Are guns killing live music?

Status
Not open for further replies.

mikyok

Platinum Member
Idiots in general are killing live events not just gigs.

The summer attacks we've had in the UK have been a real eye opener. It makes you realise you are a sitting duck if you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time. You shouldn't be afraid to be off guard and enjoy yourself.

I've been to the MEN Arena that was bombed a few times and know exactly where it happened.

I was in Manchester a week later at Old Trafford and as a result 75000 people were scanned with metal detectors.

Not long after the attacks in London I was there to see Primus and I was having second thoughts. In all the bombings/shootings it's way too easy for them to do it.
 

Juniper

Gold Member
I don't think these tragedies are effecting live music in terms of crowd numbers going to shows.

You can't live your life in fear but I guess one positive is that there is (mostly) a higher element of security at big events now.

It's a very big, bittersweet positive though.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
It can happen anywhere.

It happened here. Most unlikely of all places. Still makes no sense, but I meet people as stupid as that guy every day.

I think the big message is to take care of eachother and we as humans generally still have a long way to go there. Sadly I'm an example there, in the most unlikely profession, but I'm finalicing my first police reports that probably won't, but should eventually, in a fair world, send a couple of people to jail.

I know what it's like to be in a psychosis from abuse and getting no support. I understand how some people can reach that point. All I've ever gotten is very strange unsolicited advice from people with about half my intelligence.

Yes, this discussion will probably end up in directions not suitable for a forum. Those things we are not supposed to discuss are at the heart of the problem, though. We still discriminate people for not being part of our little groups. We still shun or imprison people for saying "the earth revolves around the sun." Fix that and we have fixed everyting.

Now, for the people that end up doing acts like these.... If there is a way, they'll find it. Controlling certain short term events have a small effect, but there really isn't much you can do and things like air port security.... Think about it. It's more or less a joke. They've taken my guitar string clippers a couple of times. That saved a few lives I'm sure.
 
J

JohnoWorld

Guest
I usually go with the "lalala I can't hear you" fingers in the ears type of tripe.

In any "civilised" society, we can all be murdered, raped and abused absolutely anywhere. There are many cases, in general everyday life where I see a situation and say "If I was inclined, I could kill everyone here" - as in, the possibility exists to just press a button at the wrong time and a load of people could get caught in doors.

I would also postulate that because there are so many news outlets all linking into each other, every story goes viral. What I'm saying is, I don't think that anything is being killed, or being taken advantage of, I just think that back in the day, it was easy for the media to be selective. Now they all have to be the first to report an "outrage" but they just put their own spin on it.

Look at the paedophilia epidemic in the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Nothing reported, now news is everywhere, it all came out, especially as it's in the public interest.

Personally, nothing will ever affect me, nothing will ever kill me. Muggings, rapes, beatings, it all goes on around you but you just don't see it. The more you pay attention to politics/news etc, the more scared and influenced you will become. Don't let your outrage drag you into something that just doesn't affect you. Seriously, just check the odds of being injured or killed at a gig, its way more dangerous on the roads

Ignorance is bliss my friends
 

DrumWild

Senior Member
It almost seems like a lottery draw. You know someone is going to win that jackpot, but the chances are great that it will not be you.

You can bet that something bad will happen somewhere today. Chances are great that it will not happen to you.

I won't let it affect how I live my life. I have people who know me, who want me dead. They send emails. I report them to authorities, and then I go about living. It won't last forever. Security is an illusion. Door locks only keep out the good, honest people.

"There'll be war, there'll be peace
But everything one day will cease
All the iron turns to rust
All the proud men turn to dust
And so all things, time will mend
So this song will end."

"Childhood's End" - Pink Floyd
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
On the ignorance is bliss comment. Nothing could be more true. I worked for three different TV news stations and I can say with 100% certainty news is BS and mostly made up. The media is creating news with their lies and irresponsiblity. While the Vegas story isn’t fake, the @$$ clown no doubt drank a steady diet of news. I’m sure that’s what will eventually come out if not already.

There was a time when things were reported. Today, something small happens and it’s spun and spun and spun polarizing the unsuspecting. It’s a very irresponsible time we live in followed by the fear of profiling. It’s all a great mix to set the stage for even more deaths and pain.

Some people are just sensitive to things others aren’t. Most of us watch a series where our favorite charactor dies and think, bummer, what will will happen next. I used to get calls from people threatening to kill themselves when this would happen. Worse cases were when a Star Trek Series would end! People believe that stuff! Today, mostly due to the irresponsibility of news, people want to take you out with them. Be it guns, knives, trucks, arson, whatever.

TV news was a downright vile environment that eats the brains of everyone who works in it. Everyone walks around like a bunch of zombies making crap up. The final straw for me was being sent out on a story, then being told I had to look for an ‘angle.’ Wasn’t the first time. I had debated leaving the petre dish behind many times, but knew it was going to be financially risky. They helped me out by ‘letting me go’. I never had the desire to return to that cesspool again. It’s become much worse than it ever was, and the stakes are much higher. They are effectively using news stories to get their base to do their bidding.

May sound far fetched to some, but if you worked in the environment just long enough to see it and not get sucked in, you know what I’m talking about.
 

Mike Stand

Silver Member
Wise words to all the members, this is not a political issue. I do think it's possible to discuss the potential dangers of open-air events.

Bermuda
Yes, large venue security can certainly be discussed in a manner completely detached from other issues.

If this thread can help inform those of us who are regularly involved in large-scale events that attract big crowds, then it has a purpose I suppose. But I understand that to mean that the discussion is strictly limited to very basic talk of security procedures and measures.

In that sense I feel it will be a sadly frustrating and limiting thread as we'll be constrained to discuss how to "live with a problem" rather than "solve a problem".

All the posts with well-meaning philisophical remarks are a tribute to our forum members, but they do little to address the topic I'm afraid.

The moderators have kindly and rightly pointed out that the topic must be discussed in isolation to other related issues but still allowed the thread to continue, once again showing themselves to be fair guardians of this forum.
However, I do feel that this thread is like a dog being kept on a very short lead. And, like Matt, I would be concerned that someone eventually let's that dog loose.

So, unless we soon see more posts with factual and useful information regarding security at venues, I for one would not be unhappy to see the curtain close on this thread.

In no way am I advocating censorship or seeking a confrontation. This will be my only post on this thread.

Just saying, if we're limited in the discussion of the actual topic and there's a risk of it going downhill, why bother at all?

I say all this with the utmost appreciation for the work of the mods and hope this will help them decide when/whether to intervene.

This is still a drum forum, right?
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
2 sides to this. The wife came back from Vegas that evening and was walking down there earlier. It is very tragic but just shows there are idiot nutjobs everywhere.

Being such a money making place they will say it was a one off, step up security for a bit, and sweep it under the rug ASAP to fill the hotels and casinos.

I think people are going to start not wanting to take the floor seats at shows, be close to an exit, have an exit plan etc when going to these concerts. Maybe if your at an outdoor show you want to be close to the gate or somewhere you can sneak off rather than in the very middle of the group.

I like indoor shows with metal detectors. Hockey games and nightclubs too.

At the end of the day life is short, this is a reminder that you never know, so go out and live it.
 
News is mostly made up? The sports? The weather? The reporting about car wrecks, fires, shootings, city council meetings?

I don't watch TV news because it's 100 percent fear-based (ie., we keep you safe from bad weather), but saying news is mostly false is 100 percent B.S.

I'd love to hear about some of the stories you made up at 3 TV stations, though.

One more thought on this: During WW II, Winston Churchill was asked if it was appropriate for older gentleman to play golf (far from London) when Nazis were bombing the city. He said something like, "Our way of life is precisely what we're fighting for."
 
Last edited:

DrumWild

Senior Member
The difficult, tricky thing about this particular scenario is that the guy was not in the venue. No amount of concert security would have prevented it.

I'd probably be okay with the thread being closed as well. There will be discussions about gun control, mental health, fighting, finger-pointing, blame assignment, and other nonsense from two dogmatic, unthinking sides of the fence who both believe that their team right and the other team is wrong.

And then, it will be back to business as usual.

I don't think the concert security team could have done anything more, unless they're going into the realm of securing nearby buildings.

Gets me thinking about The Hollywood Bowl. Will they have troops on patrol in the hills above?

Book depository?

It's all above my pay grade and outside my realm of expertise. If I think that I have a good idea, then I'll email it to my representatives.

Drum, drum, drum...
 

DrumWild

Senior Member
Fear is our biggest, most widely produced product in America. Getting sucked into it can be damaging.

The experts call it "engagement." So when you see a video or story that upsets you, and you get wrapped up in the comments, you are engaged.

The more engagement you have, the more money your advertisers are willing to pay.

This does not come without a price.

There's a great documentary called "The Brainwashing of My Dad," which explains one family's journey in great detail.
 

DrumWild

Senior Member
"Engagement" is a concept that has only recently been understood and actively employed. In the past, it was a mystery.

This scene from the 1997 Howard Stern movie "Private Parts" illustrates the power of engagement, long before the term or concept even existed.

Keep people angry, afraid, and confused. Tell them things that confirm their beliefs. Keep the bubble strong.

Back then, it was a case of offending sensibilities. Now, it's about re-enforcement.

There's big money in it. Lives? Community? Culture? Sanity? None of it as important as a dollar.
 
G

Ghostnote

Guest
I doubt that occurrences like this have much, if any, effect on the attendance of these types of events beyond some of the people who were unlucky enough to have expeirnced something like this first-hand.

The general sentiment nowadays is that the world is increasingly crazy and dangerous place all the time. In reality, increased media coverage/social media/everyone having a cell phone in their pocket makes it seem like there is more craziness going on than ever. Statistics show that there has always been a constantly unwavering percentage of the general population which becomes unhinged and carries out these unfortunate acts. With population growth, the overall number of events increases, but only at a rate congruent with the rate of the increase in population.

Technology plays a factor too though. Just like there has always been bullying, but social media and cell phones put more power in the hands of the bullies, people who chose to carry out these kinds of attacks have more assets and options at their disposal all the time as tech and the exchange of information constantly ups the ante.

Personally, something like the shootings in Las Vegas wouldn't disuade me from attending a big outdoor show at all. If you looked at the number of people that something as tragic as this has happened to compared to the overa number of people who have ever attended a show, it would equate to an incredibly miniscule percentage. The probability of being struck by lightning would be greater.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
News is mostly made up? The sports? The weather? The reporting about car wrecks, fires, shootings, city council meetings?

I don't watch TV news because it's 100 percent fear-based (ie., we keep you safe from bad weather), but saying news is mostly false is 100 percent B.S.

I'd love to hear about some of the stories you made up at 3 TV stations, though.

One more thought on this: During WW II, Winston Churchill was asked if it was appropriate for older gentleman to play golf (far from London) when Nazis were bombing the city. He said something like, "Our way of life is precisely what we're fighting for."
Well, if you consider how much time is spent delivering the weather or sports, compared to other stories, then yes, it's mostly made up. Of course things happen. They just don't happen the way you think. I spent most of my time as a script writer and editor. Most of my concentration was on the human interest stories, because that's where it was "safe" from making up BS. On the editing side, how you cut, where you cut, shortening and lengthening videos totally changes the feel. That's where things started getting patchy for me. "Cut to that scene first, because it raises the level of anxiety," Cut in closer, so the crowd looks bigger. At an event where 12 protesters showed up, it was reported as 100s with multiple different angled shots to "prove" it. Close up of people shouting, close up of signs, close up of feet walking, with an opening statement saying 100s showed in protest......

Sorry bud, news may not be 100% BS, but there are 100% BS stories. One public figure does something and the story gets scrubbed and another does the same thing and he/she gets a full blown assault on every fabric of their lives and ultimately destroyed. I couldn't live with myself and when I said no more, I was gone. I had no problem reporting, editing, or writing scripts for anything true. Making up crap was well out of my comfort zone and if I wanted to get any promotions, I had to learn to dish it.

Ultimately, we all have to choose if we believe the news or not. From a former insider, I'll tell you it's dangerous. Keep in mind if it bleeds it leads. If it doesn't bleed, it's either made to bleed or it's tossed out. Getting it first is what's important and when you don't have all the info, you speculate. Speculation is almost always wrong, so BS. By the time the real story unfolds, people have already run with the BS, the network got paid by their sponsors for the number of viewers they sucked in at the time, and the news department is off to the next story. Teasers and bumps are all designed to keep you locked in, so you don't switch the channel.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Well, if you consider how much time is spent delivering the weather or sports, compared to other stories, then yes, it's mostly made up. Of course things happen. They just don't happen the way you think. I spent most of my time as a script writer and editor. Most of my concentration was on the human interest stories, because that's where it was "safe" from making up BS. On the editing side, how you cut, where you cut, shortening and lengthening videos totally changes the feel. That's where things started getting patchy for me. "Cut to that scene first, because it raises the level of anxiety," Cut in closer, so the crowd looks bigger. At an event where 12 protesters showed up, it was reported as 100s with multiple different angled shots to "prove" it. Close up of people shouting, close up of signs, close up of feet walking, with an opening statement saying 100s showed in protest......
US Network News in "News" in the same analogous manner that WWE Raw is "Wrestling".

;-)
 
J

JohnoWorld

Guest
Let's not close this thread, I think the responses so far have shown that the users on this forum have their emotions under control and are genuine human beings.

So to add to the thread:

I visited Bangalore a few months ago with work. Every single hotel, shopping centre and office had gate security with sniffer dogs and the whole car was checked. Then when we went into the building, all of our bags and our bodies were scanned airport style. My boss kept having to have "personal" inspection for some reason, made us laugh.

This would work in hotels, venues, offices etc but it can't stop everything. It would at least show that there was a moron bringing in an arsenal.

I think I might buy shares in baggage scanning equipment companies :)
 

Ohio

Member
Guns are not killing live music..

With that said, its not the guns its the person(s) wielding them. Unfortunately, in todays world with all the social media, and propaganda and hatred, its easy to see large venues as targets, because its about the sensationalism in the media etc etc..

certain things do not add up with this attack.. i wont discuss all that here.. but as they say something smells fishy..

I think football stadiums are the way to go because you cant hardly sneak a fart into one of those without being busted. Here in OHIO, I attend an OSU game and they have snipers setup all around ready to plug the cancer from the crowd. Stadiums I feel offer a better avenue to control and prevent these things from happening..

not much you can do with being shot at from a hotel room that looks over the venue.. I guess when venues are planned like that, they need to look into the same security details as say head of state to identify and advise.

Sad situation, but the fleece of control is just that a fleece. When someone is hell bent on something they will see it through positive or negative.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top