Applying clear coat to bearing edge of drum?

Andy hope you are still on staff
I wanted to contact you on the Guru Bearing Edge on what router bit you used . Also I wanted to ask would you use sealcoat a de- waxed shellac or straight zinsser shellac ? Then Briwax clear ?
current I have a radius to match Remo drumheadsthen a small flat area 1 to 2 mils then a 45 degree angle toward the inside of the drum
They are 8 mil Bubinga drum shells
Hope you get this !
Thank you
Arthur Rubio
Hi Arthur,

I didn't shellac the bearing edges. Just fine sand then Briwax clear & buff.

As for the bearing edge, are you referring to one of our standard edges, or the Tympanic edge? Standard edge sounds similar to yours. Typically 6mm radius on non reinforcement ring applications, 10mm radius on reinforcement ring applications. No flat to the peak, just a gentle transition radius to the counter angle.

Tympanic edge really needs to apply to either a thick shell, or shell with reinforcement rings. Anything less than circa 10 - 12mm thickness is a struggle, and of minimal benefit.

Hope this helps,

Andy.
 
@MattNes hasn't been on here since 2016... I wish we had a way to know what the result of his communication with Ludwig was. :confused:
 
Hi Arthur,

I didn't shellac the bearing edges. Just fine sand then Briwax clear & buff.

As for the bearing edge, are you referring to one of our standard edges, or the Tympanic edge? Standard edge sounds similar to yours. Typically 6mm radius on non reinforcement ring applications, 10mm radius on reinforcement ring applications. No flat to the peak, just a gentle transition radius to the counter angle.

Tympanic edge really needs to apply to either a thick shell, or shell with reinforcement rings. Anything less than circa 10 - 12mm thickness is a struggle, and of minimal benefit.

Hope this helps,

Andy.
Yes , I was referring to the Tympanic edge , still would not mind knowing the router bit size you used just to clarify. Please and thank you .
I used a 5/16 radius rounding bit and it fits a Remo head perfectly. I used a flat edge only cause I wanted to experiment with taking out high overtones or rings out of the drums . Sorry but I read a post I believe you wrote that you used shellac to seal out moisture and protect the edge and then used briwax to give the edge a slick finish. It doesn’t take much to confuse me lol so just be clear , no Shellac ? I am a big fan of what you have done. I don’t know if you ever had a complete catalog as I would love one . I would pay for postage . I am very interested in drum design for my own use. Thought I did make steel string acoustic guitars for a while. At one point thought I would get into instrument production business .
thank you so much for your time
Hope all is well,
Arthur Rubio
 
Yes , I was referring to the Tympanic edge , still would not mind knowing the router bit size you used just to clarify. Please and thank you .
I used a 5/16 radius rounding bit and it fits a Remo head perfectly. I used a flat edge only cause I wanted to experiment with taking out high overtones or rings out of the drums . Sorry but I read a post I believe you wrote that you used shellac to seal out moisture and protect the edge and then used briwax to give the edge a slick finish. It doesn’t take much to confuse me lol so just be clear , no Shellac ? I am a big fan of what you have done. I don’t know if you ever had a complete catalog as I would love one . I would pay for postage . I am very interested in drum design for my own use. Thought I did make steel string acoustic guitars for a while. At one point thought I would get into instrument production business .
thank you so much for your time
Hope all is well,
Arthur Rubio
Hi Arthur,

I only sealed some stave construction bearing edges with a spirited shellac when using very open end grain species such as zebrano, & numbers were limited. For the vast majority of species, no shellac, just Briwax & buff.

As for cutter radius, I used a selection, anywhere from 6mm (approx 1/4") to 12mm (approx 1/2"). I varied radius not according to drum head preform, but according to desired result depending on drum size / type & application. With the exception of very thick heads at ultra low tensions, I found the head preform radius to have only minimal influence on the "in application" result. In other words, outside of extremes, the head will form to the radius inder tension, plus I needed to allow for use with multiple brands.

We never produced a Guru catalog. Everything was contained on the website. A printed brochure never made economic sense, especially as our drums didn't run through distribution to retail.

I hope this helps,

Andy.
 
I own a set of Ludwig Legacy Classics, the Liverpool set. I purchased this set in the late summer of 2011. So they are 4 years and 2-3 months old. I have kept these drums in a climate controlled "finished off" basement. In the summer I have a de-humidifier running and in the winter I run a humidifier. Basically the humidity is always somewhere between 45-55% year round.
I dont play my drums every day. Maybe once or twice a week. I change the heads maybe every 6 months sometimes it might be a year.
Recently I decided I wanted to change my entire kit. So I got to inspecting them like I do whenever I change heads. To my shock, I have noticed quiet a few cracks and other crap starting to mess these drums up. Ill do a quick rundown...
The Kick drum has a spot on the reso side on the wood bearing edge hoop (the actual drum, not the wood ring that is separate) that is starting to crack and separate. This is actually pretty bad. But since its usually underneath a white drum head I didnt see it until I took the head off.
My 13" tom has 2 hairline cracks in the same wood bearing edge hoop on the reso side. It also has a spot where the wood is flattened about the size of a half dollar going up the side of the drum. WTF? And another hairline crack on the top batter side wood bearing edge.
The snare has 2 spots where the butt of the snare strainer sits and is screwed into the wood of the drum where the clear part of the pearl wrap is staring to bubble up and pull away from the pearl wrap. Almost like it has a clear skin on it. I know what youre gonna say, its not a clear film that I forgot to peal off when I got the drums. Its the wrap separating...

So I was looking inside the drums themselves when I noticed that the insides of the actual drums have what looks like a clearcoat lacquer on them protecting them. But the wooden bearing edges DO NOT. And it seems that the parts that do NOT have the lacquer protecting them are drying out. Would it be a bad idea to mask everything off carefully and apply some type of lacquer clear coat to stop the exposed wood from drying out any further?
I'm no expert on drum construction, but it seems insane to me to leave any wood surface unsealed from the atmosphere. I've seen internal doors that have swelled so badly in damp weather they've had to be scrapped and the warranty voided - just because the wood beneath the DOOR HANDLES hadn't been primed.
 
I'm no expert on drum construction, but it seems insane to me to leave any wood surface unsealed from the atmosphere. I've seen internal doors that have swelled so badly in damp weather they've had to be scrapped and the warranty voided - just because the wood beneath the DOOR HANDLES hadn't been primed.

I suspect that the bearing edge is covered by the drum head that is in place all the time. So, the bearing edge isn't really exposed to the atmosphere. As someone else said, you don't want to lacquer it because then the head won't slide along the bearing edge when tuning the drum. In addition, if the head is left in place long enough as most heads are, it will eventually adhere to the lacquer and be quite difficult and messy to remove. No, the bearing edge should not be sealed, lacquered etc. Frankly, drums are a musical instrument. As such, they should be kept in an environment where the humidity can be controlled. If you have them in a basement or live in a humid location, buy a dehumidfier. If you live in an excessively dry environment, buy a humidifier.
 
You can wax over the top of a hard finish if you are concerned about friction.

There’s a good chance that the sides of your shells are sealed or finished so why would anyone want to leave the edges unsealed. Wood is hygroscopic and left unsealed it will always be absorbing or releasing moisture. That means movement.

So you can seal the wood from moisture with penetrating oils or waxes or finishes that basically lay on top -shellac, lacquer or poly. They can all do the same job in terms of protecting the wood from moisture damage.
 
I suspect that the bearing edge is covered by the drum head that is in place all the time. So, the bearing edge isn't really exposed to the atmosphere. As someone else said, you don't want to lacquer it because then the head won't slide along the bearing edge when tuning the drum. In addition, if the head is left in place long enough as most heads are, it will eventually adhere to the lacquer and be quite difficult and messy to remove. No, the bearing edge should not be sealed, lacquered etc. Frankly, drums are a musical instrument. As such, they should be kept in an environment where the humidity can be controlled. If you have them in a basement or live in a humid location, buy a dehumidfier. If you live in an excessively dry environment, buy a humidifier.
More specifically, the apex of the bearing edge- and depending on the shape, the back cut- is covered by the head. Any sealant applied to the inside (and in the case of certain shapes, like a double 45 degree, also the outside) of a drum for humidity purposes should go all the way up the inside cut of the bearing edge to the point where the head makes contact. Devil's advocate- I wonder if sealing the inside of a shell but not the cut edge is more harmful to the integrity of the edge, due to that being the only spot- and the one where the inner plies are exposed- where the shell can take in moisture? :unsure: Re: treat drums like any other instrument for humidity changes- agreed 100%. ✔?
 
I'm no expert on drum construction, but it seems insane to me to leave any wood surface unsealed from the atmosphere. I've seen internal doors that have swelled so badly in damp weather they've had to be scrapped and the warranty voided - just because the wood beneath the DOOR HANDLES hadn't been primed.
Looking inside my guitars, it seems it's common practice. I've also seen drum interiors that appeared unfinished. IDK!
 
I've also seen drum interiors that appeared unfinished.
I've never owned a wooden drum that was finished inside at all. ('91 Tama Rockstar kit, '99-ish Legend maple snare, '03 Pacific CX kit w/matching maple snare, '04 Sonor Force 3003 w/matching maple/basswood snare, '05-ish 1st gen Tama Stagestar kit, '06 Maple Pro-M kit w/matching maple snare) Also, working for several different instrument retailers, I recall most brands' kits up to the top-level stuff were unfinished inside.
 
Hi Arthur,

I only sealed some stave construction bearing edges with a spirited shellac when using very open end grain species such as zebrano, & numbers were limited. For the vast majority of species, no shellac, just Briwax & buff.

As for cutter radius, I used a selection, anywhere from 6mm (approx 1/4") to 12mm (approx 1/2"). I varied radius not according to drum head preform, but according to desired result depending on drum size / type & application. With the exception of very thick heads at ultra low tensions, I found the head preform radius to have only minimal influence on the "in application" result. In other words, outside of extremes, the head will form to the radius inder tension, plus I needed to allow for use with multiple brands.

We never produced a Guru catalog. Everything was contained on the website. A printed brochure never made economic sense, especially as our drums didn't run through distribution to retail.

I hope this helps,

Andy.
I've never owned a wooden drum that was finished inside at all. ('91 Tama Rockstar kit, '99-ish Legend maple snare, '03 Pacific CX kit w/matching maple snare, '04 Sonor Force 3003 w/matching maple/basswood snare, '05-ish 1st gen Tama Stagestar kit, '06 Maple Pro-M kit w/matching maple snare) Also, working for several different instrument retailers, I recall most brands' kits up to the top-level stuff were unfinished inside.
so the inside was just raw wood without lacquer or a poly finish ? Bearing Edges left bare as well?
trying to remember my old Slingerland Drum Kit
 
so the inside was just raw wood without lacquer or a poly finish ? Bearing Edges left bare as well?
Yep. They were all sanded nicely, to varying degrees (nicer on the higher lines, of course), but yeah, no interior finish. DW, Pearl, Tama, Taye, Mapex, Gretsch ("silver sealer" paint on the inside of Renown & above, but no lacquer), and more.
 
Hi Arthur,

I only sealed some stave construction bearing edges with a spirited shellac when using very open end grain species such as zebrano, & numbers were limited. For the vast majority of species, no shellac, just Briwax & buff.

As for cutter radius, I used a selection, anywhere from 6mm (approx 1/4") to 12mm (approx 1/2"). I varied radius not according to drum head preform, but according to desired result depending on drum size / type & application. With the exception of very thick heads at ultra low tensions, I found the head preform radius to have only minimal influence on the "in application" result. In other words, outside of extremes, the head will form to the radius inder tension, plus I needed to allow for use with multiple brands.

We never produced a Guru catalog. Everything was contained on the website. A printed brochure never made economic sense, especially as our drums didn't run through distribution to retail.

I hope this helps,

Andy.
Andy:
Yes very helpful ,
I do have one question does the Briwax deteriorate after a year? Didn’t make sense how can it creep out of the wood , dull yes .
Don’t know if you did any testing or just had instructions for care & maintenance. Which would make sense. I emailed Briwax and have been playing phone tag with Jody .
I know most people replace their heads by this point. I tend to go a bit longer if I can due to a large set ? I am using 10 plié Ebony Emperor
Also I tried to look up your catalog information but the website search resulted in some kind of corrupt file . I’ll try a different path.
Thank you very much Andy,
Really appreciate all your time

Arthur
 
Andy:
Yes very helpful ,
I do have one question does the Briwax deteriorate after a year? Didn’t make sense how can it creep out of the wood , dull yes .
Don’t know if you did any testing or just had instructions for care & maintenance. Which would make sense. I emailed Briwax and have been playing phone tag with Jody .
I know most people replace their heads by this point. I tend to go a bit longer if I can due to a large set ? I am using 10 plié Ebony Emperor
Also I tried to look up your catalog information but the website search resulted in some kind of corrupt file . I’ll try a different path.
Thank you very much Andy,
Really appreciate all your time

Arthur
I took the website down a while after I was forced to close Guru. Too many emails requesting instruments, despite trading status being widely publicised and clearly highlighted on the home page. I had to take down social media stuff too because of pestering, even extending to my family members being contacted to "influence" me - not acceptable.
 
I took the website down a while after I was forced to close Guru. Too many emails requesting instruments, despite trading status being widely publicised and clearly highlighted on the home page. I had to take down social media stuff too because of pestering, even extending to my family members being contacted to "influence" me - not acceptable.

I understand the enthusiasm, but wow, NOT cool at all!
 
so the inside was just raw wood without lacquer or a poly finish ? Bearing Edges left bare as well?
trying to remember my old Slingerland Drum Kit
Hello, first post. I stumbled onto this thread looking for bearing edge details (profile, finishing, etc), as I've nearly completed my first set of double kick maple stave drums for my son. I've made a lot of custom furniture, a couple electric guitars, and three yet-to-complete violins (long story). My main concern about the bearing edges has been, as discussed here, maintaining the head's ability to tune and move freely on a finished bearing. In my experience, the stability of the wood is best served by sealing all surfaces. This adds cost to manufacturing, so that's probably why you see insides and edges that are unsealed. Of course, plywood shells are much less sensitive to environmental changes than stave shells, so that could be a factor as well. I believe stave shells are a different animal. If you've ever left a slab of wood dry out in the open air, you've seen cracks form at the cut edge while the bark protects the rest. This is the same with the drum except, of course, the drums are not subject to such extremes. The sensitivity is the same. Proper construction is to use suitably dry wood (8-ish% moisture content or preferably matched to the environment in which they will live) and seal all surface to minimize any changes it might see. Stave shells should also have a vent to make sure the moisture in the interior of the drum can circulate. I would worry about sealing that volume shut, but that's a hunch. So my concern isn't what's best for the wood. I'm pretty confident I know what that is. But that isn't necessarily consistent with what's best for the sound. I'm planning to treat the edge with the same finish as the sides - thin 1 lb cut shellac to seal/prevent blotching, three coats of Danish oil, two coats for General Finish gel topcoat. For the bearing, I will add some paste wax to enable free movement of the head. I believe this is consistent with the prevailing opinions here, correct?
Thanks,
Mike
 
just rub a candle over the edges and don’t seal them. It’s a problem with laminated woods expansion of mater versus wood absorption And the adhesive materials. Although you would have thought Ludwig would know that by now.
 
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