Band shot itself in the foot.

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
It probably wouldn't be too hard to arrange for him to get another DUI and get him a paid vacation courtesy of the state. I know that's evil but you would be taking a drunk driver off of the street, assuming that he is continuing that practice.
You just don't want anyone to KNOW that you orchestrated the whole thing, though. That's the key. I do like the idea. It's dirty, but this jerk has it coming.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
You just don't want anyone to KNOW that you orchestrated the whole thing, though. That's the key. I do like the idea. It's dirty, but this jerk has it coming.
Y'all are cold!

Contact an interventionist. The guy is obviously not in control of his relationship with alcohol (perhaps there are other drugs, too). But staying sober usually requires a serious examination of one's life, and it's better to do that in rehab than go to jail, which pretty much guarantees you'll never have a decent job again.

If you truly want to be a friend to the guy, call in his family and rally everyone he knows around getting this guy admitted to a program. Now.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Y'all are cold!

Contact an interventionist. The guy is obviously not in control of his relationship with alcohol (perhaps there are other drugs, too). But staying sober usually requires a serious examination of one's life, and it's better to do that in rehab than go to jail, which pretty much guarantees you'll never have a decent job again.

If you truly want to be a friend to the guy, call in his family and rally everyone he knows around getting this guy admitted to a program. Now.
Threatening to make sure his band mates never get booked again? That's not alcohol. That's just assishness, and completely removes all obligation to treat him with any fairness. He DESERVES to never have a decent job again. Flat out, end of story.
 
G

Ghostnote

Guest
Cut him loose. How can you work with someone who's blackmailing you?
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Y'all are cold!

Contact an interventionist. The guy is obviously not in control of his relationship with alcohol (perhaps there are other drugs, too). But staying sober usually requires a serious examination of one's life, and it's better to do that in rehab than go to jail, which pretty much guarantees you'll never have a decent job again.

If you truly want to be a friend to the guy, call in his family and rally everyone he knows around getting this guy admitted to a program. Now.
The issue is about his involvement with the band, and that relationship must be terminated - too much damage has been done to make nice at this point. If the guys genuinely care about him, then they can pursue some help for him. But that's a separate issue from him booking and playing in the band right now. He has to be out so that the band and its opportunities aren't destroyed by him.

If he's able to get back on track, then the band would need to have an extremely serious and judicious talk about whether he was such a fabulous booker and player as to let him get involved again. They also need to determine whether this guy has perhaps done irreparable harm to the band's relationship with the venues, and whether bringing him back makes them poison to their former employers. I know we're talking about a person with a problem, but business is business. Assuming everyone ends up feeling okay about him, a unanimous vote is the only way he should be let back in, with strict, clearly stated conditions and no additional chances if he screws up. Make him sign an "I know this is my last chance" pledge to demonstrate his commitment.

I've seen people bounce back from drinking issues, and I applaud them. Not everyone really wants to be helped. Sometimes there's a point where you have to walk away so that your life isn't sucked into their hole. As an outsider looking in, I'd say the band is entitled to feel that way right now.

Bermuda
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
The issue is about his involvement with the band, and that relationship must be terminated - too much damage has been done to make nice at this point. If the guys genuinely care about him, then they can pursue some help for him. But that's a separate issue from him booking and playing in the band right now. He has to be out so that the band and its opportunities aren't destroyed by him.

If he's able to get back on track, then the band would need to have an extremely serious and judicious talk about whether he was such a fabulous booker and player as to let him get involved again. They also need to determine whether this guy has perhaps done irreparable harm to the band's relationship with the venues, and whether bringing him back makes them poison to their former employers. I know we're talking about a person with a problem, but business is business. Assuming everyone ends up feeling okay about him, a unanimous vote is the only way he should be let back in, with strict, clearly stated conditions and no additional chances if he screws up. Make him sign an "I know this is my last chance" pledge to demonstrate his commitment.

I've seen people bounce back from drinking issues, and I applaud them. Not everyone really wants to be helped. Sometimes there's a point where you have to walk away so that your life isn't sucked into their hole. As an outsider looking in, I'd say the band is entitled to feel that way right now.

Bermuda
Sure, they're going to feel sucked in, and they should definitely kick him out. In the process, though, they're in a position to try to help. If he refuses the help, or his friends and family won't come together to aid in the process, well, at least they tried.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Sure, they're going to feel sucked in, and they should definitely kick him out. In the process, though, they're in a position to try to help. If he refuses the help, or his friends and family won't come together to aid in the process, well, at least they tried.
I re-read the first post, and am reminded that this guy has been through the court system, and once off probation, was back to drinking and causing problems.

Helping is the right thing to do as fellow humans, but they'd be spinning their wheels. He doesn't want to be helped.

Bermuda
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I re-read the first post, and am reminded that this guy has been through the court system, and once off probation, was back to drinking and causing problems.

Helping is the right thing to do as fellow humans, but they'd be spinning their wheels. He doesn't want to be helped.

Bermuda
Yep. I can't agree more. He had his chance. Now it's time for some prison. Maybe that will give him the necessary change of heart.
 

GeoB

Gold Member
Piss and wind.

This guy wouldn't have half the influence he thinks he has when he's three sheets, so I wouldn't concern myself for a solitary second about "never playing anywhere again".

Get rid of him and move on. Oh, and enjoy your gigs that he'll be unable to take away from you too.
Concur. It was just likker talk.

He needs to reconcile himself to himself, for himself. Given time on the current bearing he continues along - He will be back before the courts. Sad, really; a terrible disease.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
I re-read the first post, and am reminded that this guy has been through the court system, and once off probation, was back to drinking and causing problems.

Helping is the right thing to do as fellow humans, but they'd be spinning their wheels. He doesn't want to be helped.

Bermuda
Well, of course he doesn't want to be helped. But there are people who fail at sobriety a few times, and then get the hang of it down the road. Why would you stop trying to help, if, in the meantime, the guy's not part of your group or otherwise causing damage to your life/job/hobby/whatever? A gathering of friends and family might be the push he needs. It's easy to write people of one at a time, or in small groups. Much harder to turn down a room full of people, even if some of them are newer friends.
 

calan

Silver Member
Because he got loaded and said some (obviously untrue) things? A criminal record is a fair price? Ok Hammurabi.
if he's had several DUI's and an ankle bracelet from probation, then he already has a record. Not advocating a position here, just something to consider.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Because he got loaded and said some (obviously untrue) things? A criminal record is a fair price? Ok Hammurabi.
Why is it OK that he threatened them with his power as a booker? Answer that, and you'll have my response. Abuse of power needs a wake-up call, and probation didn't give him enough of one. Next stop on the wake-up call train is prison. IMHO.
 

Icetech

Gold Member
"He has started fights on stage with the singer in front of the audience at four different gigs."

That was 3 gigs too many... Drunks don't deserve a second chance.. the courts already had to step in at least once. Never pity a drunk they know what they are doing...
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Well, of course he doesn't want to be helped. But there are people who fail at sobriety a few times, and then get the hang of it down the road. Why would you stop trying to help, if, in the meantime, the guy's not part of your group or otherwise causing damage to your life/job/hobby/whatever? A gathering of friends and family might be the push he needs. It's easy to write people of one at a time, or in small groups. Much harder to turn down a room full of people, even if some of them are newer friends.
It depends completely on the dynamic between the band and him, we don't know the full extent of everyone's relationship, or what's left of it. Is it their responsibility to step in, and expect to have a more positive effect, when the legal system was apparently not enough to straighten him out? Believe me, if I lost my license, I would straighten up forever! I wouldn't need a room full of people to drive the point home.

If this became someone's personal mission to help, that's a good thing, and I wish them the necessary luck. But I don't feel it's this band's responsibility for any reason. It would be different if it was a long-running band with permanent members and a solid dynamic, and someone began having personal problems, regardless if it affected the band or the business. But this band's problems begin almost immediately after the player joined just recently. You've got to be able to walk away for your own sanity, progress, and in this case, safety and protection from litigation.

Let me put it this way, I may give a bum a handout, such as orange juice (never money, btw.) I will not give every bum something, nor can I, or I will surely end up like them. There's a line I have to draw, even though I don't like it sometimes. I wish I could take in every stray dog I see, but it's obviously impossible logistically and financially.

If a dog was to bite me right off the bat, he'd also be out of the band. I'd feel no obligation to facilitate his re-training.

Bermuda
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
It depends completely on the dynamic between the band and him, we don't know the full extent of everyone's relationship, or what's left of it. Is it their responsibility to step in, and expect to have a more positive effect, when the legal system was apparently not enough to straighten him out? Believe me, if I lost my license, I would straighten up forever! I wouldn't need a room full of people to drive the point home.

If this became someone's personal mission to help, that's a good thing, and I wish them the necessary luck. But I don't feel it's this band's responsibility for any reason. It would be different if it was a long-running band with permanent members and a solid dynamic, and someone began having personal problems, regardless if it affected the band or the business. But this band's problems begin almost immediately after the player joined just recently. You've got to be able to walk away for your own sanity, progress, and in this case, safety and protection from litigation.

Let me put it this way, I may give a bum a handout, such as orange juice (never money, btw.) I will not give every bum something, nor can I, or I will surely end up like them. There's a line I have to draw, even though I don't like it sometimes. I wish I could take in every stray dog I see, but it's obviously impossible logistically and financially.

If a dog was to bite me right off the bat, he'd also be out of the band. I'd feel no obligation to facilitate his re-training.

Bermuda
Well, our guy doesn't need to champion the cause (this is probably best left to family), but a few phone calls plus a meeting isn't going to impoverish anyone.

Comparing a human to a dog isn't very fair, since rehab programs do actually work. Human brains are bigger and capable of learning new tricks.

My recovered alcoholic friend called me for a gig, just last week. He doesn't do bar gigs at this point, but he'll play festivals and weddings. One day at a time, as they say.

I won't give bums handouts, and I don't feel bad, because there are lots of shelters in the area. Enabling is not the same as helping.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
Why is it OK that he threatened them with his power as a booker? Answer that, and you'll have my response. Abuse of power needs a wake-up call, and probation didn't give him enough of one. Next stop on the wake-up call train is prison. IMHO.
Oh, it's not OK. He should have been fired immediately. And he does need a wake up call. But prison? If a wake up call is what's needed, then the permanence of a prison record is too much. Plus, it's actually cheaper and more effective for everyone to get him to rehab.
 

SquadLeader

Gold Member
Threatening to make sure his band mates never get booked again? That's not alcohol. That's just assishness, and completely removes all obligation to treat him with any fairness. He DESERVES to never have a decent job again. Flat out, end of story.
Of course it's alcohol...he's an alcoholic. He's ill and needs help.
 

SquadLeader

Gold Member
"He has started fights on stage with the singer in front of the audience at four different gigs."

That was 3 gigs too many... Drunks don't deserve a second chance.. the courts already had to step in at least once. Never pity a drunk they know what they are doing...
Sorry...but you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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