Actually APPLYING Rudiments with Metronome.

\o/

Senior Member
Hi. I'm stuck as how to apply the rudiments to the click. I play with an accentless metronome to help me count time properly. With say, the metronome set at 80 bpm, if i wanted to play a five note roll for example, would i play 5 notes for every click, playing 20 notes per bar (in 4/4) or would i play 5 notes over the course of the 4 clicks? Or does it not matter as long as you're playing the notes consistently in groups of 5?

Obviously as you bump the metronome up it's kinda impossible to play things like the 9 strokes per click, they have to be played over the bar. I'm just wondering at this slow pace how to count it.

So would i count a 5 note as 1e+a5 2e+a5 etc?

This post seems stupid but i hope someone knows what i mean!

I guess i'm confused between counting whole bars with the metronome or just using the space between the clicks for playing the entire rudiment.

Also, can anyone think of anything to add to my practice pad regime (bear in mind i'm only a beginner so i've left certain rudiments etc out until i get comfortable with the ones i'm working on) I tried to get most of the essentials in there like coordination, accenting, independence and note values:


Warm Up

L/R Hand Individually -- As 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 notes and triplets.

L/R -- As 1/4, 1/8, 1/16's and triplets - Alternate starting hand.

Both hands together, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and triplets.

Mix and match above for X amount of bars. 10 MIN

Rudiments - Metronome at 80

#1 Single Stroke Roll - Alternate starting hand.
#2 Single Stroke Four
#3 Single Stroke Seven
#5 Triple Stroke Roll
#6 Double Stroke Open
#7 Five Stroke Roll
#8 Six Stroke Roll
Quad Stroke Roll. 10 MINS EACH (1hr 20 MINS)

Hand Independence

Whole notes, 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes, 1/16 notes. Played with each hand,
with other hand playing different value. Eg; left hand plays 1/4's,
right hand plays 1/8ths. 10 MINS

Controlling Accents

Whole, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, triplets - Playing bars of each with accents in random places.

Then playing bars of MIXED note values, with random accents. 10 MINS
 
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Fox622003

Gold Member
A 5 stroke roll is not really a "group of 5" it's 5 notes for every quarter (in it's typical manifestation), yes, but four of them are 32nds and one is an eighth. Similar with a 9, but here it's eight 32nds and a quarter. Careful when you move to the sevens and thirteens, as those are triplet (sextuplet) based.


Fox.
 

flamlick

Junior Member
I usually count them as 12345. You can also relate them to common 5 syllable words like University or homosexual (it works). As far as where they fall in relation to the quarter note from the metronome is dependent on if you are trying to play 1/4 1/8 or 1/16 quintuplets (5 lets). With the 1/16 note variation, the first note of every group of 5 is on the "click" and will give you 20 notes per measure. This is where I would start because it's alot easier to feel the "pulse" of the quarter note in my opinion. I would also practice with different stroking patterns. I'll assume you're using the straight sticking Rlrlr Lrlrl Rlrlr Lrlrl at the moment. Try this one especially at faster speeds Rllrr Lrrll Rllrr Lrrll (slurred 5's). Another way to get the feel for this is to play a bar of 1/8 note triplets followed by a bar of 1/16 quintuplets.
Once you get the 1/16 note pattern under your belt with the metronome using straight sticking, play it with your right hand on the drum left hand on your leg. Your right hand will be playing 1/8 note quintuplets ( 10 notes per bar). In which case the "click" on the metronome will fall on the 1st and immediately after the 3rd note of each group of 5. From the 1/8 note the 1/4 note comes the same way. Right hand on drum left on leg.

As far as your accent pattern exercise, don't just play random accents. Make sure you know where the accents are falling in relation to the beat. Try playing four bars of sixteenth notes. Start with accent on 1, next bar accent on E, next bar accent on &, and the last bar on A. Then replace the accents with bass drum notes. Works the same with the triplets start on the downbeat and move the accents forward from bar to bar. If that gets old play it backwards! Hope this helps.
 

\o/

Senior Member
I usually count them as 12345. You can also relate them to common 5 syllable words like University or homosexual (it works). As far as where they fall in relation to the quarter note from the metronome is dependent on if you are trying to play 1/4 1/8 or 1/16 quintuplets (5 lets). With the 1/16 note variation, the first note of every group of 5 is on the "click" and will give you 20 notes per measure. This is where I would start because it's alot easier to feel the "pulse" of the quarter note in my opinion. I would also practice with different stroking patterns. I'll assume you're using the straight sticking Rlrlr Lrlrl Rlrlr Lrlrl at the moment. Try this one especially at faster speeds Rllrr Lrrll Rllrr Lrrll (slurred 5's). Another way to get the feel for this is to play a bar of 1/8 note triplets followed by a bar of 1/16 quintuplets.
Once you get the 1/16 note pattern under your belt with the metronome using straight sticking, play it with your right hand on the drum left hand on your leg. Your right hand will be playing 1/8 note quintuplets ( 10 notes per bar). In which case the "click" on the metronome will fall on the 1st and immediately after the 3rd note of each group of 5. From the 1/8 note the 1/4 note comes the same way. Right hand on drum left on leg.

As far as your accent pattern exercise, don't just play random accents. Make sure you know where the accents are falling in relation to the beat. Try playing four bars of sixteenth notes. Start with accent on 1, next bar accent on E, next bar accent on &, and the last bar on A. Then replace the accents with bass drum notes. Works the same with the triplets start on the downbeat and move the accents forward from bar to bar. If that gets old play it backwards! Hope this helps.
Cheers guys, these really helped and i've grasped it now. In relation to the accent thing, i should have specified that the list was from my actual typed out routine, and that 'random' refers to a bunch of charts i've made myself with accents in different specific places, i just said random for the sake of the list!

Would you recommend anything else to add to my pad regime?

Thanks again, this forum is awesome.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
I'm stuck as how to apply the rudiments to the click. I play with an accentless metronome to help me count time properly. With say, the metronome set at 80 bpm, if i wanted to play a five note roll for example, would i play 5 notes for every click, playing 20 notes per bar (in 4/4) or would i play 5 notes over the course of the 4 clicks?
There's no rudiment with the name "five note roll"- so I'm assuming you're talking about a five stroke roll. It's not just five notes- it's two doubles- or two multiple-bounce strokes- and a release note. Always when you see it written it will have a rhythmic value assigned to it, and that's what tells you where it falls relative to the click. So either you're reading it from a book, but don't know how to read and apply rhythms to a fixed pulse, or you are trying to just pull it out of the air without first assigning a rhythmic value to it. Either way that answer probably doesn't help you at all, and you need to get with a teacher and have him explain rhythm to you.
 

Jack Boyd

Senior Member
There's no rudiment with the name "five note roll"- so I'm assuming you're talking about a five stroke roll. It's not just five notes- it's two doubles- or two multiple-bounce strokes- and a release note.
Right. The way I was taught to count during this exercise is:

1-e-&-a-2-e-&-a-3-e-&-a-4-e-&-a
rr-ll-R----ll-rr-L----rr-ll R----ll-rr-L--
 

Boomka

Platinum Member
A 5 stroke roll is not really a "group of 5" it's 5 notes for every quarter (in it's typical manifestation), yes, but four of them are 32nds and one is an eighth. Similar with a 9, but here it's eight 32nds and a quarter. Careful when you move to the sevens and thirteens, as those are triplet (sextuplet) based.


Fox.
Sorry, I can't leave this... This is most certainly not the case. Seven-Stroke Rolls and 13-Stroke Rolls may be played in a triple meter, but they don't have to be. One of the standard ways to see a 7-Stroke-Roll written is as a group of four 16th notes with the first played as a tap/accent and the following three notes being doubled (actually 32nd notes). Similarly, 7s are sometimes written as dotted-eighths with 3 slashes denoting a 32nd-note roll. A 13-stroke Roll is also often written as a dotted-quarter tied to a final tap (which could be of any value) with three slashes denoting playing the note as a double stroke (32nd note) roll. I.e. a 13-Stroke Roll is often 6 16th notes + a final note (or 12 32nds plus one note of any value) There are no triplets or sextuplets involved in playing either of these.

Granted, those rolls CAN be played in triple meter (7s often are), but that is the same for any roll of any length. 5-Stroke-Rolls can also be played in a triple meter, for example. In the first instance if we double all three notes of a triplet, we're playing a 7-stroke Roll in triple meter. In the second, if we double the first two notes of a triplet and tap the final one, we're playing a 5-stroke Roll in triple meter.

In short, the number of strokes in the roll does not imply meter.
 
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Fox622003

Gold Member
Sorry, I can't leave this... This is most certainly not the case. Seven-Stroke Rolls and 13-Stroke Rolls may be played in a triple meter, but they don't have to be. One of the standard ways to see a 7-Stroke-Roll written is as a group of four 16th notes with the first played as a tap/accent and the following three notes being doubled (actually 32nd notes). Similarly, 7s are sometimes written as dotted-eighths with 3 slashes denoting a 32nd-note roll. A 13-stroke Roll is also often written as a dotted-quarter tied to a final tap (which could be of any value) with three slashes denoting playing the note as a double stroke (32nd note) roll. I.e. a 13-Stroke Roll is often 6 16th notes + a final note (or 12 32nds plus one note of any value) There are no triplets or sextuplets involved in playing either of these.

Granted, those rolls CAN be played in triple meter (7s often are), but that is the same for any roll of any length. 5-Stroke-Rolls can also be played in a triple meter, for example. In the first instance if we double all three notes of a triplet, we're playing a 7-stroke Roll in triple meter. In the second, if we double the first two notes of a triplet and tap the final one, we're playing a 5-stroke Roll in triple meter.

In short, the number of strokes in the roll does not imply meter.
Of course, BUT 7s and 13s are triplet based on Wilcoxon's. Now looking at the PASIC rudiment page, they are not triplet based there :-/ So I guess the typical, or standard/basic instance of the rudiment isn't triplet based. Thanks for the correction, I just know that a lot of people get confused when they see these in Wilcoxon's, since it isn't indicated that they are triplet based there.


Fox.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I'm confused. My old bible (The Complete Book of Modern Drumming by Norman Grossman) had the five stroke roll in 3/4, six and seven stroke rolls in 4/4, and seven and eight stroke rolls in 5/4 etc.

Het \o/, maybe this vid by a forum member, Matthias, will help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9KIHKHMbgM ... he goes through the table of time, breaking the beat into 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

I found the idea much easier to grasp once I heard the subdivisions Matthias played ... we hear these things in music we listen to all the time but don't always know what's happening.
 
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