Are we living in a "Buyer's market?"
- Thread starter IBitePrettyHard
- Start date
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Peedy
Guest
It's a tough question because the answers to it are all over the place. I think a lot of it is a common disease found on eBay (for instance) called: ItsworthmoreifIownitthanifyoudoitus. Not fatal, but your gear will languish unsold. From a seller's perspective, I tend to price things fairly and I still get buyers trying to lowball the crud out of me. It just comes down to a bottom line price that I would rather keep it than sell it, below a certain amount.
From a buyer's perspective, there are just lots of times when I decide I can live without something for now, or maybe ever.
Pete
From a buyer's perspective, there are just lots of times when I decide I can live without something for now, or maybe ever.
Pete
IBitePrettyHard
Senior Member
Have any of you been tempted to message people on FB or Craigslist to say their drums will never sell in a million years at that price? I sure have, haha.
It's usually a Pearl Export bundled with cheap cymbals and a cheap double pedal for $1200.
One guy in particular had this massive Tama kit that must've been 15 years old, with what looked like 20 years worth of accumulated gear, dozens of cymbals and accessories...for a ludicrous amount like $5000 or $7000. And he insisted on selling all of it TOGETHER. lol
It's usually a Pearl Export bundled with cheap cymbals and a cheap double pedal for $1200.
One guy in particular had this massive Tama kit that must've been 15 years old, with what looked like 20 years worth of accumulated gear, dozens of cymbals and accessories...for a ludicrous amount like $5000 or $7000. And he insisted on selling all of it TOGETHER. lol
I did something like this with a car I wanted. It had a small issue, I knew what was and how to fix the issue. My wife still wouldn't agree to me buying it. I sent him a message telling him what was wrong and how to fix it. The ad was removed shortly thereafter.
I would LOVE to tell these people their stuff won't sell. But they won't listen. I think the rule goes: my stuff is gold, their stuff is crap, buy my stuff
danondrums
Well-known Member
It's an annoying market. That's about all I know. Buyers are annoying, sellers are annoying. Just annoying for the most part.
People should list items for the minimum they're willing to take and move on. People's desire to haggle and waste time over $10-20 in one direction or another are the worst people on the planet.
People should list items for the minimum they're willing to take and move on. People's desire to haggle and waste time over $10-20 in one direction or another are the worst people on the planet.
Push pull stroke
Platinum Member
Well, I’d say most of the sellers and buyers are more or less OK. However, having said that, there are some jackasses that really have stuck in my memory.
Captain Bash
Silver Member
It’s a buyers market if you are after a lower to mid level kit and or a cymbal lines that are out of vogue.
A quick inspection of eBay in the UK suggests that it’s quite possible to get a pretty decent sounding set up for less. Conversely I see “vintage“ gear like old Premiers or Haymans way over priced relative to their playability / actual sound. To a certain extent this effect is exaggerated with cymbals. For example Zildjian A customs don't fit with the dry/trash cymbal fashion trends and can be had on eBay for less than one might expect.
A quick inspection of eBay in the UK suggests that it’s quite possible to get a pretty decent sounding set up for less. Conversely I see “vintage“ gear like old Premiers or Haymans way over priced relative to their playability / actual sound. To a certain extent this effect is exaggerated with cymbals. For example Zildjian A customs don't fit with the dry/trash cymbal fashion trends and can be had on eBay for less than one might expect.
gdmoore28
Gold Member
Are you talking about their asking prices? Because I watch the market all the time, and most sellers still think that the market is the same as ten, even five years ago. It's not. Not even on vintage gear. Sellers are still asking premium prices - and sitting on that gear for a long, long time. We're back to the time when an average Ludwig five-piece kit is selling for $500-600.
The only drums still bringing high prices are the rare sets that people like Steve Maxwell sells. There will always be well-heeled collectors willing to pay top dollars for the truly hard-to-find gear.
GeeDeeEmm
Only stuff I'm buying from here on out is stuff I want to keep 'til I'm toes up. Many states are forcing collection of state sales tax by online retailers. Of course that's tacked on to the price you're paying. I had one last kit I needed to get rid of and it was REALLY hard to sell at what was a fair price. I actually got into argument with a guy from Craigslist. I finally told him I wouldn't sell it to him no matter what and to stop contacting me. I'm down to one kit and a couple nice snares. I could see maybe getting one more quality kit at some point but that would be it.
Chunkaway
Silver Member
Check out Wood and Weather's gear, their prices, and how much they are getting. There was a 4 piece 1967 Ludwig champagne sparkle set (20/14/12) in good - not great - condition that recently sold for $2k. There have been several I have seen in the price range. Maybe that isn't the case with everyone, but a couple of years ago that kit would have sold for $1500.
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DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
Yes. On many levels.
Largely due, over the last 10 or so years, manufactures making more and more kits with high-end features at mid-range prices.
Drums like Gretsch Calatina and Renown lines, Mapex Armory, 101 variations of Pearl and Tama, Yamaha Tour, PDP, etc, etc flooded the market with nice drums that don't cost an arm and leg.
And then there are the 101 smaller manufactures that have popped up over the last 10-20 years, making good quality drums.
And the big manufacturers keep coming up with new variations. The last NAMM show I was at 2 years ago, Pearl had easily double the number of lines it had back when I worked for a top Pearl dealer. At the DW booth, some of the DW (non-collector lines) and PDP stuff was so close in the description, I had to ask what the difference is, and I still am not sure. And the list goes on.
In general, one can buy a mid-line kit now that would be on par of a high-end kit from 30 years ago.
So, as these increased choices hit the new market, they even eventually hit the used market.
Now, if you want a decent quality drum kit, you have so many choices.
And then it comes into, why pay $3000 for a top-end kit when a $1500 kit is close? And why pay $1500 when a used version can be had for $900?
And if you can get a used 1/2 way decent kit for $900, the demand for the used $3000 kit goes down.
Sure, there will always be exceptions for certain rare/vintage kits.
But so much very nice stuff is widely available.
And then, as mentioned, Ebay used to be the only game in town and was largely just individual sellers. Now ebay has a ton of competition, and many sellers on such sites are more than just a person trying to sell something out of their garage.
I don't look at used kits very often, but when I do, I'm surprised to see some of the same sets still for sale months or years later.
Largely due, over the last 10 or so years, manufactures making more and more kits with high-end features at mid-range prices.
Drums like Gretsch Calatina and Renown lines, Mapex Armory, 101 variations of Pearl and Tama, Yamaha Tour, PDP, etc, etc flooded the market with nice drums that don't cost an arm and leg.
And then there are the 101 smaller manufactures that have popped up over the last 10-20 years, making good quality drums.
And the big manufacturers keep coming up with new variations. The last NAMM show I was at 2 years ago, Pearl had easily double the number of lines it had back when I worked for a top Pearl dealer. At the DW booth, some of the DW (non-collector lines) and PDP stuff was so close in the description, I had to ask what the difference is, and I still am not sure. And the list goes on.
In general, one can buy a mid-line kit now that would be on par of a high-end kit from 30 years ago.
So, as these increased choices hit the new market, they even eventually hit the used market.
Now, if you want a decent quality drum kit, you have so many choices.
And then it comes into, why pay $3000 for a top-end kit when a $1500 kit is close? And why pay $1500 when a used version can be had for $900?
And if you can get a used 1/2 way decent kit for $900, the demand for the used $3000 kit goes down.
Sure, there will always be exceptions for certain rare/vintage kits.
But so much very nice stuff is widely available.
And then, as mentioned, Ebay used to be the only game in town and was largely just individual sellers. Now ebay has a ton of competition, and many sellers on such sites are more than just a person trying to sell something out of their garage.
I don't look at used kits very often, but when I do, I'm surprised to see some of the same sets still for sale months or years later.
gdmoore28
Gold Member
Bottom line. And I just don't understand why there are apparently still people willing to pay top $$$$ for used kits (as noted by Chunkaway). Do they not research the market? Are they entranced by an individual kit and willing to pay any price to get it? Have they just heard (and mostly from the sellers of "classic" gear, I might note) that classic gear is a "good investment, and going up," as I saw one dealer post last year?
GeeDeeEmm
P
paradiddle pete
Guest
If I get what I paid for a set or a little more then I know the buyer is educated, Once they pounce on the flooded low end market for the bargain of the century then they will realise you do mostly get what you pay for. So pony up and play!
We get those here too. It's just silly.
***New Bottle of Music Nomad Guitar Polish/Last One***
Yes, I still have it, so don't ask. I've sold a number of these, this is my last one. Bottle of Music Nomad Guitar Polish $5 cash. yes I still have it.
southjersey.craigslist.org
That doesn't work for everything, unfortunately. Buyers often want to try things out, and neutral locations aren't always conducive to this. For instance, I have been trying to sell a bass head (as in, an amplifier, not Remo) for a while which is a challenge because I don't want people coming over to my house to try it out (I have no cab anyway). But, from the buyer's perspective it's obviously sketchy since they have no way then to tell if it sounds good or even works, outside of my word. So my options are to: 1. open up my home to strangers 2. sell "as-is" at a reduced price as if the amp were broken 3. offer a return policy which can cause another set of issues.
Me, when I buy something from CL I never expect to be able to try the thing out. Not everybody lives in a Guitar Center, especially in the city. And the point of CL is to get good deals, in which case you have to expect some sort of issues and be OK with it.
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They make power inverters for cars so you can plug stuff into it. Some plug into accessory sockets and cigarette lighters, some connect to the battery, and some can be hard wired into the car. This one is $50 and can do all 3. A small price to pay to keep people from going to your house.
evilg99
Platinum Member
Well...I think you can't paint the entire new/used drum market with one brush. I think certain for certain things, yes it's a buyers market. For others - it's sellers market or somewhere in between.
Used low end is flooded with gear, - so is the mid line, depending on where you are. But classic, vintage and high end are still a solid sellers' market. Vintage Japanese drums are seeing strong demand across the board - even MIJ stencil kits are sought after. Demand for Vintage American drums has never been higher.
I am constantly hearing that NEW sales are down in the big box stores, and many cite that as a global downturn in drum sales - but what about the abundance of used and consigned gear now available, and more accessible than ever before? Not just eBay and Reverb but all the local classifieds and Facebook marketplace, etc etc. It's never been easier to unload used gear, especially if you are reasonable with your asking prices.
Used low end is flooded with gear, - so is the mid line, depending on where you are. But classic, vintage and high end are still a solid sellers' market. Vintage Japanese drums are seeing strong demand across the board - even MIJ stencil kits are sought after. Demand for Vintage American drums has never been higher.
I am constantly hearing that NEW sales are down in the big box stores, and many cite that as a global downturn in drum sales - but what about the abundance of used and consigned gear now available, and more accessible than ever before? Not just eBay and Reverb but all the local classifieds and Facebook marketplace, etc etc. It's never been easier to unload used gear, especially if you are reasonable with your asking prices.