 with bearing edges cut. Drilling for my hardware is $6.00 per lug, $60 for spurs, and $50 per floor for leg brackets. This doesn't count vent holes or finishing, but all said it would be around $1300 for a shell swap not counting finish, which I might just go with a clear poly coat or an alcohol based stain then coat. By the way, I swapped the 1.6mm hoops on my Stage Customs with 3mm hoops.

Alternatively, I could just buy another kit, but we all know ANYTHING new in the above sizes would be pricey for anything decent, i.e. DW, Ludwig, Pearl, etc. I sent a quote request to Noble & Cooley over the weekend, but no response just yet.

SO, any thoughts? Is the shell swap a dumb idea?

It's not blasphemy, cause it's a Stage Custom. They are a dime a dozen.

What you're talking about is doing a Keller build but using the Stage Custom's hardware on it. Sounds like an expensive way to get lugs and spurs honestly. And when you're done it might actually have less resale value than a regular Stage Custom. Such is the life of the Keller builder.

I get the idea, cause I'm a big DIY fan. Currently replacing the shell of a Ludwig Accent CS Custom snare with a Keller maple 10-ply (original shell is similar to the Stage Custom, all china birch). Next I may do the rest of the kit. But I got this kit so cheap, it's cheaper than buying the hardware separately, plus it has the classic Ludwig lugs that I like (well, the cheaper smaller ones similar to what the Neusonic has). Also, it already has 2.3mm hoops (hate 1.6mm).

I'm not really saving any money though, it's just a fun project for me. But there is a possibility I will not like the end result. I've built guitars and amps too in the past and that's always an unknown, you might think "this shell with this bearing edge is what I want", but you are really prototyping and the result may surprise you in any direction.

I'll say this, if you go ahead and do this, don't go thicker than 8-ply, or ideally get the Magnum 5-ply shells. 10-plies is fine for a snare, but makes for a bright and hard sounding kit IMHO. If the aim of switching to Maple is to get that extra bloom, you want those shells to be able to resonate.
And look into Nordic Shells as well, very DIY friendly newcomer with a huge product range. They don't do edges though so you have to do that yourself.

Also, don't underestimate the effort required for finishing it. Sure you can just rub a few coats of poly on it and call it a day. But after all the time and money spent on this project, do you really want something that look half assed? I've been working on my snare's finish for a week now (ebony stain, then multiple thin poly coats). It's really easy to mess it up, sanding a round shell is more complicated than I thought it would be.

Oh, and don't get a 22x20 bass drum, they just look silly and don't sound as good, my 2 cents :)
 
I just went ahead and bought a Pearl Masters Custom Maple....but I am a Pearl guy :cool:

so carry on...
 
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