A stupid tuning rant

drums with die cast hoops top and bottom snare everything (but bass drum doh, I find..
don't change with every room indoors or outdoors Every room changes when they're in there!

(I noticed that long time ago; the near-field doesn't change no matter the room/outdoor/indoors/
they got a strong reliable infield , consistent, reliable, unshakable, immovable, unperturbed....
****** change 'with a strong breeze' (like if a door opens or if someone walks past..
 
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Chris Whitten said:
I long ago stopped using standard leg mounts and tom legs. They just instantly choked the sound for me, thinning it out.
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True for "standard leg mounts" with standard rubber cap feet. But, after dealing with suspended floor toms for a decade I decided I could no longer stand it and drilled to install leg brackets on the 14" and 16" toms on each of my two gigging sets. True to your statement, the standard legs I bought did not sound as good as the floor tom suspended. However, as soon as I installed Pearl Air Suspension floor tom feet (https://www.amazon.com/Pearl-R40-Suspension-8-inch-DiameterLegs/dp/B0002E26LK) the toms went back to the suspended sound. The difference between actual suspended and Pearl Air Suspension feet was indecipherable in my opinion. And 100% for certain, the difference between standard rubber feet and Air Suspension was huge.
 
ottog1979 said:
True for "standard leg mounts" with standard rubber cap feet. But, after dealing with suspended floor toms for a decade I decided I could no longer stand it and drilled to install leg brackets on the 14" and 16" toms on each of my two gigging sets. True to your statement, the standard legs I bought did not sound as good as the floor tom suspended. However, as soon as I installed Pearl Air Suspension floor tom feet (https://www.amazon.com/Pearl-R40-Suspension-8-inch-DiameterLegs/dp/B0002E26LK) the toms went back to the suspended sound. The difference between actual suspended and Pearl Air Suspension feet was indecipherable in my opinion. And 100% for certain, the difference between standard rubber feet and Air Suspension was huge.
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Interesting you bring this up. I added the Pearl Air Suspension feet to my Pearl Birch/Mahogany set's 16th ×16, and the sound really opened up with the greater sustain I was looking for. On my Ludwig Classic Maple set, not so much benefit was realized since Ludwig already installs a plastic bumper gasket between the shell and the leg mounting bracket. The Air Suspension feet didn't make a difference, oddly enough. In addition, Ludwig floor tom toms in my experience, have sustain for days!
 
I usually tune mine the night before a gig and whatever they sound like on stage is whatever they sound like onstage: good, bad, or ugly.
 
I believe drumhead collars are more sensitive to changes in temperature and humidity. Newer heads also take a bit more time to conform to the bearing edges.
Once, while loading up the van for a gig I brought a 12" Roto Tom along and as I was tapping it coming outside into mild but slightly humid air I could hear the pitch go down ever so slightly. Temperature and humidity messing with the mylar.
 
Friday night, I'm playing in a local room with a low ceiling that opens up over the bar area. The drums sound like cardboard boxes where we set up, probably due to the low ceiling. It doesn't matter which set I bring; they all sound like crap to me in there. There's nothing I can do about it. The low ceiling sucks up all the resonance of the drums.

But, walk out by the bar, and they sound a lot better, so go figure.
 
Supraman5x14 said:
Interesting you bring this up. I added the Pearl Air Suspension feet to my Pearl Birch/Mahogany set's 16th ×16, and the sound really opened up with the greater sustain I was looking for. On my Ludwig Classic Maple set, not so much benefit was realized since Ludwig already installs a plastic bumper gasket between the shell and the leg mounting bracket. The Air Suspension feet didn't make a difference, oddly enough. In addition, Ludwig floor tom toms in my experience, have sustain for days!
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That has been my experience, too. Getting them to sustain enough is never a problem. Usually, if I have to make tuning adjustments, it's to shorten the note, not lengthen it.
 
Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but I have found that for floor toms, sometimes the floor surface can have an impact as well. I recall a concrete floor on one gig sucked the life out of my 16" floor tom....
 
Ugh...playing outdoors. Ambient air temp and esp. humidity can have a huge effect on how we perceive sound waves.

RE: Atmospheric attenuation of airwavs - The attenuation increases with increasing frequency. The results also showed that the attenuation increases rapidly with increasing the relative humidity, reaching a peak when the relative humidity is between 20 and 30% and the occurrence of this peak at certain value of relative humidity depends on the frequency.
 
JimmyM said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…

Drums are weird.
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It’s because we’re not playing a pitched instrument. And because drum sound is so much more complex than a vibrating string. And because our sound propagates both up and down from the drum. And because preference on drum sound varies tremendously, depending on the person, the room, and the style of music.

That’s my take, anyway
 
Push pull stroke said:
It’s because we’re not playing a pitched instrument. And because drum sound is so much more complex than a vibrating string. And because our sound propagates both up and down from the drum. And because preference on drum sound varies tremendously, depending on the person, the room, and the style of music.

That’s my take, anyway
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Geez, when you put it like that, it all seems so hopeless!
 
My floor tom always sounded dead and choked at this one venue, i bought those Pearl Air Suspension feet and it changed everything. Maybe the stage material ( pressed board instead of hard wood??) made a difference but something was choking the drum when it was placed down as opposed to holdingthe rim like you did.
 
Jasta 11 said:
My floor tom always sounded dead and choked at this one venue, i bought those Pearl Air Suspension feet and it changed everything. Maybe the stage material ( pressed board instead of hard wood??) made a difference but something was choking the drum when it was placed down as opposed to holdingthe rim like you did.
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I always wondered about those, but my floor tom doesn't give me any issues so I've never pursued them. (My rack toms, on the other hand.....I've ordered suspension mounts for those, hoping that will fix the issue)
 
PorkPieGuy said:
First of all, my drums hate weather. All weather. All my drums. New heads. Old heads. Don't matter. They don't wanna leave the house. I think they hate me as well because I hit them a lot. It makes me want to hit them harder. I think I have issues. I know I have issues.

Anyways, I played a festival a couple of weeks ago, so I took my lovely WMP Ludwig CMs. When I arrived, the stage wasn't set yet, so I thought I'd tune my floor toms while I waited. So I took each out of the case, held it by the rim in one hand, and I hit it with my stick with the other. I'd tuned them while suspended from the rim, and they sounded glorious. Once I got on stage, I mounted the legs (factory legs, factory leg brackets, etc.), and I hit them and the sound bad, so I had to go back and tweak them. I finally got them sounding really good, and they sat on a covered stage during the day for about 3-4 hours. No direct sunlight. Not humid. Not dry. Just a beautiful fall day with a gentle breeze. I got up and to play the set, and sure enough, they sounded bad. I did some tuning on the spot and got them sounding ok, but they were being finicky.

The batters were a few days old and had spent ample time seating. The resos are less than a year old. (Pinstripes over Ambassador Clears, a tried-and-true combo for me.) I don't know man, it's just frustrating sometimes.

Sorry for the coffee-fueled, work-avoiding rant.
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Sorry you're having issues with your drums. That really sucks. For your sake, I hope they shape up soon and realize you're only hitting them out of your unabashed love for them.
...anyway...
The problem with your floor toms is you held them by the rim.
I stopped doing that a long time ago (says the man with a RIMS holding his 10" tom on his LCM kit).
The trip flange hoops can flex under the weight of a floor tom and cause you to tune to the stress implied on it from holding it up by the rim.
You could've supported the shell on your finger tips, or better yet, set them on the ground and checked the tuning with them mounted as they would be on stage.
 
Elvis said:
The problem with your floor toms is you held them by the rim.
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That's what I figured. I'm definitely tuning with their legs mounted next time. Thanks!
 
PorkPieGuy said:
First of all, my drums hate weather. All weather. All my drums. New heads. Old heads. Don't matter. They don't wanna leave the house. I think they hate me as well because I hit them a lot. It makes me want to hit them harder. I think I have issues. I know I have issues.

Anyways, I played a festival a couple of weeks ago, so I took my lovely WMP Ludwig CMs. When I arrived, the stage wasn't set yet, so I thought I'd tune my floor toms while I waited. So I took each out of the case, held it by the rim in one hand, and I hit it with my stick with the other. I'd tuned them while suspended from the rim, and they sounded glorious. Once I got on stage, I mounted the legs (factory legs, factory leg brackets, etc.), and I hit them and the sound bad, so I had to go back and tweak them. I finally got them sounding really good, and they sat on a covered stage during the day for about 3-4 hours. No direct sunlight. Not humid. Not dry. Just a beautiful fall day with a gentle breeze. I got up and to play the set, and sure enough, they sounded bad. I did some tuning on the spot and got them sounding ok, but they were being finicky.

The batters were a few days old and had spent ample time seating. The resos are less than a year old. (Pinstripes over Ambassador Clears, a tried-and-true combo for me.) I don't know man, it's just frustrating sometimes.

Sorry for the coffee-fueled, work-avoiding rant.
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No need to apologize for Ranting about Tuning. Since Resurrecting playing Drums after 50 YEARS in 2019 (I posted my"story" many times B4 here), I have found that Tuning Drums the most Frustrating thing at times (despite Rob Brown's Videos). I'm far from being a pro - never played a Gig Inside or out, I play for "pleasure" in my Mancave Finished basement along to MY MUSIC, about 1 hour a day. I knew nothing of drum tuning way back then [1967-69], but have become educated this time around. I've learned of Tuning, various Drum heads (and different drums for that matter), and other Little secrets/Hacks. I find that my drums can sound "pretty Good" one day, and then not so good the next! Then I started tweaking batter and Reso Heads, and the circus cycle starts, feeding my OCD. Yes, even at 72, I have some OCD. The Strive for "perfection" is a real bitch to one's Psyche.
I'm sure you know much more than I, but I did stumble upon using Evans E-Rings on all of my toms (except a 8" rack tom) to control the Over ringing feedback. FYI....PDP Concept Maple Drum Kit - 7 Drums purchased USED in 2021. The Most Fickle freaking Tom is the 12" rack Tom, I struggle finding the Goldilocks sweet spot.
 
Good news is nobody other than other drummers, a producer or SOME other musicians can hear the tuning incosistencies in a floor tom.

People want to hear you play. They don't care about pitch bends or wonky overtones.... they can't hear if your first floor tom is a perfect whatever from your second floor tom.... as long as you hit the drum when you meant to hit it the audience is happy. They can't hear 99% of what you're hearing.
 
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