Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Hi Wayne.

I spent a few hours today using the Notes for Drum Sizes Guide referenced earlier and these are the values I came up with.

10" (10x8)-- Batter Lugs/ Reso lugs-- Drum Hz-- Note
C3# /138.6Hz-- 220Hz/ 220Hz-- 135Hz-- C3#
D3 /146.8Hz-- 240Hz/ 240Hz-- 144Hz-- D3
D3# /155.6Hz-- 260Hz/ 260Hz-- 155Hz-- D3#
E3 /164.8Hz-- 270Hz/ 270Hz-- 162Hz-- E3
F3 /174.6Hz-- 285Hz/ 285Hz-- 170Hz-- F3

12" (12x9) " " " "
G2# /103.8Hz-- 170Hz/ 170Hz-- 104Hz-- G2#
A2 /110Hz-- 180Hz/ 180Hz-- 109Hz-- A2
A2# /116.5Hz-- 200Hz/ 200Hz-- 119Hz-- A2#
B2 /123.5Hz-- 210Hz/ 210Hz-- 124Hz-- B2
C3 /130.8Hz-- 220Hz/ 220Hz-- 130Hz-- C3

14" (14x14) " " " "
D2# /77.8Hz-- 130Hz/ 130Hz-- 77Hz-- D2#
E2 /82.4Hz-- 140Hz/ 140Hz-- 82Hz-- E2
F2 /87.3Hz-- 150Hz/ 150Hz-- 87Hz-- F2
F2# /92.5Hz-- 160Hz/ 160Hz-- 92Hz-- F2#
G2 /98Hz-- 170Hz/ 170Hz-- 96Hz-- G2

I used even numbers for the most part to make things easier/quicker as long as I arrived at the Note target. I'm sure the resulting Drum Hz could be further tuned to almost exactly the Notes Hz if wanted.

Now that I have these values figured it should be easy to quickly set up the kit in 3rd's, 4th's or whatever.
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
So what I'm seeing here is that the overall tone of the drum (when hit in center with no dampening) drops down to about 90-100 htz compared to each lug reading.

You could then choose your note and find its corresponding frequency and tune the lugs to that + 100 htz. That should give you close to your targeted note for each drum.,..
 

wloeb

Senior Member
So what I'm seeing here is that the overall tone of the drum (when hit in center with no dampening) drops down to about 90-100 htz compared to each lug reading.

You could then choose your note and find its corresponding frequency and tune the lugs to that + 100 htz. That should give you close to your targeted note for each drum.,..
Not a constant 100 Hz. Rather a constant ratio of 1.6 or 1.7. That is, the lug pitch is between 1.6 and 1.7 times higher than the drum pitch.
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Two of the most obvious possible human inconsistency's that could prevent accurate and consistant reading are the striking of the drum head at each lug, which should be done at exactly the same distance and velocity from each lug, and placing a finger on the head to mute unwanted overtones which again should be done leaving that finger on the same spot with the same pressure while each lug Hz is takenThe first one, head striking, I got much better and accurate at the more I did it but the second one, the finger muting, I found to be the most difficult to keep consistant as you move around to each lug.

I e-mailed the Tune-Bot rep about the affect of not muting the drum head at all leaving that human factor out of the equation. So far, it seems to work fine without doing so. The Filter mode is definitely key. As you tune up the drum you have a reasonable idea of where the Hz (tension) of the head is currently at. If you tap the head and the TB shows a number that just plain looks way off, it's more than likely an overtone reading. Just tap in front of the next lug until you get a reading that looks reasonable. thats when you hit Filter. The rest is easy. Tightening or loosening the head too much will cause you to have to take it off Filter mode and again find a reasonable reading before putting it back on Filter. Repeating this procedure has worked pretty well and fast for me.
 
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BigDinSD

Gold Member
Two of the most obvious possible human inconsistency's that could prevent accurate and consistant reading are the striking of the drum head at each lug, which should be done at exactly the same distance and velocity from each lug, and placing a finger on the head to mute unwanted overtones which again should be done leaving that finger on the same spot with the same pressure while each lug Hz is takenThe first one, head striking, I got much better and accurate at the more I did it but the second one, the finger muting, I found to be the most difficult to keep consistant as you move around to each lug.

I e-mail the Tune-Bot rep about the affect of not muting the drum head at all to leave that human factor out of the equation.
I just place the drum on top of a towel, blanket etc., to mute the other head. I gave up on the finger. My finger usually gets in the way, and like you said, you have to keep in the same spot WITH THE SAME PRESSURE each hit. And if you vary the finger pressure, your readings are off.

I've gotten good at hitting pretty much the same spot near the lug. Because we are humans, the readings will vary (the less the better). Good for me that tuning is a subjective "art" that allows for subtle variances.

Thank God this is not a medical device where tolerances are extremely tight. I'd have to change careers! I think we're fine as long as we're not striving for perfection.
Perfect enough for me...
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
Seems one issue could be tuning a bass drum batter head that has a pillow or felt strip applying some pressure near a lug.

My studio kit has a DW Pillow in it, but barely touches either head so they resonate evenly.

My gig kit has a pillow that touches both heads. I've yet to tune this one so we'll see if the readings will be off.
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Ya, that's the one thing I have not tried with the TB yet, tuning the Bass.

If anything, the TB has allowed my ears to hear what a drum should sound like at a given Note, something I had no ear for before. It seems pretty accurate so I like to see visually how close in tune my lugs are to each other and it may be just psychological but when I can see that all the numbers match and the drum is in tune to the Note that I want it at, it just seems to sing and resonate like I had never heard it do before. Pretty cool.

Now I'm using the numbers I have for each Note and quickly tuning the drum to find out at which one that particular drum resonates to the best. Later I'll see what the kit sounds like in perfect 3rd's or Fourth's at those best Notes. Interesting stuff really.
 
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Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Hi Wayne.

I spent a few hours today using the Notes for Drum Sizes Guide referenced earlier and these are the values I came up with.

10" (10x8)-- Batter Lugs/ Reso lugs-- Drum Hz-- Note
C3# /138.6Hz-- 220Hz/ 220Hz-- 135Hz-- C3#
D3 /146.8Hz-- 240Hz/ 240Hz-- 144Hz-- D3
D3# /155.6Hz-- 260Hz/ 260Hz-- 155Hz-- D3#
E3 /164.8Hz-- 270Hz/ 270Hz-- 162Hz-- E3
F3 /174.6Hz-- 285Hz/ 285Hz-- 170Hz-- F3

12" (12x9) " " " "
G2# /103.8Hz-- 170Hz/ 170Hz-- 104Hz-- G2#
A2 /110Hz-- 180Hz/ 180Hz-- 109Hz-- A2
A2# /116.5Hz-- 200Hz/ 200Hz-- 119Hz-- A2#
B2 /123.5Hz-- 210Hz/ 210Hz-- 124Hz-- B2
C3 /130.8Hz-- 220Hz/ 220Hz-- 130Hz-- C3

14" (14x14) " " " "
D2# /77.8Hz-- 130Hz/ 130Hz-- 77Hz-- D2#
E2 /82.4Hz-- 140Hz/ 140Hz-- 82Hz-- E2
F2 /87.3Hz-- 150Hz/ 150Hz-- 87Hz-- F2
F2# /92.5Hz-- 160Hz/ 160Hz-- 92Hz-- F2#
G2 /98Hz-- 170Hz/ 170Hz-- 96Hz-- G2

Snare (14x5.5)
F3 /174.6Hz-- 280Hz/ 280Hz-- 173Hz-- F3
F3#/185Hz-- 300Hz/ 300Hz-- 185Hz-- F3#
G3 /196Hz-- 320Hz/ 320Hz-- 196Hz-- G3
G3#/207.7Hz-- 330Hz/ 330Hz-- 203Hz-- G3#
A3 /220Hz-- 350Hz/ 350Hz-- 218Hz-- A3
A3#/233.1Hz-- 370Hz/ 370Hz-- 227Hz-- A3#
B3 /246.9Hz-- 390Hz/ 390Hz-- 242Hz-- B3

I used even numbers for the most part to make things easier/quicker as long as I arrived at the Note target. I'm sure the resulting Drum Hz could be further tuned to almost exactly the Notes Hz if wanted.

Now that I have these values figured it should be easy to quickly set up the kit in 3rd's, 4th's or whatever.
I added the Snare numbers to the list. I know I have always tightened down my snare heads but I was surprised by how much I had to really crank down the head to get to a B note. Also, I don't care as much about sustain when it comes to the Snare so I usually tighten up the reso more than the batter. I found that after finding the numbers to the Note I want, I just subtract 10-20Hz from the batter and add that same amount to the reso. That shortens the sustain and keeps the Snare in tune with the target Note.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
I have shot a lot of pictures, but I'm still compiling data using different drums and hoop types. This takes a while because of my time restraints and the written notes that are involved with these tests. I have already sent back the first Tune Bot that I was borrowing, so I no longer have the luxury of two to make any further comparison tests. But to be quite honest, I have exhausted much of my patients towards this project already, lol.

Dennis
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
It's definitely time consuming Dennis, and to be honest I really didn't like the Tune-Bot initially. I was getting inconsistant number values at the same spot. But, for me, the more I used it the better at using I became. I started to get a feel for when to use the Filter, how to strike the head accurately and consistently, and how to quickly tune a head from Note to Note. I actually really like it now.

I took the Tune-Bot down to the San Diego Drum Shop, my local mom & pop drums only store, and gave them a little demo. I had previously ordered a Drum Dial thru them (no more GC for me :)) after seeing one of the shop owners use one. They were floored by how much better the TB worked and were online to their distributor before I left.
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
It's definitely time consuming Dennis, and to be honest I really didn't like the Tune-Bot initially. I was getting inconsistant number values at the same spot. But, for me, the more I used it the better at using I became. I started to get a feel for when to use the Filter, how to strike the head accurately and consistently, and how to quickly tune a head from Note to Note. I actually really like it now.

I took the Tune-Bot down to the San Diego Drum Shop, my local mom & pop drums only store, and gave them a little demo. I had previously ordered a Drum Dial thru them (no more GC for me :)) after seeing one of the shop owners use one. They were floored by how much better the TB worked and were online to their distributor before I left.
Definitely more useful and reliable after you figure out how to use it. I'm not much of a perfectionist or pro when it comes to tuning, but I can definitely tell when a drum "sings" and when it is out of tune" This gizmo just adds some speed and confidence to that. The time I spent on it was a small investment regarding the tuning freedom I now have.

I'm keeping mine :)

Hey Mike, didn't know you were in the SD area! I know the guys over at the San Diego Drum Shop (after I finally found it a while back). Nice little shop. Definitely not GC :)
Good folks over there.
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Definitely more useful and reliable after you figure out how to use it. I'm not much of a perfectionist or pro when it comes to tuning, but I can definitely tell when a drum "sings" and when it is out of tune" This gizmo just adds some speed and confidence to that. The time I spent on it was a small investment regarding the tuning freedom I now have.

I'm keeping mine :)

Hey Mike, didn't know you were in the SD area! I know the guys over at the San Diego Drum Shop (after I finally found it a while back). Nice little shop. Definitely not GC :)
Good folks over there.
Ya buddy, keep'in mine too :).

Yup, I just discovered the San Diego Drum Shop about a month ago, glad I did. Bought my first acoustic kit from them the same day ( I had a Hybrid Acoustic/Roland kit). Paul and Chris are great guys, nice family business. I love to support local business. No more GC for me. I talked to Mike Johnston about them and he seems pretty interested in putting on a clinic there which would be cool.
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
Ya buddy, keep'in mine too :).

Yup, I just discovered the San Diego Drum Shop about a month ago, glad I did. Bought my first acoustic kit from them the same day ( I had a Hybrid Acoustic/Roland kit). Paul and Chris are great guys, nice family business. I love to support local business. No more GC for me. I talked to Mike Johnston about them and he seems pretty interested in putting on a clinic there which would be cool.
Yeah, I wish I could help them out more and promote them. If you ever ask them about an item they'll immediately go online and match the price for you. When they first started out, I mentioned establishing a Facebook page. Look 'em up under: "San Diego Drum Shop" and throw them a LIKE.

It's been a while since I stopped by there since their last drum swapmeet. Real honest folks man. Never any pressure to sell you stuff. I'll have to swing by soon. Especially if Mike Johnston shows up.
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
I'm having trouble understanding something. If I want to tune my kit to thirds then i should be able to follow the chart supplied with the Tune-Bot but it's not making sense to me. I understand the top set of Notes, C E G B D F A C, but below that I cannot follow the logic in terms of thirds.

I'm just learning this stuff so a Google search gave me good explanation of thirds. One is, "Whenever two notes are separated by a distance of two whole steps (or four half steps), it is called an interval of a major third." The other is, "Whenever two notes are separated by a distance of one and one-half steps (or three half steps), it is called an interval of a minor third."

For example, the second line down starting with C# the next Note is F but if a major third is a separation of two whole steps and a minor third is a separation of one and a half steps then how could going from C# to F be a third if it's separated by two and half steps?

With these two examples in mind I try to follow the Thirds Chart but it doesn't 'seem' to conform to the the two rules above. Can you guys take a look at that chart and see if it makes sense to you?

Explanation of Skipping Notes and Thirds....http://www.netplaces.com/piano/skips-and-steps/skipping-notes.htm

Refer to the last page of the PDF (pdf Vertone Tune-bot Electronic Drum Tuner)....http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=34&gs_id=3r&xhr=t&q=tune-bot+owners+instruction+manual&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=tune-bot+owners+instruction+manual&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=590ed4f3649af2e1&biw=1280&bih=659
 
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A

audiotech

Guest
Any update on this aspect Dennis?
I can just touch on this a bit. During a tracking session last week I just thought that maybe the Tune Bot would be of some use as an engineering tool. What I did was to use the Tune Bot to find the approximate frequency of each drum in the kit to be able to more or less pinpoint the center equalization and then transfer this information to the EQ pots on the board. I've always done this by ear, but this takes some of the guess work out of the equation. All I had to do then was adjust the "Q", or bandwidth,and the gain or reduction of the equalized frequency. I never over equalize anything, but sometimes 2 or 3 decibels of correction is all that is needed, especially when you're able to hone in on the frequency within 5 or 6 cycles of the source. It only took a couple of minutes to hit each drum and jot down the readings for reference.

It's not really earth shattering, but I'm trying to look at both pros and cons in some alternate uses.

Dennis
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I can just touch on this a bit. During a tracking session last week I just thought that maybe the Tune Bot would be of some use as an engineering tool. What I did was to use the Tune Bot to find the approximate frequency of each drum in the kit to be able to more or less pinpoint the center equalization and then transfer this information to the EQ pots on the board. I've always done this by ear, but this takes some of the guess work out of the equation. All I had to do then was adjust the "Q", or bandwidth,and the gain or reduction of the equalized frequency. I never over equalize anything, but sometimes 2 or 3 decibels of correction is all that is needed, especially when you're able to hone in on the frequency within 5 or 6 cycles of the source. It only took a couple of minutes to hit each drum and jot down the readings for reference.

It's not really earth shattering, but I'm trying to look at both pros and cons in some alternate uses.

Dennis
Thank you Dennis, & that is indeed a useful application that hadn't crossed my mind either. Being able to nail the fundamental on the sweep isn't that difficult, but any greater accuracy/affirmation is a good thing. How about expanding that, & please tell me if I'm way off the mark here. As I understand it, in filter mode, the Tune Bot will exclude most overtones. Therefore, by implication, when not in filter mode, it should identify dominant overtones. If that's the case, identification of such tones would be even more useful than using the Tune Bot to ring fence the fundamental, especially in live applications.

I find modern DSP units built into higher end active cabs, can sometimes accentuate very specific frequencies, & if the overtones coincide with unintentional narrow boost, the result can be fairly nasty. It doesn't happen that often, but when it does, it's detune on the fly time + PITA.

Nice thinking Dennis, & much appreciated :)
 
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