(This isn't directed to you Polly, you know where I'm coming from) How hard is it to accept that it isn't these kind of people (myself included) that are to blame. Some of us just are born different. And trying to like what other people like to listen to around you becomes a burden. I hate to sound like a broken record on this board but I say it again, if I have listened to free jazz and jazz fusion from womb till I was 13, how could the popular music impact me the same way? It's not my language. It's not like I have made myself numb or eccentric just because I _want_ to be different. I have been made that way.Really good observation - "Where the players have exhausted themselves in some conventional musical vein and the only way forward for them is to be more and more outside".
And I don't like the term intellectual in music. I don't listen to jazz because it should be intellectual. I listen to it because it can affect my emotions. It's emotional music I'm after. I liked metal really really much when I was teenager and I had lots of anger to project. Now I don't have that anger anymore, at least not so often, so that kind of music doesn't speak to me that much. But even when I was listening to heavier stuff, it wasn't the easiest rhythmic stuff because of my background, but being intelligent doesn't have anything to do with it. The guy who made the greatest musical piece can be retarded. I don't care.