black beauty question

does a new black beauty have 2.3 or 1.6 hoops? also, do the new bb still have the rubber gaskets under the imperial lugs?
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
The hoops have been hard to get a handle on. I'm sure I've read that Ludwig's switch to 2.3 hoops is a partial cause of the "lug splay" issue that is an endless source of conversation. Yet everyone seems to continue to refer to the 1.6 hoops. As I've been unable to find that article again, I'm left unsure myself. I think they're probably 2.3.......but I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong if someone can put up some evidence to the contrary.

Yep, they still put rubber gaskets under the lugs. They are easy to take off if it bothers you though.
 

session

Junior Member
Unfortunately they come with 1.6. I recently bought one new and that's what it came with. I plan on picking up some 2.3's for a strong cross stick.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Remo SA-0314-TD snare side head.

My Supra and Black Beauty both have the newer P-33 die cast butt plates and the reso head collar on both Ambassador hazy and Evan hazy 300s were mashing up again the butt plates on both drums, and this was before the heads were tensioned up as much as I wanted them.

Just got these new heads Friday and put them on, tuned the drums up, and... well, that's how they're supposed to sound. Not sure why Ludwig has to be so thoughtless about their shell mounted hardware, but I'm pretty used to them annoying me with their myriad of drum flaws by now.

If I want to use any other reso head, I'll have to drill new holes to raise the butt plates up a cm or so.

Thanks to Karl Crafton for turning me on to these collarless heads - and I had to order them as none of the stores around me carry them. Thanks Ludwig! ┌∩┐
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Remo SA-0314-TD snare side head.

My Supra and Black Beauty both have the newer P-33 die cast butt plates and the reso head collar on both Ambassador hazy and Evan hazy 300s were mashing up again the butt plates on both drums, and this was before the heads were tensioned up as much as I wanted them.

Just got these new heads Friday and put them on, tuned the drums up, and... well, that's how they're supposed to sound. Not sure why Ludwig has to be so thoughtless about their shell mounted hardware, but I'm pretty used to them annoying me with their myriad of drum flaws by now.

If I want to use any other reso head, I'll have to drill new holes to raise the butt plates up a cm or so.

Thanks to Karl Crafton for turning me on to these collarless heads - and I had to order them as none of the stores around me carry them. Thanks Ludwig! ┌∩┐
You must crank your reso pretty tight. I still have about a half inch between my head collar, and the butt plate, on my Black Beauty.
 
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steverok

Silver Member
My Supra and Black Beauty both have the newer P-33 die cast butt plates and the reso head collar on both Ambassador hazy and Evan hazy 300s were mashing up again the butt plates on both drums, and this was before the heads were tensioned up as much as I wanted them.

Hmm, I haven't noticed this, and like you, I own a new Supra and BB. Will check on this. In the meantime, you would be much better off switching to the old P32 plate rather than drilling into your drum.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
The COB I got last year has 2.3's and gaskets.
I believe the 402, and 6.5 Acro I got in '09 had 2.3's as well. The rims never seemed "thin" or ever got a weak rimshot or cross stick sound, but I sold the 2 drums, and can't look now...
Also had gaskets.
I took the gaskets off all-- I just liked the sound better without the gaskets.

I like the no-collar head because I do have the SS head pretty tight. It's actually listed under the Marching heading, and it's got a crimped collar.
Just worked out that a tight SS head gets the sound I like with the batter tension and sound I want.

I found that Remo head had a sound I liked better than the Ludwig head, and it didn't have a chance of getting in the way of the butt plate.
I agree, the butt plate does need to come up a bit.

I "like" the sound of the regular hazy Remo head (that all stores carry), but the no collar head has a cleaner sound to it (to me), and is real sensitive.

Lucky me, the guy at the shop really digs that SS head (he told me about them) so they stock it.
 

steverok

Silver Member
You must crank your reso pretty tight. I still have about a half inch between my head collar, and the butt plate, on my Black Beauty.

You're probably referring to the stock Ludwig head. I have a Remo head on mine, and after checking, its collar is very close to "butting up" against the butt. Just ordered me two of these special heads listed here. Drums are a constant money sink-hole !
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Yes I have the stock heads on. I am actually looking to get some of those Ludwig heads for some of my other snares. I love the sound and feel of them.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
I'm pretty sure the newer BB's come with 2.3mm hoops.Its doesn't make the drum better,just different.There's nothing wrong with 1.6mm hoops,as they were the industry standard till the mid 80's.Thats when drum companies were claiming 2.3 mm hoops were superior to 1.6mm.Horse hocky.Just plain marketing nonsence.There is a slight difference in sound,but 1.6mm is NOT inferior,just not as thick.

I have 1.6 on almost all of my vintage drums,including my 65 Acro,which I have been playing since I got it.....in 65.Both rims are just fine,and I hit on the hard side,not animal break 500 bucks worth of gear a year,but hard.

Steve B
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
The hoops do have a shorter hight to them above the head, than all my other hoops I have.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
In the meantime, you would be much better off switching to the old P32 plate rather than drilling into your drum.
Agreed. Drilling into the shell for that purpose seems sacrilegious, so I would switch to a P-32 before reaching for the drill.
 

paistemage

Senior Member
Never played a joyful noise.

Played a OLD 60's BLack beauty in the studio. I offered the guy 3,000 for it, he wouldn't sell. You have heard a black beauty if you listened to music in the last 50 years.

Those joyful noise drums sound like they would be good. They mightb e amazing, I would have to play one.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Remo SA-0314-TD snare side head.

Thanks Ludwig! ┌∩┐

I remember Zambizzi had the same problem with the butt plate of his BB. It's a strange one. What idiot would mount it so low you can't get a head on? I wonder if they changed the drilling specs? I've always had a SS Ambassador on all my Luddy snares and have no problems with butt plate interference when cranking the SS head on any of them..

[I like "the bird" too!!]

The COB I got last year has 2.3's and gaskets.
I believe the 402, and 6.5 Acro I got in '09 had 2.3's as well.

I'm pretty sure the newer BB's come with 2.3mm hoops

Glad you blokes chimed in. I was sure I've read they've been 2.3 for some time but couldn't find it again to post in this thread.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Never played a joyful noise.

Played a OLD 60's BLack beauty in the studio. I offered the guy 3,000 for it, he wouldn't sell. You have heard a black beauty if you listened to music in the last 50 years.

Those joyful noise drums sound like they would be good. They mightb e amazing, I would have to play one.

Just a point of information..Ludwig stopped making the black beauty in 1940.They only started production again in 1979.I don't know what that drum was,but if it was black,it was made prior to 1940.The only brass snares they were making were after then,were the Super ludwig 400/402,and a few very rare surersensitive drums,which were either Chrome over brass,or lacquered brass,not black nickel over brass.Ludwig stopped production of those drums in 1963.In the early 70's Ludwig made a very short run of supraphonics and a very few supersensitives,with brass shells,and B/O cut badges.

Steve B
 
ok, so the drum showed up the other day and they shipped a LB417T, tube lugs. anyhow, i measured the hoops against my Pearl 2.3 hoops with a micrometer and they are they same.
 
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