Bass drum pulling overtones from toms...uhg

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deadletteroffice

Junior Member
I bought a new kit the past few weeks back. Lovely Ludwig Classic Maple in 13, 16, 22. I previously had the same kit in 12, 14, 20. With the new kit I'm experiencing a lot of low overtones when I strike the kick drum generating from the 2 toms. Every time I hit the kick "hommmmm". If I lay my hands gently on the top heads of the 2 toms it's gone and the kick sounds good. I spent a good deal of time tuning the new kit using new heads (clears on the bottom and coated A's on the top). The tunings sound great, each drum sounds great, but the overtones generated from the kick drum are almost like a sub bass trigger added in. Super annoying. I have an Evans pillow in the kick and added a small blanket as well thinking that may help, but no dice.

*Update: It's almost entirely the floor tom top head. The tuning sounds great, but it's vibrating and generating a lot of tone when the bass drum is struck. I have tried an Evans dampening ring and moon gels. The only thing that stops it is to literally muffle it fully with a tea towel.

Any advise for a somewhat newbie?
 
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Its sympathetic ring. The frequency produced by your kick is causing the heads on the floor tom to vibrate. You should be able to tune it out.

This is also a big problem with snares. Sympathetic ring causes wires to buzz and it drives some people nuts.
 
beet said:
It is possible that BD vibrations are transmitted to the floor tom through the floor. Try holding the floor tom off the floor near its current position. Hit the bass drum and see if it still rings. If not, try soft foam beneath the floor tom feet. Adding foam under the feet could also help because it changes the resonant frequency of the floor tom, which ends up helping.

not all that likely but worth a try.
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Didnt think of that. I used to have a kit on the 2nd floor, and walking would make the toms ring.
 
I have had my ride cymbal ring or hum after a hit on the floor tom.
 
beet said:
It is possible that BD vibrations are transmitted to the floor tom through the floor. Try holding the floor tom off the floor near its current position. Hit the bass drum and see if it still rings. If not, try soft foam beneath the floor tom feet. Adding foam under the feet could also help because it changes the resonant frequency of the floor tom, which ends up helping.

not all that likely but worth a try.
Click to expand...

TY for the suggestion. I tried lifting it off floor while hitting the beater and no difference. It's just flat out vibration. I moved it a few inches further away to see if that helps, but it does not. The only thing that stops it is to put something substantial on the FT head, like a folded up t-shirt, therefore making it unusable. In order to "tune it out" I suspect I'd have to tune that tom up so high it wouldn't sound good. Hmm.
 
I remember really worrying about this back in the day, and then I came across many sound engineers who would say: " why do you want to get rid of the ring? That is part of the natural over all sound of the set."

I quit worrying about it ever since...other than using natural tuning methods to get some seperation, but it was interesting that I have never been in a studio situation where they wanted the drums to be that isolated. The goal is to always get a nice, live, open sounding kit...
 
beet said:
Is the BD ported? Advice is “do the opposite of what you have”! 🤔🤔🤔🤣🤣

It is probably the room’s fault, too.
Click to expand...

Yes, ported. I retuned the bass drum from scratch tonight which didn't end the issue, but it changed the note that was happening which was almost like an 808 vibe. Everything I played sounded like old school hip-hop there for a couple weeks. Haha
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I remember really worrying about this back in the day, and then I came across many sound engineers who would say: " why do you want to get rid of the ring? That is part of the natural over all sound of the set."

I quit worrying about it ever since...other than using natural tuning methods to get some seperation, but it was interesting that I have never been in a studio situation where they wanted the drums to be that isolated. The goal is to always get a nice, live, open sounding kit...
Click to expand...

This is not a live kit at all. Only recording here so it's critical to find ways to minimize funky overtones that are unsavory, particularly in music that is not bashing, loud and dense. Most of the stuff we are doing here has space, singer-songwriter to Americana of sorts, so the quality of each element is more exposed and in focus. I'll get it dialed in, but open to suggestions and I've received a few to try, which even if they don't work are still helpful. Might not work for this, but might work for something else later. Ideas are good.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I remember really worrying about this back in the day, and then I came across many sound engineers who would say: " why do you want to get rid of the ring? That is part of the natural over all sound of the set."

I quit worrying about it ever since...other than using natural tuning methods to get some seperation, but it was interesting that I have never been in a studio situation where they wanted the drums to be that isolated. The goal is to always get a nice, live, open sounding kit...
Click to expand...

Roland drum modules have a setting, I believe in the kick drum parameters, that allows you to add that tom resonance, the goal of course being to make it sound as real as possible.
 
This is normal, and in a mix with other instruments it makes the bass drum and snare sound bigger, warmer.
What I sometimes do is lower the volume on my tom mics unless the toms are playing (automation).
But in the end, you want your snare to buzz and your toms to ring. A drum kit recording is a wholistic thing, not individual parts.
 
deadletteroffice said:
This is not a live kit at all. Only recording here so it's critical to find ways to minimize funky overtones that are unsavory, particularly in music that is not bashing, loud and dense. Most of the stuff we are doing here has space, singer-songwriter to Americana of sorts, so the quality of each element is more exposed and in focus. I'll get it dialed in, but open to suggestions and I've received a few to try, which even if they don't work are still helpful. Might not work for this, but might work for something else later. Ideas are good.
Click to expand...

oh, I was talking about studio recording situations, not live. In fact, in my Americana/country band, we record "Bonham" style...two or three close "pencil" over head condensers*, two far away room bigger diaphragm mics* and a kick mic* on the batter head pointed right at the beater (I don't have a hole in the front head of that kit).

* I don't remember the kinds of mics off the top of my head

and in the past - mostly for metal stuff - we would do the typical close mics on all drums, 2 or 3 overheads, snare and batter side for snare; ride cymbal mic; room ambient mics...it was in those situations where the engineers also wanted any and all sympathetic ring in the recording

and NOT saying that your situation is wrong or anything; I have to deal with tuning out sympathetic resonance in my school concert band situation sometimes, and it is time consuming...I couldn't imagine having to do it on a set in that close miced situation...I would be more bald than I already am!!
bud7h4 said:
Roland drum modules have a setting, I believe in the kick drum parameters, that allows you to add that tom resonance, the goal of course being to make it sound as real as possible.
Click to expand...

hmm...I wonder if my "cheapy" TDK-11's have that setting....I have not really dove in to what that brain can do. We mostly use that kit for Sunday morning prax to not piss off the neighbors
 
deadletteroffice said:
This is not a live kit at all. Only recording here so it's critical to find ways to minimize funky overtones that are unsavory, particularly in music that is not bashing, loud and dense. Most of the stuff we are doing here has space, singer-songwriter to Americana of sorts, so the quality of each element is more exposed and in focus. I'll get it dialed in, but open to suggestions and I've received a few to try, which even if they don't work are still helpful. Might not work for this, but might work for something else later. Ideas are good.
Click to expand...
I only have one kit, and it's "treated" as if for recording- a very big help for me was watching this video, and making my own dampers as shown in the video.
They really help with taming sympathetic ring and unwanted tones. Cheap DIY, too.



 
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
hmm...I wonder if my "cheapy" TDK-11's have that setting....I have not really dove in to what that brain can do. We mostly use that kit for Sunday morning prax to not piss off the neighbors
Click to expand...

I don't think it does. It's probably a feature in their "SuperNatural" sounds on the fancier modules. It sure makes a difference; I found it to be as crucial as any other ambience effect on the module (TD30).
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
oh, I was talking about studio recording situations, not live. In fact, in my Americana/country band, we record "Bonham" style...two or three close "pencil" over head condensers*, two far away room bigger diaphragm mics* and a kick mic* on the batter head pointed right at the beater (I don't have a hole in the front head of that kit).

* I don't remember the kinds of mics off the top of my head

and in the past - mostly for metal stuff - we would do the typical close mics on all drums, 2 or 3 overheads, snare and batter side for snare; ride cymbal mic; room ambient mics...it was in those situations where the engineers also wanted any and all sympathetic ring in the recording

and NOT saying that your situation is wrong or anything; I have to deal with tuning out sympathetic resonance in my school concert band situation sometimes, and it is time consuming...I couldn't imagine having to do it on a set in that close miced situation...I would be more bald than I already am!!


hmm...I wonder if my "cheapy" TDK-11's have that setting....I have not really dove in to what that brain can do. We mostly use that kit for Sunday morning prax to not piss off the neighbors
Click to expand...
I've never heard of Bonham recording like that, but there's a lot I don't claim to know.
 
deadletteroffice said:
I've never heard of Bonham recording like that, but there's a lot I don't claim to know.
Click to expand...

yeah...from what I have heard, that is part of how he got his famous huge drum sound
 
wraub said:
I understand large stair wells helped... :D
Click to expand...

yeah they had ambient mics all over the room...and stairs...to catch as much (natural) reverb as possible
 
wraub said:
I only have one kit, and it's "treated" as if for recording- a very big help for me was watching this video, and making my own dampers as shown in the video.
They really help with taming sympathetic ring and unwanted tones. Cheap DIY, too.



Click to expand...

Thanks. Looks like he has gauze pads taped to the rims but not to the heads so they can move with the strikes to the toms but not when the tom is not played. Good idea. I'll give that a try. I was going to try some gauze pads, but not like this. Good stuff. Appreciated!
 
deadletteroffice said:
Thanks. Looks like he has gauze pads taped to the rims but not to the heads so they can move with the strikes to the toms but not when the tom is not played. Good idea. I'll give that a try. I was going to try some gauze pads, but not like this. Good stuff. Appreciated!
Click to expand...

Gaff tape and thin felts, like these- stuck on the tape, then tape on the rim. Quick, easily applied and removed. Really work to tame unwanted overtones.
iu

They open on attack, then close quickly, allowing the drum attack and quieting the rest.

I have them on all my drums, they work as I need. Worth a try.
 
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