Advice NEEDED from experienced gigging drummers

M

mikei

Gold Member
Hello My Friends,

Been away for a while due to a hectic schedule.

My band is starting to gig regularly. Have played twice the last month at different bars with different experiences. We have 2 more bar gigs and a club gig lined up during the next 2 months.

Here seems to be MY problem. I play way to hard. I never thought that this would be a problem. During practice, we just always play LOUD! I am a very big guy at 6' 4" and 250 lbs. I uses every inch and ounce to hit the skins. I LOVE playing like this and so do my band mates. And, I have gotten complements on my playing because of my passions and energy during shows.

But this last Sat, we played a new bar. They knew we played Rock and I told them we were LOUD. They said it wasn't a problem. However, I found out real quick that it was.

We were told to turn down numerous times, and we did. After the second set of four, the owner walked up to me and told me if had to ask us again, he was going to pull the plugs out of the amps and throw our asses out!

The crowd liked it loud and actually got pissed at the owner because of it. But that is another story.

The bottom line is HOW do I learn to play softer without losing my passion??? When we did the 3rd and 4th set, I was so bored just tapping the kit. I really had to think about playing softly and it kind of ruined my mood and did effect my playing.

I know at the club I will be able to pound away, but I have to learn to control myself in certain situations.

I read that Bonham had troubles in the 60s in England and that he was actually banned from playing certain places. I am certainly not comparing myself to him in any way, but I thought playing too loud was a thing of the past. I was wrong.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.
 
i too used to play way too loud, which was definitely an issue when i was taking jazz studies at school and playing in workshops with acoustic pianos n' such.

i found that learning to control dynamics came from learning to control other aspects of my playing. as i practiced with Stick Control ( metrenome at 40bpm, no faster) and started getting those exercises under my fingers i could better control the sticks and didn't have to hit as hard to get the sound that i wanted. getting a snare to pop, or getting a strong backbeat isn't about how hard you hit the drums, but how confidently you hit the drum in regards to pocket and technique.

the more i practiced rudiments, Stick Control exercises, and with other books like The New Breed and Syncopated Rolls for the Modern Drummer, the better i got an controlling dynamics and playing with feeling. no lack of energy or passion, just better control over it.

this helped me play better, not just in my jazz workshops, but with my rock band (our singer could hear himself, and everyone else could too!), and with my jungle/drum n' bass band (playing fast tempos for extended lengths of time got a lot easier!). and i haven't broken a stick in about 6 years.
 
I'm sure you have the ability to play quieter, all that would take is a little practice. It sounds like you're afraid that this might not be that fun. If you're only in it to have fun, and your band feels the same way, then I'd say you and your band should stick to playing the venues that don't limit your volume.

If your in the band for fun AND cause it's a job, i.e. you need the money, that's a different story. You're probably going to have to suck it up on certain gigs, play quieter, get the check, and go home. I'm in a working band, too, some gigs are great, some feel like a job.

Personally, I enjoy the gigs where we get to play quieter. I used to play in pit orchestras for musicals, and it's a challenge to make the music intense at a soft volume. Look at it like this, if you have to play quieter for a night, make it a game and go for perfection. Every beat should be rock solid, every fill should have clarity, and you should be able to hear what's going on in the band, all at a soft volume. If you can do that, your accuracy and tone will have improved greatly, and you'll be an even better drummer next time you play at full volume.

I personally had to fire a sub, because he got the band barred from great venue for playing too loud. He was a good drummer, but just didn't want to play softer, so now he's not subbing with our band anymore.
 
To play softer you HAVE to practice softer too. Also you have to work so that your posture works accordingly. Do you play with your heel up? Try playing heel down then. Do you play your backbeat with rim shots, try hitting dead center. Also tell your bandmates to TURN IT DOWN! I'm sure that will also help. Best of luck.
 
Yeah that's a tough one...we've all been there and regardless of what the crowd thinks, the owner of the bar / club calls the shots. I've played many places where the towns have noise ordinances, (yes even in clubs), and owners are scared of citations. I've seen owners come around when the crowd reaction influenced the bottom line!

You'll have to suck it up and deal with it but by all means stay professional, a gig is a gig.
Bar owners talk to each other.
 
Here's a little tip for you. Prior to playing one of our members will approach the owner or manager and tell them "we want this to go well for everyone so if we're sounding too loud, too soft, or anything else we can do to make the night a success just let us know". Believe me these guys/gals appreciate it and you immediately become their friend rather than an opponent. Always treat the management with respect even if you need to disagree on something and try to make it work. Remember you're only working there for a few hours. They are in the place 10-12 hours or more every day and challenging them on their own turf is a sure way to blow any future chances of working with them again. As one of the other posters mentioned, word does get passed between bars and if your band becomes known as hard to deal with it's going to hurt you.
 
i think being told to turn it down is a pretty common situation, especially in small venues where you're supposed to be providing background music. when i have to play quieter than i can comfortably play with sticks, i'll use those "rod" sticks, like hot rods or cool rods. if i really have to be quiet i'll use brushes. they change the way the drums and cymbals sound, and i know it's kind of like cheating, but they make it a lot easier to keep the volume down.
 
hungrypo said:
and started getting those exercises under my fingers i could better control the sticks and didn't have to hit as hard to get the sound that i wanted. getting a snare to pop, or getting a strong backbeat isn't about how hard you hit the drums, but how confidently you hit the drum in regards to pocket and technique.

the more i practiced rudiments, Stick Control exercises, and with other books like The New Breed and Syncopated Rolls for the Modern Drummer, the better i got an controlling dynamics and playing with feeling. no lack of energy or passion, just better control over it.

this helped me play better, not just in my jazz workshops, but with my rock band (our singer could hear himself, and everyone else could too!), and with my jungle/drum n' bass band (playing fast tempos for extended lengths of time got a lot easier!). and i haven't broken a stick in about 6 years.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is good.

See, playing with energy isn't about playing LOUD, it's all about the intensity and pocket of your playing. If you want energy, just really drive the band (play a fair bit in front of the beat). If you want to work on playing softer, PRACTICE softer. Seriously, whenever you touch your drums in the woodshed, play them softly. Play everything with low strokes and stay really relaxed. Practice Stick Control and Rudiments this way and you will see and improvement in your playing, both loud and soft. It's all control at the end of the day. Don't tense up when trying to play soft, little taps! Learn how to draw a good sound from low stick heights. I hope I've made myself clear and good luck to you!

Lloyd.
 
Welcome to the current scene! Across the country, there is a lot of movement by local law enforcement agencies to control sound at bars. People are being told to turn down everywhere. I have gotten to the point where I play totally differently with my band than I used to. Heck, I love the sound of rim shots, I used to use them for most of my backbeats. Now, I don't do that at all.

If you really love playing music, and really love playing gigs, you should be able to play quieter with the same amount of passion. After all, as musicians we need to play to the music...and if the amps need to turn down, then you have to match them. Your passion needs to come from playing to the music, not from beating the heck out of the drums (even though that is a LOT of fun, too).

One important part here is to practice as you're going to play. I can't stress this enough. If you need to play quieter, you need to practice that way as well. Learning how to play quietly is just like learning any other technique. It takes time, but once you learn how to do it, you can incorporate it into your regular playing, and still have the same fun and passion.

Trust me, I understand your pain. When I joined my current band, I was hitting heavier than I ever had, and loving every second of it. Now, I've gotten a lot quieter. WIth that said, I still have as much fun, play with passion, and have fun. I also get a lot of compliments on the passion with which I play, still to this day. Passion comes out in a lot of ways, not just the power with which you hit. Now, I think it's ridiculous how hard I used to play. It was so unnecessary.

One final thought...it's been said before, but I can't stress it enough. Bar owners all talk to each other, and if you play too loud, you will find gigs dry up. On the other hand, if you adapt, play quieter, and are easy to work with, you will get a reputation that can help you far more than just playing well, or bringing in a crowd, will. We constantly get re-booked at venues where we don't have a huge crowd the first or second time, because the places love working with us, and because of that are willing to give us a few chances...and I know plenty of other bands where that is just not the case.
 
I've just got to peek my head in and say hey. How's it going? Welcome back, mikei!

Try to practice with the same intensity at a quieter level. Intensity doesn't come from the arms, but from your feel. Sure, it's fun as all get out to bash and rock out on your kit, but if you can capture that same care-free no-holds-barred attitude at a quieter dynamic, then you'll be much better off as a drummer. You won't be using volume as a crutch for your passion...
 
I use hotrods in that situation, they are much quieter and allow me to still actually play.
 
If you're playing rock music at venues where the show is the main event (ie, not background music, not dinner clubs, etc) and they're telling you its too loud, they are either crazy, or it is WAY too loud.

Idk, personally, I hit extremely hard and have never been scolded for being too loud. Are you sure its not just the guitars that are too loud? In smaller venues your guitarists/bassist should probably have their amps a bit lower than at practice so that the sound guy can do his job. Do you guys have the amps up to 11 or something?
 
I imagine a situation where you have two kids in the backseat of a car on a road trip with their parents. One keeps annoying the other, so the other is getting really mad, and saying: "I going to kill you, you little, blah, blah, blah." But not loudly, becasue then the parents would hear. The fact that he's whispering doesn't mean he doesn't mean what he says however. Thats my approach to soft playing.
 
This post helps a lot.

Just last night I got bashed for playing too loud.

My situation: I play in a church praise band with 3 electric guitars, an electric piano/organ, two singers, and me-the drummer. The room accustics downright suck. We're talking either brick or plaster-covered walls. I am backed up against a brick wall on the back of the stage and dead center. As you can imagine, the volume from on stage to the back of the auditorium changes dramatically. If it sounds ok on stage, it sounds REALLY loud in the back. And people have complained about how loud it is. And then I get creamed for playing too loud.

Finally I got the piano player / guitar player to stand in the back of the room and listen while I played my snare and toms soft-to-moderate volume. He then admitted there is a huge difference and "obviously it's not all you". Well....duh!!

But admitting I do play some things too loud, I am now going to have to practice playing softer.

Any other tips to playing softer?

I've been told to relax my grip on the sticks. I'm even going to experiement with the hot rods, or whatever they are called. I now use brushes when required, but I need to get to where I play good either loud or soft.

Any other tips? Books or DVDs?

Thanks!
 
Practice playing at lower volumes while maintaining your intensity. It's not that hard, just make the decision and do it.

Learning to play dynamically is very, very important. If you are known as a bit of a basher, then you are no doubt failing to form a nice groove pocket that singers and soloists feel comfortable doing their thing in. If you break a lot of sticks, heads and cymbals, it's time to look at the problem.

Listen to some of your favorite music and think "would this sound better if the drummer hit like I do". The answer is rarely yes, it would be better if he smashed the drums. Anticipating and nailing the dynamic levels is a major part of being a musician. Beating the hell out of your drums is a major part of being 12 years old. :)
 
Thank you very much for the responses.

I appreciate all of them.

I am going to practice HARD to bring my levels down.

It is good to hear others have had to deal with this too. I though perhaps I was just a complete idiot! LOL

Talk to you guys soon!
 
I think that you've been given some sound advice. You should be able to play at different volume levels and have it feel good.

That said, I played a few gigs like that back in the day. We did what we did, they didn't ask us back, and we would not have gone back for any amount of money.

Sometimes it's just not a good match.
 
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