Beater angle when it strikes the bass drum head

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I'm with Mr. Parcher here.

If I were designing a beater, I'd want it to be adjustable so it hits the head on the best possible angle both for sound and head life, with the beater shaft not going past vertical. Tilting the bass drum back is not the answer, because the angle of the batter head would be in the wrong direction. That would make it worse. Plus the batter hoop would be unduly stressed.

I tried the sonic hammer but I didn't like the feel. There was very little weight on top. Plus the back of the adjustable beater head shaft would hit the top of my socked foot on rebound. Ouch, I definitely don't need that while I'm playing.

As a heel down player, it's more work on me to make the beater shaft go past vertical. Heel up it probably doesn't matter. It makes sense to me to make the beater head adjustable because different drums have different width bass drum hoops.

This problem is an untapped market IMO. Who cares if it's picking nits, I love picking nits. A nit free drumset...I'd be good wit dat. Plus I think enough people would buy into it to be profitable. The Sonic Hammer had the right design goals, but definitely a "less than ideal" solution for their product.
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
I'm with Mr. Parcher here.

Tilting the bass drum back is not the answer, because the angle of the batter head would be in the wrong direction. That would make it worse. Plus the batter hoop would be unduly stressed.
You lost me, here. Typically, the front/reso side of the bass drum is lifted, causing a more acute angle of the batter head to the floor. If your pedal is still flat on the floor, you've closed the angle in which the beater strikes the head.

I don't see this as a good solution, though (hoop stress). I like the idea of an offset beater head. Straight shaft, but with a beater head biased in the forward position. The sonic hammer seems like a very "application specific" implementation of this (very light). I would want a more traditionally shaped beater with some heft to it, and a simpler design. I'm a heel down guy, and the extra weight is helpful, IMO.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
You lost me, here. Typically, the front/reso side of the bass drum is lifted, causing a more acute angle of the batter head to the floor. If your pedal is still flat on the floor, you've closed the angle in which the beater strikes the head.

.
I could be wrong here, but I was thinking that a bass drum head where the top of the batter was closer to the drummer...that would be in the wrong direction if it was coupled with a beater that is going past vertical. To me it would be like a "V" where the left side of the V is the bass drum batter head, and the right side of the V is the angle of the beater head going past vertical. A parallel hit is the goal, nit that it is lol.
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
I could be wrong here, but I was thinking that a bass drum head where the top of the batter was closer to the drummer...that would be in the wrong direction if it was coupled with a beater that is going past vertical. To me it would be like a "V" where the left side of the V is the bass drum batter head, and the right side of the V is the angle of the beater head going past vertical. A parallel hit is the goal, nit that it is lol.
Ah, gotcha. I agree, not a good solution. Maybe a nit, but I still think it's a worthy exercise.

OK, the beater head would have to be offset and elongated, and the mounting hole would have to be slotted so that the head could be shifted forward and back to accommodate the variable distance from the beater shaft to the head (of different pedals), in order to keep the shaft parallel to the head at the striking point. If I had a wood shop, I'd whip one up.
 

Pylot

Senior Member
I started back into drumming with a refurbed SpeedKing. This fellow who goes by DRUMMERMECHANIX rebuilds them, bushes them and re-inforces them and refinishes them and they are smooth as glass. No squeak ever. But they are still older technology.

And they are not infinitely adjustable.

So I looked for an upgrade and bought a Yamaha 9500D. Got a smokin deal from cymbalfusion on a 9500D. This is the modern upgrade to the SpeedKing and very close in feel but superior in ergonomics.

The 9500D has separate adjustments for spring tension, pedal height and beater angle. It takes a little tweaking but you can dial it in for what is perfect for you.

I like to dial in where the beater is an inch off of the batter when my foot is at rest.
 
The 9500D has separate adjustments for spring tension, pedal height and beater angle. It takes a little tweaking but you can dial it in for what is perfect for you.

Nice pedal, but unfortunately it doesn't have any adjustments that would deal with the issue I'm talking about. If you take a close look I'll bet the beater is not hitting the head flat on, unless you have thinner hoops than normal.

I'm starting to think this may be the primary issue I'm having with my double bass pad practice not translating as easily as I'd like to the regular kit. Both my practice setups (a Gibraltar pad and a bass drum mute pad) cause my beater to be parallel, and it feels great. Then there's almost an extra inch of travel when I get on my real kit and it feels more difficult. I have no problem doing what I need to do in my band, but I would love to experiment with this further.

larryace said:
I tried the sonic hammer but I didn't like the feel. There was very little weight on top. Plus the back of the adjustable beater head shaft would hit the top of my socked foot on rebound. Ouch, I definitely don't need that while I'm playing.
I'm wondering if these might be OK with added weight on the beater head, (and possibly a hacked off shaft). I also like a top heavy beater, I don't need speed as much as power. Your review of these is the primary reason I hesitate to try them, but it's really the only cost effective way to experiment with this, it seems.
 

Pylot

Senior Member
Hey Parcher I checked and you are right.

The 9500 has the beater striking the head an inch after the parallel position of the beater arm to the batter head.

There is no way to move the pedal closer to the batter other than cutting the hoop.

I could find a beater that was an inch further forward from the arm. Might have to make something to do this. I may try putting a Z bend in the beater arm and moving it forward an inch.

An inch of travel is a lot in the arc of the beater.
 
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Les Ismore

Platinum Member
I'm not a physics expert, but I feel like striking at this point would be ideal and I would like to try it. I'm not stressing about it, just curious.

Also, I am not speaking from a sound standpoint, more of an economics of motion standpoint.


AXIS recommends the beater shaft not exceed 90 degrees on impact (or so Darrell (Mr AXIS) told me when I talked to him about some of his pedal theory years ago).

I've played the beater striking way past 90 degrees, its a way to get lower foot board height and still maintain the same feel on the cam and shaft. Feel is subjective, so even if the physics were explained why not going past 90 degrees is the most efficient movement for the pedal, it doesn't matter. Its all about what you think feels right, if beater shaft forward of the horizontal main shaft makes you play better, that's good enough for me, to hell with physics. So my point is, don't get caught up in where your beater shaft angel is, it should be wherever feels best to you.






The sonic hammer seems like a very "application specific" implementation of this (very light). I would want a more traditionally shaped beater with some heft to it, and a simpler design. I'm a heel down guy, and the extra weight is helpful, IMO.

SONIC HAMMERS are 4.5 Oz which for a beater is 'HEAVY', and I don't know of any beater that's heavier, there may be one, but Im not aware of it.

There are many self adjusting beaters on the market, they automatically adjust their faces to hit flat at any angle of shaft.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
The new beaters on the 2016 Iron Cobras extend forward more than the original beaters, and also adjust the tilt.
I don't know if they are yet for sale as a separate item (without the pedal).

 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
At the end of the day one could spend too long trying to fix problems that don't really exist.

There have been a few ideas and examples of products that work here but at the end of the day it's a very minor issue.

I'd say just lengthen your bass drum spurs a bit, and save some cash but not thinking about it.
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
SONIC HAMMERS are 4.5 Oz which for a beater is 'HEAVY', and I don't know of any beater that's heavier, there may be one, but Im not aware of it.
Yes, I wasn't clear. I meant light in feel. My preference is a beater with a higher moment of inertia.

It looks like my danmar beater has a removable head. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a wooden hammer- head together. Maybe time to enlist the help of a friend...
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Yes, I wasn't clear. I meant light in feel. My preference is a beater with a higher moment of inertia.

It looks like my danmar beater has a removable head. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a wooden hammer- head together. Maybe time to enlist the help of a friend...

If you put the hammer back against the shaft, SH is a heavy feeling beater, the more the head of the SH beater is away from its beater shaft the lighter it feels.
 
At the end of the day one could spend too long trying to fix problems that don't really exist.

There have been a few ideas and examples of products that work here but at the end of the day it's a very minor issue.

I'd say just lengthen your bass drum spurs a bit, and save some cash but not thinking about it.
I see where you're coming from, but at this point I have to know what it's like for myself, and the risk/reward of trying some sonic-hammers is in my favor.
 

lsits

Gold Member
The beaters on my Demonator are angled slightly so that the flat part hits the head straight on.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
If you put the hammer back against the shaft, SH is a heavy feeling beater, the more the head of the SH beater is away from its beater shaft the lighter it feels.

That's interesting! I didn't know that.

I see where you're coming from, but at this point I have to know what it's like for myself, and the risk/reward of trying some sonic-hammers is in my favor.
I've had no issues with them. I happen to like those beaters.
 

Pylot

Senior Member
I removed the beater on my SpeedKing and put a z bend in the shaft. This moved the beater forward about one inch and now has the beater parallel with the batter head. I thought it might shorten the shaft too much to get to the center of the 24" kick that its on, it did shorten it a bit but it still had enough adjustment left to position it and secure it in the pedal.
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
You should get right on this problem! I would do other things with my life, but hey, to each their own. FWIW, if you stop nerding out about beater angles, you might get laid eventually.
I enjoy working these types of issues. You never know what you might come up with.

I'm going to try to get my friend to whip up something like the pic below (top-down). The scale's not so good, but you can get the idea. The slot won't work if the torque on the top nut is insufficient, but I'm a heel-down guy, so maybe it'll be enough. The slot will allow for movement of the beater head to account for variability of beater-to-head distance differences. The elongated beater head will make up the distance that's lacking in most beaetrs.
 

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bud7h4

Silver Member
I enjoy working these types of issues. You never know what you might come up with.

I'm going to try to get my friend to whip up something like the pic below (top-down). The scale's not so good, but you can get the idea. The slot won't work if the torque on the top nut is insufficient, but I'm a heel-down guy, so maybe it'll be enough. The slot will allow for movement of the beater head to account for variability of beater-to-head distance differences. The elongated beater head will make up the distance that's lacking in most beaetrs.

Several beaters already do this. Tama beaters for example (probably the most commonly used beater in the known universe).
 

Ron_M

Senior Member
Several beaters already do this. Tama beaters for example (probably the most commonly used beater in the known universe).
As far as I can tell, bud, the Tama beaters only adjust for striking angle of the beater head, not the beater itself. Am I missing something?
 
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