Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

tard

Gold Member
I want to believe there really is a quicker and easier way to tune......that technology is going to show us up for the feeble creatures we are.
There is its called the resotune, (http://www.resotune.com/) very similar to the same system they use to tune pianos except it sends a sonic signal thru the shell and you can either tune the drum to the shell or any other key you want to pick. It tells you which lugs to turn and even which way to turn them without ever having to strike the drum. I actually saw one and it actually does work as good and as fast as they say and it is very accurate. The only catch is its $250. I will stick to my key and my ear. Although if I could get my money back that I wasted over the years on a drum torque, 2 different torque keys and a drum dial and add the price of a tune bot I could have bought one...lol
 
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Sribner

Junior Member
Next I moved my 12" tom to my work table. I tried both a towel under the opposite head and also without it. I now have the Tune Bot at the 10 o'clock position on the hoop. I usually call tension rod #1 the lug just to the right of the logo on the drum head and the logo is always at the top of the drum. Tension rod #1 gave me a reading of 268 cycles, kinda of weird. #2 was 198.6, #3 was 198.7, #4 was 268.5, #5 was 199.1 and #6 was 198.6. All except tension rods 1 and 4 were pretty close, I was pretty proud of what my ears had done. I started working with rod #1, trying to ascertain why the Tune Bot was registering a semi harmonic instead of the specific fundamental. A true second harmonic would be the doubling of the fundamental frequency. I was hitting one inch behind each tension rod. No matter what I did, I could not get that reading back to the fundamental frequency of the other rods. I brought the tension down on both 1 and 4 and it still read 267 cycles at #1. For grins and giggles, I moved the Tune Bot and placed it at the 12 o'clock position on the hoop, wow, now it's reading 197.1, close to the fundamental frequency at the rest of the drums lugs. OK something is strange here, so I mover the Tune Bot back to the 10 o'clock position and again it's reading 262 cycles. I didn't adjust any tension rods between the times I moved the Tune Bot. The Tune Bot is supposed to be able to accurately read the sound from the head anywhere around the hoop. The tension rods 1 and 4 sounded a bit flat to my ears, but the device was not picking this up as a fundamental frequency, even though the "filter" was in the circuit at the time. I moved the Tune Bot to the 6 o'clock position of the hoop.and hit the area of the #1 tension rod again. The reading was 259.8 cycles, not touching anything, I gave it another hit five or six seconds later, now it was within a couple of cycles of the 2, 3, 5 and 6 tension rods. I was finding some of the readings to be a bit wish washy. I don't want to have to interpret which readings are more accurate than others. This unit is supposed to expedite the tuning process, this has yet to be proven to me.


Dennis
Dennis,
Pardon me if I am mistaken, but it appears to me you are not using the filter mode properly. I will attempt to explain as I feel a fair number of users have been confused by this important feature!

So if you turn the unit on and press filter and Its set to 0hz, it will be useless.

In this situation, or whenever your tuning lugs, you should set your filter to the lug frequency. Which in this case is going to be 197 or 199 depending on which lug your hitting, any of these 190ish readings will do. After you get the correct lug reading you will then hit filter and the 197 will pop into the top corner along with an asterisk underneath. After it is set properly you can go around lug to lug and only pick up the readings of the lugs (197,198.199etc.). If the filter mode is set correctly there won't be any readings coming from the higher unwanted overtones(267hz). Which is great because these overtones arent useful for matching your lugs. The tune-bot will only be reading within a +/- 19% range of 197.

Again excuse me if I'm wrong but I think this is the problem, if so it should make using the tune-bot alot faster and easier. There is no reason you should see 267hz pop up when the filter is set to 197hz.

Also here is our video that explains the proper use of the tune-bot.I think the video review mislead some people about the filter mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b-gGk4N6p68

-thanks
 
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audiotech

Guest
You are not mistaken Sribner and there's no reason to pardon yourself. I'll experiment with your suggestion the next chance I get. I was under the impression that the filter was a fixed low pass filter with a predetermined bandpass. This still doesn't explain why moving the unit on the hoop from one place to another would cause the readings to again read properly. Same with tension rod #4, without touching the drum sometimes it would read the harmonic and sometimes it would read the fundamental frequency of the same tension rod. It's my understanding that the Tune Bot should read the same frequency on any one tension rod no matter where it's placed on the hoop.

Like I said, I'll give it another shot with this additional information.

Dennis
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Man. While you guys are figuring out filters and bypass frequencies, and where to put the thing on the drum hoop, my 6 piece set has been tuned. And I bought two new sets of heads for $99.00
 

Sribner

Junior Member
You are not mistaken Sribner and there's no reason to pardon yourself. I'll experiment with your suggestion the next chance I get. I was under the impression that the filter was a fixed low pass filter with a predetermined bandpass. This still doesn't explain why moving the unit on the hoop from one place to another would cause the readings to again read properly. Same with tension rod #4, without touching the drum sometimes it would read the harmonic and sometimes it would read the fundamental frequency of the same tension rod. It's my understanding that the Tune Bot should read the same frequency on any one tension rod no matter where it's placed on the hoop.

Like I said, I'll give it another shot with this additional information.

Dennis
cool,
as far as the two different readings. The two overtones are going on at once. The tuner will only display one of the two. By default the tuner will display the louder of the two frequencies. In one spot, the lower frequency must be louder. In the other spot the other frequency is louder. Anyway using the filter mode you can limit the readings to the lug overtones, which are what needs to be matched to get the drum "in tune with itself" . Hopefully by evening the tuning you can also reduce this higher overtone giving the drum a nicer sound.

With a circular membrane such as a drum head, the overtones are not harmonically related to the fundamental. They are not integer multiples of the fundamental frequency like we see on other instruments (guitar etc.)
 
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audiotech

Guest
Nice report back Dennis, & one with the credibility of your ear attached. Can you kindly clear something up for me, does this product have a defined listening point (i.e. a hole in the front of it)? In other words, can you point it at the source you want it to major on? If not, I'm thinking it might be picking up much of it's source from the hoop it's attached to, & that could certainly account for the unit picking up 3rds or other sympathetic tones.

Overall, it seems this unit's too much like hard work, & certainly even more difficult to use in a noisy stage environment, & that's a shame, because it's the one area I could envisage me benefiting from using the product. I eagerly await further feedback :)
The sound port are these two vertical openings at the bottom of the unit. When installed on the drum hoop, these ports are situated about 25mm or about 1" in and over the drum head. It's approximately 15mm or 5/8" above the head.

The second photo is of an electret microphone. It measures about 10mm across the head and needs a small voltage of about 2 to 10 volts to operate it. I don't really know if this is the same style sampling microphone as what's in the Tune Bot, but these are fairly common. This type of element is also used in handheld commercial and ham radio microphones.

This too is a bit frustrating for me. If the problem happens to be the way I'm operating the unit, then it's a bit embarrassing on my part. I believe I should not be getting conflicting readings no matter what, especially when nothing physically or electronically gets changed but the readings vary quite a bit. I'll look into it again soon with the information that I received from Sribner.





Dennis
 

Embalmer

Senior Member
I thought I'd chime in, since I was the originator of the other Tune-Bot thread. I also experienced the frequency issue. But you know what? When I struck the head, and I could hear the note was similar to the other lugs, and the Tune-Bot showed a much higher or lower frequency, I automatically assumed it was picking up these other frequencies. So, step 1 is to hit a known "good lug", then step 2 is to press the filter key, thus enabling the Tune-Bot to tune out the unwanted readings. It's that simple, folks!
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
So, step 1 is to hit a known "good lug", then step 2 is to press the filter key, thus enabling the Tune-Bot to tune out the unwanted readings. It's that simple, folks!
That "simple" explanation should be in the manual! (I bet it's in there somewhere!) And I probably should have spent more time reading directions instead of just pressing "POWER" and grabbing the drum key.

This product identifies a "number" (actually a frequency reading) that I can associate to a tone. Since I've struggled with tuning in the past, I see it as a unification of technology and art.

It probably serves those like me that aren't pro tuners, because the pros don't need to see numbers, they can "hear" them.
 
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audiotech

Guest
After following the directions that were told to me by Scribner, I had better results using the "filter" mode, but I am still having very erratic readings on the display. Some readings will still vary about 16 hertz just by hitting the same area in front of a tension rod. So far I haven't been able to tune this 12" drum well enough for use or to my liking using the Tune Bot. What I did do was I purchased a Tune Bot of my own. Now I actually have two in my possession. The first chance I have I will compare both units and this time I'll be using my 12" Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute rack tom, just for a fresh approach. My girlfriend said that she had very similar experiences that I had on Friday when she re-headed my DW Classic drums and these drums always tune without any hassle. She was hearing varying results in pitch when adjusting the tension rods from what the read-out was showing. She is a solo vocalist with virtually perfect pitch, a musician that plays drums, guitar and clarinet and has been tuning drums for more than thirty years. This is the primary reason why I decided to try another Tune Bot to see if I get varying results between units.

Experimenting with the Tune Bot during a drum tracking session, I did find a use for it that hadn't first come to mind. More on this later.

Dennis
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
Used the Tune-Bot for a few hours yesterday. The more I use it the better it seems to work. I'm getting much more consistant numbers now than when I first brought it home. Some key things have been to use the Filter properly, stretch the head in between each full adjustment and consistant and even striking of the drum head at each lug. Something else, not in the manual, is to turning the device off and then back on to get rid of the aberrant, high readings from overtones. I noticed just moving my finger around would not get rid of them. Speaking of which, I don't like using my finger to mute the head. I think it adds too many variables as far as trying to keep the pressure and point of contact consistant. So I take all my reading hands off.

I really like the Note feature. Since I tune my kit to Notes I can take a drum, bring it up to approximate frequency, take note of which Note it's at and then fine tune it to the Note I want it to be at. Cool.
 
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iontheable

Senior Member
Used the Tune-Bot for a few hours yesterday. The more I use it the better it seems to work. I'm getting much more consistant numbers now than when I first brought it home. Some key things have been to use the Filter properly, stretch the head in between each full adjustment and consistant and even striking of the drum head at each lug. Something else, not in the manual, is to turning the device off and then back on to get rid of the aberrant, high readings from overtones. I noticed just moving my finger around would not get rid of them. Speaking of which, I don't like using my finger to mute the head. I think it adds too many variables as far as trying to keep the pressure and point of contact consistant. So I take all my reading hands off.

I really like the Note feature. Since I tune my kit to Notes I can take a drum, bring it up to approximate frequency, take note of which Note it's at and then fine tune it to the Note I want it to be at. Cool.
On my phone, so bare with me:

For all of you that prefer to tune your heads to note values: how do you create complimentary tones between the top and bottom head? Also, if anyone has some interesting tonal setups: Share!
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
On my phone, so bare with me:

For all of you that prefer to tune your heads to note values: how do you create complimentary tones between the top and bottom head? Also, if anyone has some interesting tonal setups: Share!
I'm newer to tuning my kit to Notes so the following webpage helped. Using that chart and the Note Frequency Chart supplied with the Tune-Bot I have been able to tune my kit to have each size drum harmonically compliment the other. Be sure to read the paragraphs below the chart for an explanation to your question.

http://www.sticksandstaves.com/index.php?id=14
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
On my phone, so bare with me:

For all of you that prefer to tune your heads to note values: how do you create complimentary tones between the top and bottom head? Also, if anyone has some interesting tonal setups: Share!
I 1st had to decide on what notes my drums would be tuned to. For my 10" tom, I chose C#. To get this, I tuned both the batter and reso lugs to 220 each. I think that gave me a C. Then I further tightend the reso to 230/lug. I like a shorter sustain, while others like both reso and batter the same tone. It has a nice pitch blend/decay to it.

What I found interesting was when I hit the mounted drum in the center, the htz drop down to 135 = C#.

My 12" tom is tuned to a G# with 176 htz on the batter lugs and 191 on the reso. The overall tone is 106 htz. I tightened the reso's on these more. Seems that my larger drums have a longer decay.

14" Floor tom: 152 htz / lug on batter; 200 htz / lug on reso = G overall (99 htz)
16" Floor tom: 142 htz/ lug on batter; 202 htz/ lug on reso = F# overall (93 htz)

So far, they seem to sound well together as a kit.

All my snares are fricken cranked on the batter, and a bit more on the reso. The suggested frequencies in the manual are a little bit high for me.
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
I'm newer to tuning my kit to Notes so the following webpage helped. Using that chart and the Note Frequency Chart supplied with the Tune-Bot I have been able to tune my kit to have each size drum harmonically compliment the other. Be sure to read the paragraphs below the chart for an explanation to your question.

http://www.sticksandstaves.com/index.php?id=14
AW MAN! Where was this last week??!!

Great reference and info! I was looking for something like this to at least have some sort of reference.

My drums are pretty close to that first chart. I purposely tuned my 16" tom a little tighter because the damn thing sounded like a bass drum :). I even had to throw on a home made ritchie ring to shorten the decay.

Cool info!
 

Mike Armstrong

Senior Member
AW MAN! Where was this last week??!!

Great reference and info! I was looking for something like this to at least have some sort of reference.

My drums are pretty close to that first chart. I purposely tuned my 16" tom a little tighter because the damn thing sounded like a bass drum :). I even had to throw on a home made ritchie ring to shorten the decay.

Cool info!
Glad to help Big.

I printed that chart and added the frequencies to it starting with C= C2/65.4Hz up to B= B3/246.9Hz.

Your right about tuning the bottom and top head to a certain Hz but the end result of striking the drum head is a different Hz. I like allot of sustain so I tune my batter and reso to the same Hz while keeping in mind that the drum won't be that Hz overall when struck. For example, my 10" Tom is tuned to D3, so the batter and reso are both tuned to 240Hz but when the drum head is struck it reads 144Hz.

I still think even though that Drum Tuning Chart suggests a Note range for each size drum, the actual Note of that particular drum, due to it's wood type, construction, hardware, ect,ect, will only be one Note that it best resonates to or sounds best at. So I'm taking each drum, tuning it to each of the suggested notes for it's size, writing down what that batter/reso Hz value is and then finding which one of those Notes that particular drum resonates to best. Hopefully each size drum will best resonate to a note that allows for them all to line up harmonically. It's time consuming but interesting at the same time :)
 
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tard

Gold Member
AW MAN! Where was this last week??!!

Great reference and info! I was looking for something like this to at least have some sort of reference.

My drums are pretty close to that first chart. I purposely tuned my 16" tom a little tighter because the damn thing sounded like a bass drum :). I even had to throw on a home made ritchie ring to shorten the decay.

Cool info!
You must have hit it pretty much bang on, I find 16's seem to resonate forever when you nail the tuning, could be the extra depth or something. As Nigel Tufnel said about his guitar sustain, "you can go and have a bite and youd still be hearing that one"
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
Glad to help Big.

So I've taking each drum, tuning it to each of the suggested notes for it's size, writing down what the batter/reso Hz value is to get that Note and find which of those Notes that particular drum resonates to. Hopefully each size drum will best resonate to a note that allows for them all to line up harmonically. It's time consuming but interesting at the same time :)
When I started with the 10" tom, I thought it sounded great. But when I lined all the drums up, it was a bit too low. Then I had to start all over, which like you have said, is time consuming. (But a heck of a lot easier now than using my piano and raw tuning skills). It's good to know that If I decide to change the whole tuning scheme, I have some help.

yeah, I've got notes and frequencies written all over the edges of my drum heads! :)
 

BigDinSD

Gold Member
You must have hit it pretty much bang on, I find 16's seem to resonate forever when you nail the tuning, could be the extra depth or something. As Nigel Tufnel said about his guitar sustain, "you can go and have a bite and youd still be hearing that one"
I just got back from lunch and it finally stopped resonating...
 

wloeb

Senior Member
Hello,

I purchased a tune-bot this weekend and have been experimenting with it. I think that it's an amazing tool and it is helping me develop my own each. I tuned up two of my drumsets using it and had no problem at all. I did read the manual as well as this thread. I think that those who are getting erratic results are not using the filter button properly. I tapped a couple inches from each lug around the drum and noticed which one was reading the lowest then hit the filter button. The filter only allows notes close to the held note to register and therefore prevents picking up overtones.

I tuned the top and bottom heads to the same note starting with my lowest floor tom and increasing a perfect fourth for each drum. I tuned with the other opposite head muffled.

Hear is my tuning


Size lug pitch Drum pitch Closest note
16x14___110______65.9________2C
14x12___147______84.6________2E
12x8____196______115.7_______2A#
10x7____262______125.5_______3D

The lug pitch (Hertz) is the pitch when struck 2 inches from the lug with the opposite head muted

The drum pitch (Hertz) and closest is the pitch when the drum is struck in the center unmuffled

I noticed that the drum pitch is consistently a major 6th ( nine notes) below the lug pitch
The ratio of (drum pitch)/ (lug pitch) for the four drums is .58 .59 .58 and .60 from smallest to largest.

Any there any physicists who can explain the consistent ratio of lug pitch overtone to drum pitch?


Wayne
 
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