Best Female Drummer?

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
wow! i've just seen something i've never seen on this forum. two female drummers discussing drumming among themselves. that almost never happens!
Yea, What's up with that!
This is wonderful. We need to have more of this around here.
This way we men can do what we usually do when we are around talking women.
We simply go to the bar and we get a stiff drink!
Just kidding!
You girls know that I really don't feel that way. Well, If one of you just happens to be my wife... That's a different story. ;)
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I'm a little late to this party. I can't pick any best musician, because it's all apples and oranges.
I find the whole Meg thing very entertaining. It's very revealing, psychologically speaking. My take is there is a strong faction of people who seem to feel that simple drumming is not worthy of acclaim at all.

I can't believe how far off the mark that shot is.

I think it takes a great deal of maturity not to blow chops all over the place. Especially on the drumset. And who here has heard Meg on other than record? Who here can speak intelligently about how she plays when she's not on a WS gig?

But my real sticking point is that you can't be considered a "great" drummer unless you can play 32nd notes at 200 BPM with your forehead.

What about taste, restraint, musicality, and distilling the very soul of a beat into as little notes as possible, then play those distilled notes with fierce conviction? A large percentage of guitarists and drummers, from my observations, feel that any musical space MUST be filled with something. Anyone who is secure enough to let a musical space go unfilled is a more mature player in my mind than someone who just can't resist.

Wasn't Miles Davis that kind of player? Very musical and restrained? Hearing all the notes but playing only the best ones? Moving beyond the chops onto a higher plane of musicality?

It doesn't matter to me if the person can blow chops but chooses not to, or if the person doesn't have chops and leaves space as a function of their not being able to chop it all up. Either way, musical space sounds awesome. It gives the listener a place to contemplate instead of force feeding notes.

Anyone who is upset by another's success...would benefit from turning their focus 180 degrees. I think Meg is inspiring. She proved that drumming gymnastics don't even have to be considered to acheive musicality. Guys try way too hard sometimes. We think that we have to play to exhaustion, and if were not playing close to the top of our physical capabilities, then we're not playing the best part for the song. That's wrong on so many levels. Just relax, check the ego, shut the mouth, open the ears and brain, and play what the song is begging for, not what you are capable of. Truly, the best things in life are really very simple. Best advice I ever got, if you're working TOO hard, you're doing something wrong.

Re: a feminine way to hit things w/ sticks...

I think the big difference between the 2 sexes is the approach to the instrument.
Generally speaking, guys have a hard time just playing at 10% of what they are capable of, which is a requirement for many types of popular music. I know when I am just keeping time, I used to feel like, "this is boring, I should be doing something more". I found out through playback, that's a very damaging self doubting thought to have. It counters confidence, one of the very best things a drummer can posess. Keeping time is an exercise in inner security. Making time feel really good is a real art, and just as accomplished as a Mike Portnoy assault of notes. (Just using him as an example)

Just keeping uncluttered time works for a drum part virtually everytime. You just can't say that about a drum part that uses 5x as many notes as necessary. It's more important to listen and try and feel which rhythm or beat best soothes the music, rather than..."Hmm I know I can squeeze in a 16th note triplet roll down the toms and end with a really unexpected flam tap in this upcoming space. Wrong motivation, very selfish, and nearsighted.
That's putting the drummer before the song, a very common sight.
Rock on Meg. Bashing others sucess only serves to lower others opinions of the basher, everytime. The Ginger thread supports that statement.

On a lighter note, Bob! I can't believe you said that about Thaard. I'm on Thaards side here you big bully! He's all man! Don't make us come up there! I swear, tractor or not, we WILL take ALL your lunch money AND give you an atomic wedgie, right Thaard?
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
I can't believe how far off the mark that shot is.

I think it takes a great deal of maturity not to blow chops all over the place. Especially on the drumset. And who here has heard Meg on other than record? Who here can speak intelligently about how she plays when she's not on a WS gig?
I can. I used to live in the Detroit area and I saw/heard the other stuff and heard the talk. But as previously mentioned, she's been cool with other players and has found her place in the world. So who am I to judge or complain?

But my real sticking point is that you can't be considered a "great" drummer unless you can play 32nd notes at 200 BPM with your forehead.
What about taste, restraint, musicality, and distilling the very soul of a beat into as little notes as possible, then play those distilled notes with fierce conviction? A large percentage of guitarists and drummers, from my observations, feel that any musical space MUST be filled with something. Anyone who is secure enough to let a musical space go unfilled is a more mature player in my mind than someone who just can't resist.?
Larry I know your argument is a sincere one, but may I be so blunt as to ask people to consider the pov that people really do have to develop chops to restrain them, while every bit of that is tied into the musicality issue. Not developing the minimal technique to perform then calling it a musicality issue is just bad playing claiming it's something else at the expense of the real thing. I remember someone on this forum commenting with disdain how Peter Erskine had once said You have to develop chops not to use them.He called Erskine arrogant, while all along I was wondering why no one considered how that guy not at least considering Erskine's words was the actual arrogance at play.

Wasn't Miles Davis that kind of player? Very musical and restrained? Hearing all the notes but playing only the best ones? Moving beyond the chops onto a higher plane of musicality? It doesn't matter to me if the person can blow chops but chooses not to, or if the person doesn't have chops and leaves space as a function of their not being able to chop it all up. Either way, musical space sounds awesome. It gives the listener a place to contemplate instead of force feeding notes.
Miles Davis had serious technique before he decided to no longer appear to use it. All one has to do is listen to his 1949 Paris recordings with Kenny Clarke to hear that the 23 year old Miles could do as convincing a Dizzy Gillespie impersonation as anyone out there. But when he held back in those famous recordings 10 years later, you could hear as much energy in the spaces as when he used to play notes in them. I think part of the magic with Steve Gadd is based on that identical principle. We all know that Gadd has chops. But people can feel that energy and pulse in his simplicity. That only came from a very long time working on technique, because that in of itself is a form of highest magnitude technique. Personally I find it perplexing that few consider how space must retain the same amount of energy to be musical and how the only way that space projects energy is because that same player learned how to create energy in that space from all the years he spent filling it up. I just think it's all related.

See this is exactly what I think Erskine was trying to say and what in a more inept way I've tried to say from the moment I joined this forum. Quite often ego has absolutely nothing to do with developing chops, although I am aware that is often one of the places some like to travel on the other end of that discussion.

And can we please settle one thing once and for all by confirming that there are really times when a lot of notes are yes///very musical.

As far as the women play different thing, I find it very interesting how all that on this forum falls not so much along gedner lines as generational. Personally if I were to go to a 20 year old female colleague and told her that men approach their musical instruments differently because of gender I would be punched in the mouth and called ridiculous. I have noticed with keen interest how the over 40 year old members here see that so much differently.
 
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motojt

Guest
Larry, your post made me realize I didn't throw out my favorite (i don't do the whole best/worst thing) chick drummer. I really dig Florrie Arnold. She rocks her ass off and comes complete with SDF (Stupid Drummer Face).

@matt, I'd say the 20 year old female colleague who'd punch you in the mouth is sexist or, at the very least, inexperienced. It's illogical to think that men and women approach things in a different way, music included. It's not politics, man, it's biology. By the way, I'm barely 30 in case you want to stick me in the 40 something group. ;)
 

bigd

Silver Member
As far as the women play different thing, I find it very interesting how all that on this forum falls not so much along gedner lines as generational. Personally if I were to go to a 20 year old female colleague and told her that men approach their musical instruments differently because of gender I would be punched in the mouth and called ridiculous. I have noticed with keen interest how the over 40 year old members here see that so much differently.


Matt,

I know you're quite young but you speak with great experience. In any musical institution you will find great female percussionists. You are totally correct you'd get punched if you insulted them in the way the posts on here have read. Go to Eastman or Ithaca or Juilliard or Manhattan and tell the girls they don't approach the instrument like the men. Then stand back while you get schooled. Also look at the great female players in America's major orchestras or sitting at many of the US's leading university's/colleges who are teaching. They'd play the people around here under the table. My son is 14 and a classical player. He's been schooled from the start that there are MONSTER girl players out there and to respect and learn from them. He plays with one in his youth orchestra.
 
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motojt

Guest
Why do you phrase it that way? Why does a woman have to approach it like a man? Why can't a man not approach it like a woman? I find it odd that a man is arguing with a woman about her experience as a woman. Do you honestly believe men and women are identical physically and mentally? If you're married you might not want to tell your wife about that opinion.

I don't think the women here (or i) are debating that women can or can not be as good or talented as a man, just that they are different. Besides, best and worst is 100% subjective. I think Keith Moon was a crappy drummer. Others think he's great. It's subjective. You can gauge the speed at which he could do a roll or how well he kept time or how consistent he was or was not or how many records his band sold. You can't gauge whether he was good or bad. All you can do is take an opinion poll.
 
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motojt

Guest
I've been thinking about this whole male vs female thing and I realized something interesting. Try to read this with an open mind.

The whole Juilliard argument doesn't work because these women have been trained to follow guidelines set by men and/or other women who were inspired by and/or trained by men. Left to their own devices, uninfluenced by outside forces, would they perform differently?

I realized a good example is right in front of me, albeit of admittedly limited scope. My wife, daughter, sisters in-law, and even my mom have played my kit on occasion, as have my son, brothers in-law, and nephews. None of them trained or coached ever in heir lives. All like different music styles with some overlap of course. The females all favored similar drums and played very similarly. They favor the hi-hat, snare, and floor tom. They all play calmly and lightly and seldom touch the other cymbals. The males, on the other hand favor the bass drum, snare, and all the cymbals. They bash away at full strength making as much noise as possible. Coincidentally, they behave similarly when they pick up my guitars. The women slowly change notes and strum, while the boys tend to hold a single chord and pound out a wall of noise.

Clearly I'm talking about nature vs nurture here. Obviously this could just be limited to what I've seen and others' mileage may vary. However, thinking of Pollyanna's experience with most women shying away from the big, scary, loud drums while every guy I know wants to sit down and bang on my kit, it all fits. Yes, every person is different and has their own taste, but chemically and biologically men and women are different.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Men and women approach things the same way? Hope you guys are catching up on your chick lit and chick flicks! May I recommend Anita Blake vampire hunter for some fabulously trashy and imaginative chick lit ... complete with super-sexy Jean Claude, Anita's master vampire lover.

Guys and gals - two peas in a pod, eh? I know you guys will get off on some hot relationship reading to unwind when you don't feel like engaging brain. We're all the same, right?

There are some general differences in the way we approach things, especially in regard to ego and approach to relationships with peers, to which Larry alluded. It's noted in all the management literature. Why would these differences not be reflected in drumming?

Saying women and men are the same in our approach is akin saying natural talent doesn't mean anything, the old behaviourist hypothesis that we're born blank slates and subsequent experience is all.

I've lived too long and seen too much to go for this level playing field stuff.

All these gaps (eg. gender, talent) can be closed significantly with experience, yes.

Men have feminine aspects and women have masculine aspects, yes.

These aspects vary in degree and some overlap, so you will have a percentage of women who are more masculine in approach than some men, yes.

At the high end of art do gender differences tend to disappear? Yes.

Does this change general overarching tendencies? No. For the record, the video about Evelyn Glennie amazed me - she is an inspiration. These differences are especially apparent in the lower and mid levels of art.
 
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JPW

Silver Member
See this is exactly what I think Erskine was trying to say and what in a more inept way I've tried to say from the moment I joined this forum. Quite often ego has absolutely nothing to do with developing chops, although I am aware that is often one of the places some like to travel on the other end of that discussion.
The more I have talked about technique and it's purpose with older jazz guys it really does come down to what Erskine propably was trying to say. When you are young you should try to FIRST fill up the whole rythmic space. Play as many notes as possible as perfect as possible. And then for the rest of your life you should try to minimize the notes you play. But most people just refer to Miles Davis and say "he played only one note and it was perfect, we should strive for simplicity". Well Miles had his 'notey' era for sure. Every great player on every instrument has had it (please prove me wrong). So there is a HUGE correlation at least.

To put it simply, if I know exactly where the next 32nd note from the quarter note pulse is, doesn't that make me that much tighter as a player? Isn't simplicity all about microtiming and ability to hear as many subdivisions as possible without actually playing them?

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think everyone has to compete in WFD to be able to have the chops. Some people learn their chops in more 'secret' manner. But have all these guys who have dedicated insane amounts of time to develope their hands and feet to very high standards made a huge mistake? I don't think so, if they just don't leave it at that. If they use it to be creative. And for example Matt has done exactly that.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
Re; Male vs. Female approaches.

Well guys there are also cultural issues here at play. In the US, 90% of all the schooled drummers prepare for marching band drumline. They engage in this prep the exact same way and are required to exhibit identical technique, approach and physical standards. Let's understand this before we go any farther. I didn't say reasonably identical gender based standard. I said IDENTICAL. Now maybe this is just a US thing based on our own very unique percussion traditions /seeing as how most non Americans have no way to even assume the marching band experience/ but I challenge anyone thinking they can tell the difference between a male and female approach to pick from behind a curtain the male or female player from a drumline. You won't be able to do it. And all of you here from those drumlines know I'm dead on here.

This also goes back to my generational premise. The DCI corps phenomenon that started this whole extreme uniformity thing didn't really catch on until the late 70s. I am of course aware that marching band existed before 1980, but it really wasn't the same thing as this. So if you're over 40 this is something totally off your radar, although it probably applies to most of the under 40 female drummers on this forum and 100% of all those who ever played in US school band.

If your drumline isn't identical in a high school drumline, then your drumline gets a lower score at Saturday comps. And if you're in one of those bands that is entirely unacceptable. The drumline judge who is often walking within 2 meters of your line on the field observing your every move does not see males and females. He/she expects to see a drumline with identical technique. That includes identical strength and approach. In fact when you're a member of a line you don't even see anything based on gender. And if you do that person's time on a line will be very short. However, it's been my experience to notice that most of the washouts are men anyway.

I think sometimes we like to think of every drumming issue as kit related when in North America for example most school aged people don't even see the kit as their #1 method of approaching a drum. And when you're talking about upwards of 2.5 million American drumline members with a good 500,000 being female, then that's a little too large a number to be called an exception. In fact that would most likely constitute the overwhelming majority of all female drummers in North America, and a larger number than exists of most combined drumming populations of most of the individual countries on the Earth.

You're right mojojt when you ask: Left to their own devices, uninfluenced by outside forces, would they perform differently?

However, it's probably a moot point when you're talking about these kinds of numbers. And over time when an equal number of female marching drumline instructors assume the landscape /as is already happening anyway/ then what will truly be the difference?---seeing as how the technical approaches based on the universally agreed upon standard will be identical.
 
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JPW

Silver Member
Re; Male vs. Female approaches.

Well guys there are also cultural issues here at play. In the US, 90% of all the schooled drummers prepare for marching band drumline. They engage in this prep the exact same way and are required to exhibit identical technique, approach and physical standards. Let's understand this before we go any farther. I didn't say reasonably identical gender based standard. I said IDENTICAL. Now maybe this is just a US thing based on our own very unique percussion traditions /seeing as how most non Americans have no way to even assume the marching band experience/ but I challenge anyone thinking they can tell the difference between a male and female approach to pick from behind a curtain the male or female player from a drumline. You won't be able to do it. And all of you here from those drumlines know I'm dead on here.
Good point about drumlines, but may I extend it even further and point out that even if I wanted to, I coulnd't join a drumline here in Finland (as far as I know, we don't have any). So I have had to practice my rudiments all on my own at older age. Where some of the drumline guys (and girls) in the US and even Europe have a really good technical foundation at a very young age.

I would like to know if there are more or less female drummers (as drumset players) here than in those countries that have drumlines.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
The more I have talked about technique and it's purpose with older jazz guys it really does come down to what Erskine propably was trying to say. When you are young you should try to FIRST fill up the whole rythmic space. Play as many notes as possible as perfect as possible. And then for the rest of your life you should try to minimize the notes you play. But most people just refer to Miles Davis and say "he played only one note and it was perfect, we should strive for simplicity". Well Miles had his 'notey' era for sure. Every great player on every instrument has had it (please prove me wrong). So there is a HUGE correlation at least.

To put it simply, if I know exactly where the next 32nd note from the quarter note pulse is, doesn't that make me that much tighter as a player? Isn't simplicity all about microtiming and ability to hear as many subdivisions as possible without actually playing them?

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think everyone has to compete in WFD to be able to have the chops. Some people learn their chops in more 'secret' manner. But have all these guys who have dedicated insane amounts of time to develope their hands and feet to very high standards made a huge mistake? I don't think so, if they just don't leave it at that. If they use it to be creative. And for example Matt has done exactly that.
Thank you so much for making a point in spades I've been trying to make for years.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Man what great stuff here. Motojt said some really great highly intelligent stuff. Ditto JPW. I was out gigging and missed this, but I wanted to comment to Matt.
Matt, your last post quoting me seemed to counter what I had said, yet I agreed with every single thing you said. It's all spot on. After sitting with that all night, I realized that we serve different masters. I play predominantly blues based stuff, and the idea in my world is to distill distill distill, whereas in your world you are way more free to flesh out rhythmically dense ideas where appropriate, 2 opposite approaches from where I'm sitting.

I've always said that with music, there's room for everyone. Our worlds require different diciplines. I have so much respect for the way you play, I envy your position in the echelons of which you are a part of, and really have no clue of the life and times of a true full time pro musician, let alone a jazz musician. We are diametrically opposed musically I think, with our chosen directions. And that is OK. I feel lucky to get to see what's inside your head, because some of the stuff you say is just so deep and far beyond your years. I couldn't touch what you do, and my norm doesn't resonate in your world. We're like trains going in different directions.

Anyway, your posts are really enlightening, and very thought provoking. Without them, I would be even more clueless as to what it's like to run in your circles. Your musical truths always provide me with POV I just can't see, so thanks for taking the time to illuminate.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
Matt, your last post quoting me seemed to counter what I had said, yet I agreed with every single thing you said. It's all spot on. After sitting with that all night, I realized that we serve different masters. I play predominantly blues based stuff, and the idea in my world is to distill distill distill, whereas in your world you are way more free to flesh out rhythmically dense ideas where appropriate, 2 opposite approaches from where I'm sitting.

I've always said that with music, there's room for everyone. Our worlds require different diciplines. I have so much respect for the way you play, I envy your position in the echelons of which you are a part of, and really have no clue of the life and times of a true full time pro musician, let alone a jazz musician. We are diametrically opposed musically I think, with our chosen directions. And that is OK. I feel lucky to get to see what's inside your head, because some of the stuff you say is just so deep and far beyond your years. I couldn't touch what you do, and my norm doesn't resonate in your world. We're like trains going in different directions.
Larry, I wasn't trying to single you out or anything. I am aware that a whole lot of people see it exactly as you do. I know you're a good guy around here.

I was only trying to justify the fill it up before you know how not to philosophy because I think that's often misunderstood to the point of some /never you/ ridiculing it at the expense of seeing things as they probably really are.

But again/and not really wanting to hijack this thread/ I did want to present the idea that we actually don't do anything from a different perspective. I also now work on distilling, but in my case I wanted to have soething to distill first. As some know I currently play in a relatively popular originals organic pop band where simple drumming is the whole thing. I now find it hilarious how I'm complimented for my uncluttered simple pocket. Well if I've got this skill now it came from developing chops in the early going, except that now I can probably also draw on the chops too and will when needed and yes wanted.

All I've ever asked is why does it always have to be either- or?- when you can count on one hand the number of times when somebody didn't have one without the other.

After all Larry, didn't even you have a technical obsession period. when you first came here you were talking about joining WFD. Am I right? I also remember being one of those who supported all that. So it seems like everyone goes through this, and not always for the wrong reasons.
 
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Andy

Administrator
Staff member
The last few posts from Larry, Matt & JPW are interesting to say the least. Guy's coming from different places, & heading in different places, agreeing there's merit in alternative approaches & POV's. I like that. In some ways I fall between the POV's, in other ways, I empathise completely with the individual perspective. To realise that there is no best, no rules, & certainly no correct path, is an empowering thing. That said, the realization that a certain standard of foundation is necessary to ensure musical choices are made with full knowledge of all the options, really underscores the whole subject of interpretation. My world these days is more akin to Larry. My world 30 years ago was more akin to Matt, although in polar opposite genre & industry approach.

My training was also very different to most, & this brings me back towards the OP. I was taught by a well regarded female classical percussionist. She was in her 70's when she started to tutor me. I had the blessing of her attention for four years until I left school at age 16. She was a chops master in the classical mode. To her, everything was technique, interpretation didn't exist. The dots issued instruction & any interpretation was exclusively a matter for the conductor. On the day of my last lesson, she walked in with a JB style kit. Up until this point, I'd only played snare, tubular bells & timpani. She set the kit up, I expected a classical piece, or maybe if I was lucky, a trad jazz session. What she delivered was 15 minutes of pure hard rock. My jaw hit the floor. A 90lb old lady blasting out some of the most punchy, dynamic & accurate rock drumming I've ever heard (even to this day). Her parting words to me were, "smile from the inside when you play, & keep it simple". She profoundly affected my perspective on drumming then, & continues to do so now. So are female drummers fundamentally different to their male counterparts? Well, in my experience, yes. I think the girls are far less testosterone driven, have less of a power trip mentality, & generally more likely to serve the music than their own ego.

Matt, you once commented that I was absolutist in my opinions. I couldn't be bothered to refute that at the time, but I will now. I'm very accepting of different approaches. Yes, I believe that simple generally serves the music better, but not always. Yes, I accept there's a huge difference between those that choose simple because of lack of ability, & those that choose simple on the back of genuine choice. What I dislike is the assumption that there is only one path to creating good music & that those who don't earn their living playing drums have little to offer. I know from my own experiences, that I have more to offer the creation of music now as a hobbyist, than I ever did as a much younger pro for 5 years. I hugely enjoy watching the skills of players who've clearly put decades of hard work into their craft. Equally, I adore a simple yet perfectly placed groove, played by an inexperienced drummer who's a bit rough around the edges, but delivered with real passion & soul. I don't regard the above selection of views as being abolutist.

Matt, I bombed out of the business after only 5 years. There were good reasons for that at the time. I get the impression you're in this for the long run, & you're probably much more success focussed than I was in my day. I really hope it works out for you, & my gut feeling is that it will. At the same time, I too am in a happy place. I get to play without the commercial pressure that took the fun out of it first time around, I have great bandmates, & I enjoy my simple music. What's more, the big unexpected bonus is that other people seem to enjoy what I do too. So we're both in a happy place, & we both have a valid opinion, just depends who's listening. Same thing with Larry. He's a great blues player IMO. I love his stuff, he mostly hates mine, but that's cool. His opinion & perspective is just as valid & valuable as anyone else's. I don't recognise a hierarchical approach, just as I dont place the opinion of one audience member above another, just as I would never judge a player on their choice of genre or their sex.

To attempt to identify the best female drummer is about as pointless as trying to identify the best drummer. There is no best.
 

JPW

Silver Member
After all Larry, didn't even you have a technical obsession period. when you first came here you were talking about joining WFD. Am I right? I also remember being one of those who supported all that. So it seems like everyone goes through this, and not always for the wrong reasons.
This is very interesting. First larryace himself speaks about 'distilling' and now you know this from his past. So we are just saying the same things with different words. I don't think larryace is in different track at all. He just decided it's time to change direction earlier than me and matt.

It's just that different people have different standards when they start this 'distilling' thing. I think me and matt are the sort of guys who have decided quite early on (on the musical career, I'm not as young as matt) that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life and this is what I need to do to get there. I can quite honestly say I can focus for couple of years on purely on the technical side of things if I know it's just a very marginal part of the bigger musical joyrney which will hopefully last for the rest of my life and I know where to go from there. I'm not in this music thing for the technique, but it's the first step.

I have a feeling that too many times we are speaking _only_ from the perspective we are currently in our _own_ personal musical joyrney. I'll make a mental note now that if I ever am speaking of the beauty of the simple beats I play (when I'm 20 years older) I make sure to remind what I did to get there. (remember when I said half jokingly I have a vision to be like Steve Gadd when I'm as old as he is now. there's a point to it though.)
 

bonzolead

Platinum Member
I'm a good drummer but when I see Cindy Blackman or Sheila E I'd better check myself before I wreak myself LMAO


Bonzolead
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Loving this thread. I would like to make a few statements to clarify my position.
Regarding Meg White, the only thing that gets my goat is people trash her for no valid reason. I'll concede that her skills, when you compare her to a real virtuoso on the instrument, are fairly elementary. But she doesn't deserve to be flamed, in fact, to me she did quite a lot with quite a little, very respectable. I'm referring to her commercial success and the inspiration she provides for female drummers. Good for her!
I never felt singled out at all by you Matt, I didn't take any comments in a negative way, not at all. You have a perspective here that is much deeper on just about every level than a part timer like me. It is natural that when I say something and you have an example from your world that sheds more light on my take on things that you would want to put it out there, and I for one am richer for it.
I didn't know you were playing in an original pop band. I have to admit that I am way curious to hear some of that. I'm incapable of being less than 100% honest about my perceptions, ask KIS ha ha (dude I do NOT hate your playing you crazy nut) Your comments about having something to distill is awesome, and is thought provoking.

Re: WFD...Yes you are correct I had entertained the thought of trying to compete. My main motivation for doing so was my crappy single stroke roll. I wanted to have a killer single stroke roll, so I started focusing on that, and in doing so, thought, well why not try to do it as good as it possibly can be done? I was able to almost match the speed of the winners, but was never able to maintain it for more than a few seconds at that rate....I have since dropped the thought of competing, it was a silly thought, really the goal was to get a good single stroke roll. It still isn't as comfortable as I want but it's much more even.
I am so glad I did that, my hands majorly benefitted from all those hours of focus.
Like you I agree that it's better to have way more technique than you actually use. And that rudiment as you know will even your hands out like nothing else.

But getting a good single stroke roll didn't change what I played in the least, it did change the cleanness of what I played, so it was well worth the effort.
My main goal in playing the drums...and I really mean this sincerely, is to make it impossible for people to sit still when I play. I get so high on groove. When I play, I'm looking to compel women to get out there and move, because there is not much that can top the sight of a beautiful woman dancing. That's why I choose music that is in line with that, and why I would never make a good jazz student. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and we all benefit from hearing a person with an entirely different mindset than their own speak their thoughts, as long as we're secure enough to understand that there are many valid and seemingly different perceptions.

Your perspective is so valuable to me, because it is mainly hidden from my view.
 
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