Black Sabbath Feud

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
Has anybody noticed that there is a feud going on between Bill Ward and Ozzy? Here is Ward's latest post ripped from Facebook.

____________________________________________________

Bill addresses Ozzy's Facebook post.
1. You never wanted to discuss in a public forum. BUT, you did by making all these public comments during your interviews for the 13 album and tour. I was only responding in kind. Don’t forget why I spoke out. If you had talked to me and shared your opinions privately, we wouldn’t be here today.
2. I was ready and in shape to record. I knew I would need to get in better shape for the gigs –same as I have needed to do and have done in the past. I was beginning my workout regime to get “tour ready.” I knew what I needed to do to play the gigs, and I was confident I would be ready. I would not commit to an extensive tour without believing I could go all the way with it. I wouldn’t do that to our fans.
3. Shoulder Surgery. This was not a surgery that was an immediate necessity, or an emergency, or something that was prohibitive in terms of playing drums in Sabbath. It wasn’t anything like that. I would have elected to do the surgery after we finished touring, but since that didn’t come to pass, I scheduled it for the fall of 2013. My other surgery, yes was unexpected, but who among us knows what curve balls might be coming our way. Having had to recently cancel your own gigs, I think you could understand that and not hold someone to “what ifs”.
4. The “unsignable” contract isn’t a smokescreen – it’s the truth. I have been honest with our fans on where I stand. Your opinions of me are completely immaterial – they have nothing to do with my reason for not participating - the “unsignable” contract – that’s it. I wonder if I had signed it if any of this would have come up? I imagine we would have made an album and done a tour with the original line up in place.
Hey Oz,
It’s not going to work.
I can see you,
And, I read your statement.
Boy oh boy.
Well, I know I didn’t expect you to respond to my request of an apology. By the way, it’s pretty easy to go back and really look at what was truth and what was not.
I notice you’re including Tony and Geezer in being in full agreement, that with my health condition I couldn’t have played a two hour set with a drum solo. First time I’ve ever heard about a two hour show with a drum solo. But I’m asking you, not them. Why did you stay in the studio working with me? Why did we go to England for band rehearsals in August 2011? Why did we continue rehearsing in the Fall? Why did we make the announcement of 11/11/11? Why did you call me in late January 2012 asking me to come over to England to continue rehearsals? Why, if you thought I was so unhealthy, did you continue with me at all? You know why, Oz, because I was fine. I was playing. I was good to go.
I ran into no, zero, health problems until October 22nd 2013. Oz, I could have played my ass off in 2012, all the way through to October 22nd 2013. The shoulder operation was optional. It was quiet and I needed a wear and tear adjustment. I was fine. I could have gone without surgery. But listen to you, hitting back and hard, too.
I don’t believe a word of it. I am not an enemy. Eternity will show and serve as proof.
None of it, Oz.
I’m not going to own a fucking thing, other than I came into the studio initially overweight to tour, but not overweight to record. I was good to record. All of you know how much I put in, especially when I prepare to tour.
Your own anticipatory fear has got you by the balls. What fucking smokescreen, about an unsignable contract.
Yes, let’s get honest. I did.
It came out in my statement Wednesday, April 15, 2015.
I’m not playing (your quote). I never did. I don’t fuck with sincerity and honesty, period. I’ve done nothing but bring my truth to the fans. Man, you spin it real well. Sorry I can’t love you back, Oz. I put my love for you somewhere safe inside my heart in 2012 when your stories started showing up. It’s hard to love someone who thinks he’s telling the truth by making false claims, elitist comments and just plain rude statements.
It’ll show up, Oz, in your dreams, in your daily days. I’m clean and have nothing to feel doubtful about. All my actions have been of loyalty, honesty, and open-mindedness.
Stay safe old friend.
Sad we couldn’t roll it out for the fans one more time.
I read your speculation, and your what ifs, your doubts. I’m about as far away from being a victim as I am from Hell itself.
 

Acidline303

Senior Member
I follow a few metal rags on facebook, so I've been loosely reading about this debacle as it's blown up over the years.

Bill sounds fairly reasonable when he writes, and I think he chooses to go public with it because so many fans saw that the last tour wouldnt be the original lineup and started throwing around "millionaire crybaby" insults and swore off buying tickets.

It sounds like his hands were tied by a really unfair deal when it came to the last record and tour, and I would not be surprised at all if every single one of the retorts by Ozzy are authored by Sharon. She really has it out for that guy, whether he deserves it or not. People have probably already forgotten that she had Bill scrubbed from old photos of the band when they reissued them.

All biases in favor of drummers aside, the band is really getting up there in age and I'd imagine Tony, Geezer, and Ozzy simply enjoy having Tommy Clufetos there to drive the bulk of the shows energy. Bill might still be able to tour but it's a completely different visual feel with Tommy.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Am not a huge fan of Sabbath, but if I were, would have lost interest in a farewell tour that cuts out the drummer, for money. Really, at least two of them are not in great health, and should give it a rest.
It's just about good old money, milking it one more time.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
As much as I like Bill and hate to side with a singer over the drummer, Ozzy's got a point.

Had they agreed to terms with Bill, they would have had to have hired Tommy anyway to fill in or cancel shows because Bill has been in and out of the hospital since the split.

Bill's own words in September 2013 essentially say the things Ozzy is saying now:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bill-ward-on-ozzy-osbourne-ive-lost-a-friend-as-far-as-im-concerned/

Starting in September, 2013, I had a horrible illness, which I'm still recovering from, and it created some other things that I am still recovering from. That's one of the reasons why I didn't come to [my previously scheduled appearance in] Annapolis [for an art exhibition], you know. So aside from me now having to do a lot of work to gain my health and my strength back, you know, and I'd be the first to admit it if I can't cut it physically as a drummer, then my answer would be no. I would not be prepared to play with SABBATH, you know. I would never, ever, ever allude to being able to play with SABBATH if my health wasn't absolutely smack on. And my health right now is not bad, but it's not good enough to certainly play in any band, never mind BLACK SABBATH. I have to get a lot stronger than where I am. I lost a lot of weight. I've got to gain all my muscle back. I lost all my muscle.
So which is it Bill, were you healthy to do the tour as you claim now or were not healthy when you gave the interview in 2013?

And Bill missed a portion of the previous Sabbath reunion in 98 with a heart attack:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/1998/05/bill-ward-suffers-mild-heart-attack/

Bill Ward started experiencing pain in his chest. He was taken to the hospital, and it was discovered he had had a mild heart attack. Currently, he is resting, and is doing well. Bill has been told to not fly for 6 weeks, and of course, he can’t tour with Black Sabbath this spring in Europe.
Ozzy and Sharon certainly haven't treat Ward fairly in negotiations, and they should have handled this better, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
 

ron s

Senior Member
Sabbath is probably my favorite band of all time. I did get to see them on their first reunion tour with Bill Ward, and I was surprised that he played very well.
Unfortunately, it is common for drummers to get replaced as the band ages- look at Judas Priest, Blue Oyster Cult, Kiss, etc. The drums are a more physical instrument, and stamina is required to go on big time tour playing 3-4 shows per week.
The other thing is that most casual fans may not even know who the drummer is. We do, but most know the singer and maybe guitar player. So those that look at the profit to be made don't blink an eye at replacing the drummer or bass player (see- Van Halen)

I would not go see Sabbath without Bill Ward, just as I won't see Kiss with other guys posing as the original members.

Other than Led Zepplin- who has the integrity to call it quits when one member can't do a tour?
Look at the Who- still touring without Moon and Entwhistle-but charging tickets as "the Who". I heard that Ringo's kid is very good, but it's not the Who-??

I can't judge these guys- I have a hard time getting along with the guys in my cover band, I can only imagine if there were millions at stake.
I make my choices to buy a ticket or not- the success of these tours proves that the bands are quite popular without the original members.
I would question at what point do they become a tribute band with very good production values??
 

Acidline303

Senior Member
As much as I like Bill and hate to side with a singer over the drummer, Ozzy's got a point.

Had they agreed to terms with Bill, they would have had to have hired Tommy anyway to fill in or cancel shows because Bill has been in and out of the hospital since the split.

Bill's own words in September 2013 essentially say the things Ozzy is saying now:
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bill-ward-on-ozzy-osbourne-ive-lost-a-friend-as-far-as-im-concerned/



So which is it Bill, were you healthy to do the tour as you claim now or were not healthy when you gave the interview in 2013?

And Bill missed a portion of the previous Sabbath reunion in 98 with a heart attack:
http://www.black-sabbath.com/1998/05/bill-ward-suffers-mild-heart-attack/



Ozzy and Sharon certainly haven't treat Ward fairly in negotiations, and they should have handled this better, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

This is all very true. Though I think when it comes to calling this specific set of dates into question, Bill is saying he's more than recovered enough to handle the final set of shows. If it's the FINAL 3-4 Sabbath shows, I feel like the band should make every effort to put aside personal issues and get the original lineup in there. Go your own ways after.

You're correct. It seems like, in many cases, if a guitarist has to go to rehab for six months, or gets really sick, the whole train comes to a stop. A drummers falls ill and it's nothing but a convenient way for them to be cut from the roster. See: Jerome Dillon, David Silveria, Nick Menza, ect. Unless our playing IS the band's sound, we are all, unfortunately dispensable to the audience's ear.
 

T.Underhill

Pioneer Member
When one or several of the band members have stuck it out and kept up the ticket draw over the years they may choose to stick it to another, past member by the way of shitty contract.

The Eagles did it with Don Felder, KISS did it with Frehley/Criss when they reunited, many bands have done it. The draw is due largest to Ozzy, not Mr. Ward. Ozzy kept his recognition going since he left the band so that, in some people's opinion, entitle him to the lion's share of profit. They also know that people will pay to see Sabbath regardless of him playing drums or not, so they pay him a lot less.

If we could get a look at Chris Slade's contract for sitting in with AC/DC I'm sure it's a helluva lot less. And if Rudd EVER made it back into the band he'd get shit on too.
 

Acidline303

Senior Member
When one or several of the band members have stuck it out and kept up the ticket draw over the years they may choose to stick it to another, past member by the way of shitty contract.

The Eagles did it with Don Felder, KISS did it with Frehley/Criss when they reunited, many bands have done it. The draw is due largest to Ozzy, not Mr. Ward. Ozzy kept his recognition going since he left the band so that, in some people's opinion, entitle him to the lion's share of profit. They also know that people will pay to see Sabbath regardless of him playing drums or not, so they pay him a lot less.

If we could get a look at Chris Slade's contract for sitting in with AC/DC I'm sure it's a helluva lot less. And if Rudd EVER made it back into the band he'd get shit on too.

To that I would counter that the band is playing songs that all show the following credit "written by Iommi, Butler, Osbourne, Ward"

If it were judged by who "kept the band going" then Ozzy pretty much ranks lowest on that totem.

No one would debate who the most well known member of the band is, but if the audience for the last shows really only care about seeing Ozzy, then they could just as well buy a ticket to see him play War Pigs and Iron Man with his solo band like they did all through the 80's and 90s.
 

imtombstone

Senior Member
isnt this the kind of stuff that breaks up most bands?
always one who says it first.
" i make this band, it is nothing without me!"
even though it took them all to make it.
change one in the beginning
and who knows they might all be nobodays today!
edit !
without randy R
could have ozzy made a great comeback?
my 2 cents
I dont think so
 

T.Underhill

Pioneer Member
To that I would counter that the band is playing songs that all show the following credit "written by Iommi, Butler, Osbourne, Ward"

If it were judged by who "kept the band going" then Ozzy pretty much ranks lowest on that totem.

No one would debate who the most well known member of the band is, but if the audience for the last shows really only care about seeing Ozzy, then they could just as well buy a ticket to see him play War Pigs and Iron Man with his solo band like they did all through the 80's and 90s.
They'll go see them with or without Ward and they're playing their hand as such. I said he kept the recognition, not the band going, which he did. Their sales never matched the Ozzy era after he was gone.
 

Acidline303

Senior Member
funny enough. I believe there's a small rabid following of people who would rather pay to see Dio fronting Sabbath. hah.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
They're in for a long wait.
Very - most unfortunately :(

Is Tommy on drums for this tour? Given his history with Ozzy, he would be the natural fit. I was stageside for the second Ozzy tour after Ozzy got kicked out of Sabbath, so got to hear all the band gossip (especially over copious beers after the Liverpool Royal Court gig). Replacement drummers / bassists, & even retrospective false album credits litter Ozzy's past, so this Bill debacle is no surprise to me.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Replacement drummers / bassists, & even retrospective false album credits litter Ozzy's past, so this Bill debacle is no surprise to me.
But isn't it Sharon who does all of Ozzy's matters? He can't make a cup of coffee alone.

I saw them in the Dio years. Ozzy wasn't missed. If its a farewell tour, it just seems proper to have all 4 of them.
 

Axe

Senior Member
Sabbath is probably my favorite band of all time. I did get to see them on their first reunion tour with Bill Ward, and I was surprised that he played very well.
Unfortunately, it is common for drummers to get replaced as the band ages- look at Judas Priest, Blue Oyster Cult, Kiss, etc. The drums are a more physical instrument, and stamina is required to go on big time tour playing 3-4 shows per week.
The other thing is that most casual fans may not even know who the drummer is. We do, but most know the singer and maybe guitar player. So those that look at the profit to be made don't blink an eye at replacing the drummer or bass player (see- Van Halen)

I would not go see Sabbath without Bill Ward, just as I won't see Kiss with other guys posing as the original members.

Other than Led Zepplin- who has the integrity to call it quits when one member can't do a tour?
Look at the Who- still touring without Moon and Entwhistle-but charging tickets as "the Who". I heard that Ringo's kid is very good, but it's not the Who-??

I can't judge these guys- I have a hard time getting along with the guys in my cover band, I can only imagine if there were millions at stake.
I make my choices to buy a ticket or not- the success of these tours proves that the bands are quite popular without the original members.
I would question at what point do they become a tribute band with very good production values??
I love Sabbath without Ozzy, so I have zero interest in any of this - but seriously, can Bill even play any more?

And about your KISS comments - it bothers you that grown men in their 50s wear other gtown men's (who are now in their 60s) makeup? Odd. Singer buries Noodle Arms, and Paul and Gene wrote all the great songs. You're not making quite the statement you think youre making.
 

ron s

Senior Member
I love Sabbath without Ozzy, so I have zero interest in any of this - but seriously, can Bill even play any more?

And about your KISS comments - it bothers you that grown men in their 50s wear other gtown men's (who are now in their 60s) makeup? Odd. Singer buries Noodle Arms, and Paul and Gene wrote all the great songs. You're not making quite the statement you think youre making.
I saw Sabbath twice on the last Heaven and Hell tour and they were great with Dio and Appice. They played songs from the Dio albums and the new stuff they had put out with Dio, so it was wholly appropriate. Fans knew what to expect and they all played well.

Ward played very well on the reunion tour date that I saw in Boston. I think that was in the mid 90's. I don't know how he plays now.
I did say in my post that drummers sometimes get replaced because of the physicality of the position vs singers/guitar players. Age seems to catch up with drummers a bit more quickly.

as for my comments on Kiss- I am just using them as an example of my own choices- you buy a ticket and see the current touring lineup, or you don't.
It is my choice that if all the original members are alive and well, I may not want to pay to see someone else playing their parts.
yes - Eric Singer is a better drummer than Peter Criss- but Criss is close to 70 years old.
I am not trying to "make a statement"- just adding my opinion on the topic of bands playing without their original members. Not sure what you meant by that comment.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
- but seriously, can Bill even play any more?
.
Which is what this boils down to.

The question of was Ward offered a fair share of money has been thrown around, but that's not what any off Ozzy's comments have been about.

There was a previous interview with Ozzy where he essentially said the same things about Ward not cutting it in rehearsals and struggling to remember the songs. Yet Ward said it was about the money, and didn't comment about that interview.

Although Ozzy himself isn't much better, given all he does in concert anymore is stand there and read a teleprompter, even though he just sings the same few songs on every tour.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Here is the previous article from 2013:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ozzy-osbourne-bill-ward-overweight/

August 5, 2013

Last week, Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward disputed Ozzy Osbourne‘s claims that Ward’s physical problems were the main reason he wasn’t part of Sabbath’s reunion. Instead, Bill said, there was a contractual dispute.

“I don’t think he could have done the gig, to be honest. He’s incredibly overweight,” Osbourne told the NY Daily News. “A drummer has to be in shape. He’s already had two heart attacks. I don’t want to be responsible for his life.”
Previously, Ozzy publicly questioned Bill’s mental faculties, telling a British music magazine that during initial rehearsals for the reunion tour, Ward had a bunch of Post-It notes all over his drums. When Osbourne asked what they were for, Bill allegedly replied that he needed them to remember what he was doing.

“But he didn’t come clean and say, ‘I can’t cut this gig, but can we work something out, guys, where I’ll come on but with another drummer backing me up?’ Or, ‘I’ll come and play a few songs,’” Ozzy added. “That would have been cool.”
 
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