Applying Drumming Patterns to Ted Reed book Combo Syncopation & Rolls

beet

Well-known member
Using the 36 examples in the Combination of Syncopation and Rolls book by Ted Reed, I did some analysis using the Drumming Patterns (DP) book concepts. I started by changing strokes to R and rests to L. Then, the examples were converted into patterns. The hope is to get a better understanding of patterns.

The Drumming Patterns thread is here:

The DP main patterns don't include consecutive triple and higher strokes. These are supposedly handled elsewhere per prior thread. So, let's start off with the patterns with doubles and lower, and handle the others later.

The Syncopation examples with two or fewer consecutive Rs or Ls are here (matching DP pattern references in parenthesis with "iteration" offset in bold):
1. RRLRRLRL (8E, LRLRRLRR)
2. RLRRLRRL (8E, LRLRRLRR)
3. RLRLRRLR (8E, LRLRRLRR)
10. LRLRRLRL (8A, RLRRLRLL) [8A is a paradiddle]
11. RLRLLRLR (8A, RLRRLRLL)
14. LRLRRLRR (8E, LRLRRLRR)
16. LRRLRRLR (8E, LRLRRLRR)
20. RRLRLLRL (8A, RLRRLRLL)
21. RRLRLRRL (8E, LRLRRLRR)
22. RLRRLRLR (8E, LRLRRLRR)
27. LRLRLRRL (8B, RLRLRRLL)
31. RLLRLRLR (8B, RLRLRRLL)
32. LRLRRLLR (8B, RLRLRRLL)
33. RLLRLRLL (8D, RLRLLRLL)
35. RLRRLRLL (8A, RLRRLRLL)
36. LRLRLLRR (8C, LRLRLLRR)

So, these 16 match a Drumming Patterns pattern or are an "iteration" of that pattern, meaning the starting point is offset. More information on "iterations" is in the book. Patterns and their Iterations is a large portion of the beginning chapter.

For instance, #1 RRLRRLRL is from 8E. 8E is listed as L+R+L+RR+L+RR or LRLRRLRR. If we start from the 4th digit (highlighted), LRLRRLRR becomes RRLRRLRL, which is Reed book example #1.

So, the DP book is supposed to have found patterns in use (those that are useful) and has documented them in the book. In this case, the Reed book patterns (2 or fewer consecutive Rs or Ls) are actually found there.

So, trying the DP patterns and using the iterations listed can potentially be useful for finding desirable rhythmic patterns. There are Youtube videos of specific R/L patterns. The DP book has a whole lot of them.

For the others with consecutive 3+ digits, I have other thoughts and will post them shortly.
 
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beet

Well-known member
The other patterns:
3 consecutive:
4: RRLRLRLR
5: RRLRRRLR
12: LRLRLRLL
18: RRLRRLLR
19: RLLRRRLR
26: LRLRLRRR
30: LRRRLRLL
34: RRLLRLLR

(note: pattern 4 above doesn't look like there are three consecutive digits but it becomes apparent when the pattern is repeated, for instance, RRLRLRLRRRLRLRLR.)

4 consecutive
6: RRLRRRRL
7: RRLRRLRR
8: RRRLRRLR
9: RLRRRRLR
13: RRRLLRLR
15: LRLRRRRL
24: RRLRLLRR
28: RRRRLRLL

5 consecutive
17: LRLRRRRR
23: RRRRLRLR
25: RRLRLRRR
29: LRRRRRLR

Fun speculation on how to handle these patterns coming soon. :)
 
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beet

Well-known member
To give a basis for some discussion of patterns, I will reference this Stanton Moore video where he alternates between two sticking patterns.

One is a J. Vidacovich pattern that he uses and other is a Stone’s Stick Control pattern that are the “same,” but with different starting points. These can both be derived from Drumming Patterns 8E (played twice to make pattern matching easier).

DP: LRLRRLRRLRLRRLRR
JV: ...RRLRRLRL
SC: .RLRRLRRL


The JV and SC stickings are also examples #1 and #2 in the Reed book.

The video is here:


I will use this idea of alternating between two patterns.
 
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beet

Well-known member
Interrupting the prior thought, I just wanted to comment how the three R or three L patterns are very similar to the main DP patterns, only slightly different. These are possibly more musically realistic patterns than the four and five R patterns so let’s pause for a moment.

For fun, let’s rewrite the patterns in the DP style. Notice some of the patterns are the “same,” i.e. iterations of the same pattern.


4: RRLRLRLR is L+R+L+R+L+RRR
5: RRLRRRLR is L+RRR+L+RRR
12: LRLRLRLL is R+L+R+L+R+LLL
18: RRLRRLLR is L+RR+LL+RRR
19: RLLRRRLR is L+RR+LL+RRR
26: LRLRLRRR is L+R+L+R+L+RRR
30: LRRRLRLL is L+R+LLL+RRR
34: RRLLRLLR is R+LL+RRR+LL

Examples 4 and 26 are iterations of the same pattern. Examples 18 and 19 are iterations of the same pattern.

We now have some example patterns of 8 digits that contain RRR or LLL.

Let’s play with L+R+L+R+L+RRR. There is a complement of this pattern, R+L+R+L+R+LLL that we can also consider. The R/Ls are reversed. This is the same as Example 12!
 
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beet

Well-known member
So, using the Drumming Patterns concepts on RRR/LLL patterns, we notate patterns and see which of the Reed examples are actually the same or complements of another pattern. We found some associations for L+R+L+R+L+RRR.

Making iterations, we may find a pattern that we like. The iterations would be
LRLRLRRR
RLRLRRRL
LRLRRRLR
RLRRRLRL
LRRRLRLR
RRRLRLRL
RRLRLRLR
RLRLRLRR

For more on iterations, you can look at the DP book’s free Appendix. Some of these iterations may be useful to you. All of the RRR/LLL examples and their complements could be generated, iterated and explored.

These last couple of posts are to show how the Reed Examples could be further related.
 

beet

Well-known member
Let’s look at the RRRRR examples.

5 consecutive
17: LRLRRRRR
23: RRRRLRLR
25: RRLRLRRR
29: LRRRRRLR

These are all iterations of the same pattern, L+R+L+RRRRR

There are a total of 8 iterations. You can generate them yourselves and see if you like them as much as the four in the Reed book.
 

beet

Well-known member
4 consecutive
6: RRLRRRRL is L+RR+L+RRRR
7: RRLRRLRR is L+RR+L+RRRR
8: RRRLRRLR is L+RR+L+RRRR
9: RLRRRRLR is L+RR+L+RRRR
13: RRRLLRLR is R+L+RRRR+LL
15: LRLRRRRL is R+L+RRRR+LL
24: RRLRLLRR is L+R+LL+RRRR
28: RRRRLRLL is L+R+LL+RRRR

These 8 examples from the Reed book are from 3 patterns. They are iterations of these three. The complements of these patterns could be generated and all the iterations of the patterns could be made and experimented with. Hopefully that’s fun.

The Drumming Patterns book initial section has worked out those up to RR and LL patterns. There is a lot in the free section referenced in their thread.

This thread is looking at the Reed book and using the principles learned from reading the DP book.

I’m not saying my analysis is approved by the Drumming Patterns book author. These are what I gather after reading the book. I will have some further speculation that may go off tangent but that is part of the fun. 🤠
 

beet

Well-known member
If you didn’t read the original Drumming Patterns thread, you can get the 23 page free download here: https://www.jazzbandsnewyork.com/pdf_Chapter_Downloads/DP_001-023_Free_Download.pdf

Like the Stanton Moore example of alternating two patterns to essentially make one long one, we will assume we can solve all 36 Reed Examples by alternating two, 4 digit patterns. For this to work, we will do the following:

Repeat the 2 digit RL pattern to RLRL, which iterates to LRLR, RLRL and LRLR.
Iterate the 4 digit RRLL pattern to RRLL, RLLR, LLRR and LRRL.
Add the pattern RRRR.
Add the patterns RLRR and LRLL. These are two that I suggested adding in the original DP thread. Since they result in more than three letter patterns when repeated, they were not included in the main patterns. Since we are now generating patterns with more than two repeating letters, they should be acceptable. The pattern RLRR iterates to LRRR, RRRL and RRLR. The pattern LRLL iterates to RLLL, LLLR and LLRL.

With these 4 digit patterns, all of the Reed 8 digit Examples can be generated.

Is this a good method?

The items that I am adding I think are used in other chapters in the DP book so it is not completely out of sync. I am not proposing a binary combination using all patterns although it does seem that almost all possible combinations are covered.

It is something to think about. The Reed book seems to emphasize a paradiddle-like syncopation method so adding the two pieces of a paradiddle to the allowable patterns did not seem out of place.

edit: a benefit I see is from reviewing and internalizing the Reed syncopation Examples against the 4 digit patterns. It is much easier then to understand how you can improvise a syncopation pattern from what you are currently doing.
 
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beet

Well-known member
Another pattern system could be a 5+3 system of a 5 digit pattern + RRR or + LLL. This isn’t symmetrical and may not work as well but could make it easier to understand. If all the RRR and longer Examples were organized in this manner, all of the 5 digit patterns could be laid out. I wonder how many new five digit patterns are found. Its usability would probably depend on which method a person could understand and use most effectively. Something for future experimentation.

Could this be considered 5 digit patterns + filler to pad out to a total of 8 digits?

edit: I couldn’t make this work. Also, the patterns of 5 digits were definitely not easy to remember and work with like the 4+4.
 
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toddbishop

Platinum Member
Is this a good method?
I suppose it depends, if you want to work on something missing from those other books, or if it's easier to practice them written another way, then it's useful. If you just want more patterns-- idk, you might as well look up the guy who generated all possible 12 and 16 note RL sticking combinations and practice that. I think there's about 1000 pages of patterns, free to download.

To me that Reed book is fairly useless-- I practice that same stuff using the original Syncopation-- to me that's a better way to practice it, looking at a rhythm. I don't have too many other uses for 8/8 sticking patterns beyond what's in Stick Control.
 

beet

Well-known member
I suppose it depends, if you want to work on something missing from those other books, or if it's easier to practice them written another way, then it's useful. If you just want more patterns-- idk, you might as well look up the guy who generated all possible 12 and 16 note RL sticking combinations and practice that. I think there's about 1000 pages of patterns, free to download.

To me that Reed book is fairly useless-- I practice that same stuff using the original Syncopation-- to me that's a better way to practice it, looking at a rhythm. I don't have too many other uses for 8/8 sticking patterns beyond what's in Stick Control.
Thanks for reading! This is mostly analysis for understanding the concepts of patterns better, with some speculation thrown in.

For the two alternating 4 digit patterns, in the end I thought it was easier to comprehend and likely easier to use in practice. It started as an experiment.

Most sources talk about following a specific pattern and just using it blindly. I think the Drumming Patterns book has many good concepts to apply to other patterns and I used the Reed book as my test case. I’m trying and learning.

The DP book’s patterns are supposedly based on patterns in popular use and not all binary combinations. There are built-in limitations. My DP style patterns were based on Reed’s examples. A later post will likely expand on it but not go into the all mathematical combinations method.

Hopefully others can build upon ideas, clarify or state new ideas.
 

beet

Well-known member
Generating DP-style patterns without a reference can be done but the patterns may not be useful. In any case, let’s try.

Generating all patterns with RRRRR in 8 digits

RRRRR+L+R+L (used by Reed)
RRRRR+LLL (not used)
Complements:
LLLLL+R+L+R (not used)
LLLLL+RRR (not used)

Remember that a pattern like RRRRR+L+RR would be considered 7 Rs as they wrap around.

Generating for RRRR

RRRR+LL+R+L (used)
RRRR+L+RR+L (used)
RRRR+L+R+LL (used)
RRRR+LLLL (not used)
Complements:
LLLL+RR+L+R (not used)
LLLL+R+LL+R (not used)
LLLL+R+L+RR (not used)
LLLL+RRRR is an iteration of RRRR+LLLL and would not be listed.

Generating for RRR
RRR+L+RRR+L (used)
RRR+L+RR+LL (used)
RRR+L+R+L+R+L (used)
RRR+LL+RR+L (not used)
RRR+LL+R+LL (used)
RRR+L+R+LLL (used)
RRR+LLL+R+L (not used)
Complements: (not used)
LLL+R+LLL+R
LLL+R+LL+RR
LLL+R+L+R+L+R
LLL+RR+LL+R
LLL+RR+L+RR
LLL+R+L+RRR is an iteration of RRRLLLRL
LLL+RRR+L+R is an iteration of RRRLRLLL

Is that all of them?
 
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