Advice with a Craviotto bass drum cymbal mount

single-ply

Senior Member
I have two sets, One is a vintage Ludwig Super Classic (22-16-13) I picked up last year and the other is a Craviotto (20-14-12) I've had for a while. The Ludwig has the typical bass drum cymbal mount. I didn't think I would, but I've grown to really like it.

I have a questionable back and am always looking to cut down on hardware to reduce weight.

Although I'd like to reduce the need for a heavy cymbal stand to hold the tom, with Andy's advice, I decided NOT to drill the Craviotto bass drum for a tom mount. He said I'd kill the resale value of the set. I have to agree with that point, as that's a pretty big modification. I am interested, though, in putting a cymbal mount on it. It's the same as the ones installed on their floor toms.

Do you think I'd be killing resale value by doing this? Bad idea? All input is appreciated.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
Bad idea in terms of resale value. Very bad idea indeed. Ludwig may offer a system to replace a lug for a mount but I have no idea if it's compatible with the lugs on your Crav. If the hole spacing is different, it won't work.
 

MusiQmaN

Platinum Member
As Bishop Bullwinkle says it... Hell naw, hell to the naw naw...

It devaluates the value big time and isn't worth the extra ''hassle'' bringing an extra stand (or multi clamp cymbal mount to the existing cymbal stand)
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
As to the issue of extra weight on the bass drum, especially a ride cymbal, I'd advise caution. As to resale value, if it's using components already used in other Craviotto applications, then maybe. I'd still avoid it though. Ultimately, fire an email to Johnny, or maybe Steve Maxwell. Get their opinion, it's the one that really matters.
 

dwsabianguy

Senior Member
If you do end up going with one of the Ludwig Atlas mounts, it should fit since one of the mounting screws has a placement track that'll adjust for most common lug hole spacings. You can always take the Atlas mount off and replace the original Craviotto tube lug when the time comes.

But, I wouldn't do that either. A cymbal on one of those mounts ends up putting a lot of stress on the shell and I don't think I'd want that on a Craviotto drum.
 

zenghost

Senior Member
I'll cast a dissenting opinion, though I think I fully understand what others are saying and why they say it. What they say does have merit within the context of their primary consideration(s). I don't use a BD-mounted cymbal holder, but I do run a bass drum mounted tom on my kits (including a DW Jazz kit and a Sonor SQ2) pretty much exclusively. I accept whatever price I may pay sonically for the sake of simplicity and convenience.

As far as resale value, it is not much of a consideration for me - I get what I want, for my purposes and satisfaction. Otherwise, I'd probably be more conservative with configuration and/or finishes etc.

If you are dealing with a kit for which resale value is a primary consideration, you obviously can't discount the matter entirely and some folks find the concept of drilling a bass drum shell as heretical - even more so with a "high-end" drum.

If you are going for absolute sonic purity or top-dollar resale value, do not drill. If you are like me, and place more value on convenience for a kit you intend to keep - have the work done professionally. There is no free-lunch in these matters, so make a decision based on where you place the most value.

Craviotto mounts cymbal and tom holders at the factory if requested. I have a Crav kit on order and have asked them to install a bracket to accommodate a 1" tom-holder post (again, heresy to most). They had no quibbles in doing so, and in my experience they will tell you if they think you are spec'ing something that is questionable.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Craviotto mounts cymbal and tom holders at the factory if requested. I have a Crav kit on order and have asked them to install a bracket to accommodate a 1" tom-holder post (again, heresy to most). They had no quibbles in doing so, and in my experience they will tell you if they think you are spec'ing something that is questionable.
That's the most relevant information right there. Point loadings on a large diameter steam bent shell should be viewed with caution, but if the calculations have been done, & the historical experience is good, then fine. It's not a decision I'd like to take without the evidence to back it up, hence my suggestion to seek further advice.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
The Dunnet clamp works well for floor tom to bass drum conversion using the leg mount for conversion for the tom mount or cymbal mount, but I'm not sure how well it will work on a standard bass drum since it has no leg clamp on it.

As for drilling I just drilled my Renown bass drum for a double tom holder and it worked out great. HOWEVER, it is ply construction and not solid ply or steambent. I also have no intent of selling mine ever but I spent more time measuring and thinking and measuring again before drilling and I have a lot of experience. If you aren't sure, DO NOT DRILL. It is irreversible.
 

single-ply

Senior Member
Thanks for all the input guys.

I've often wished that the Dunnett rail was much longer and maybe a little beefier so that it could attach to a Ludwig Atlas lug and curve all the way over the top of the bass drum. As was pointed out, right now it requires a center mounted floor tom mount as it was designed for floor tom conversions.

I agree with whoever was leery of using an atlas lug to hold a cymbal. I tried the arch thing on the bass drum. I hated how far the lugs stuck out and the arch was HEAVY. It alone weighs as much as a cymbal stand. I was actually worried about cracking the shell between the lug attachment points. And for whatever reason, the atlas mount on my 12" tom killed it. No resonance whatsoever. Sold the whole system and went back to the Gauger rims. Those are ugly, but they work.

I did talk to Nathaniel Mela at Craviotto a while back. Very good guy. They will install tom and cymbal mounts, but not certain kinds. The DW slide mount or the Sonor one are WAY too heavy. His opinion was that on a big drum, the post mount or a cymbal mount don't really affect the sound. I asked about putting a mount (floor tom mount) one the small tom. I have seen that done. He said it's hit or miss. On some toms it doesn't change the tone a bit. On others, it kills it. No way to know until it's done. He doesn't recommend doing that.

If I remember correctly, his main concern with mounts is leaving the drums set up for extended periods of time. That might cause deflection. I saw a Craviotto set on Ebay a few months ago. Supposedly a studio set. It had a Yamaha mount with two toms. I strongly suspect it had deflection if it has remained set up for studio work.

As far as a cymbal mount, I'm not worried about deflection. I don't keep it set up all the time. As long as I use a Craviotto mount, I don't think there is anything horribly wrong with installing it. I just can't make up my mind.

I'll be playing another 20+ years. It's important to me to keep the drums value, but in my mind, that is more about respecting and taking proper care of the instruments. My first drum was a Supra, early seventies, that my parents bought me. It's been on the road and played extensively for 40 years. It still looks like I bought it yesterday. I believe that kind of care influences future value more than an installed cymbal mount might reduce.

I just need to reduce mainly hardware bag weight due to my back and am looking for ways to do this. The bass mount seems like one way.

Does anyone have any experience with the Canopus aluminum stands? Pretty light? Any good?

Sorry for the rambling note.

Thanks to all
 

drum4fun27302

Gold Member
Thanks for all the input guys.

I've often wished that the Dunnett rail was much longer and maybe a little beefier so that it could attach to a Ludwig Atlas lug and curve all the way over the top of the bass drum. As was pointed out, right now it requires a center mounted floor tom mount as it was designed for floor tom conversions.

I agree with whoever was leery of using an atlas lug to hold a cymbal. I tried the arch thing on the bass drum. I hated how far the lugs stuck out and the arch was HEAVY. It alone weighs as much as a cymbal stand. I was actually worried about cracking the shell between the lug attachment points. And for whatever reason, the atlas mount on my 12" tom killed it. No resonance whatsoever. Sold the whole system and went back to the Gauger rims. Those are ugly, but they work.


I did talk to Nathaniel Mela at Craviotto a while back. Very good guy. They will install tom and cymbal mounts, but not certain kinds. The DW slide mount or the Sonor one are WAY too heavy. His opinion was that on a big drum, the post mount or a cymbal mount don't really affect the sound. I asked about putting a mount (floor tom mount) one the small tom. I have seen that done. He said it's hit or miss. On some toms it doesn't change the tone a bit. On others, it kills it. No way to know until it's done. He doesn't recommend doing that.

If I remember correctly, his main concern with mounts is leaving the drums set up for extended periods of time. That might cause deflection. I saw a Craviotto set on Ebay a few months ago. Supposedly a studio set. It had a Yamaha mount with two toms. I strongly suspect it had deflection if it has remained set up for studio work.

As far as a cymbal mount, I'm not worried about deflection. I don't keep it set up all the time. As long as I use a Craviotto mount, I don't think there is anything horribly wrong with installing it. I just can't make up my mind.

I'll be playing another 20+ years. It's important to me to keep the drums value, but in my mind, that is more about respecting and taking proper care of the instruments. My first drum was a Supra, early seventies, that my parents bought me. It's been on the road and played extensively for 40 years. It still looks like I bought it yesterday. I believe that kind of care influences future value more than an installed cymbal mount might reduce.

I just need to reduce mainly hardware bag weight due to my back and am looking for ways to do this. The bass mount seems like one way.

Does anyone have any experience with the Canopus aluminum stands? Pretty light? Any good?

Sorry for the rambling note.

Thanks to all



You must have not understood our previous post. The dw hook clamps mounts to the bass drum hoop. Well it sandwiches the bd hoop and the collar of the bd head. You don't mRk anything and don't drill holes in the wood of the drum
 

single-ply

Senior Member
No, I understood your post about the hoop clamps. Just not convinced they wouldn't damage the bass rims, especially Craviotto's. That is one area that I think Crav's are lacking. The hoops, IMO, don't have enough plys and aren't stiff enough. Pretty bendable.

It might be ok for a tom because with the dunnett adapter, it puts a point load on the shell, distributing the weight.

A ride cymbal solely attached to the hoop would, I believe, put a lot of upward torque on the hoop since the weight of the cymbal is not over the hoop. On a Yamaha hoop, which is much thicker than a Craviotto hoop, that will probably work just fine.

Maybe it's a non-issue. If I can find a decent deal on a Dunnett mount, I might try it for the tom. Anything to get rid of the heavy cymbal stand I have it cantilevered off of!

By the way, I hate Lp claws, or any clamp or miking system that tightens onto drum rims. They dramatically change the sound of the toms and snare. Just my opinion.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
I think finding anything that will successfully distribute the weight of the cymbal over multiple points on the bass drum will be prohibitively heavy, not only impacting the sound of the drum but will increase the weight of an awkward to carry drum making for more back issues. Honestly, a light weight cymbal stand would be a far easier thing to carry in to the gig.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I think finding anything that will successfully distribute the weight of the cymbal over multiple points on the bass drum will be prohibitively heavy, not only impacting the sound of the drum but will increase the weight of an awkward to carry drum making for more back issues. Honestly, a light weight cymbal stand would be a far easier thing to carry in to the gig.
This is the sensible option IMHO.
 

pbm2112

Senior Member
This is the sensible option IMHO.
+ 1

I looked into mounting all kinds of stuff off my bass drum to try and reduce weight to save my neck. But it just leads to a heavier bass drum. I have a heavy 22" ride on a feather-weight DW flat based boom and it doesn't move an inch no matter how I play it. Hardware these days is so much heavier than it needs to be.
 

Blisco

Senior Member
This actually is a great solution. Whether I'd do it to a super high-end kit...

I started with 2 Atlas thinking that would distribute the force and that works well except the cymbal arm does not pop off (like DW dogbones) so I had to make a change.


I decided to try a lighter 20" ride with one mount. After 2+ years and 150+ gigs, it still does a fantastic job. The idea that Atlas put stress on the shell is unfounded, in my opinion.


But as far as the OP goes, just get stands unless this is a gig kit and you don't mind modifying it. Resale value means nothing if you're going to make 5 times the cost of it playing gigs. Who cares at that point? Do what you want. Your gear owes you nothing at that point.
 
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