A serious thread... (regarding a Buddy Rich quote)
- Thread starter Bo Eder
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
I feel like Buddy would have overplayed a Rush song...sort of like Neil underplaying Buddy stuff.
I am not a fan of Buddy to be honest. As a young drummer, he did not impress me past the initial "he's fast" stuff, so I am sort of biased against him.
but the memes don't effect me at all, same with his comments
and I also think @Frank Godiva brings up a good point: what Buddy songs are memorable? I have the Krupa vs Rich drum battle album, and a few of those songs stick with me, more b/c I played the crap out of that album as a kid. But when I think of great jazz songs, nothing related to Rich comes up
jda
Diamond Member
you'll never know Jimmy.
1 he wouldn't be surrounded by strict jazz players 2 if the money was right you have -nor has anyone- any idea
on how he would approach it
It's pure Speculation that could go either way
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2 hit wonder
Junior Member
Well I'll abstain from your discussion.
Because we're discussing something you claimed no body cared about with 4 exclamation points.
2 hit wonder
Junior Member
Yeah, he probably woulda done it as a result of not embracing the music (understanding it) or perhaps as an effort to outplay Neil with a bunch of notes. It wouldn't be as good, but it's believable that he could do it.
Same. The Muppet Show and Dick Cavett are my experiences with his playing until YouTube.
Can't argue with that. Wasn't Rich better than Krupa though?
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
not to start an age old argument, but in my mind, No. No way. Krupa was better to me b/c he was more musical, and was generally a nicer human being. He could be fast and showy, but also had other elements of playing that I don't think Buddy rich had. I am sort of biased b/c he knew my grandfather some how from Chicago connections, so I had more of an inside look at him, thought I never actually met him. I was told that I saw him play live here in town when I was like 2 or 3, but I obviously don't remember that
DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
Eh, I've always been more of a Genre Krupa fan than a Buddy fan anyway.
And I much prefer Louie Bellosn. Louise was a class act all the way.
And I much prefer Louie Bellosn. Louise was a class act all the way.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
He can play it but it didn't sit well or feel right. Denis said upfront that the music was not "him", and you can hear it. It's not about complexity because, if he was given a complex fusion tune like Captain Fingers, he would have killed it.
It's about slipping into the innards of the music like Luke Skywalker keeping warm in the dead Tauntaun
Drummers need to listen to a style a fair bit before playing it to internalise the feel. A good player can make a decent fist of almost anything but that's not the same as nailing it. You gotta feel the lurve.When I was young my sister was in a LTR with a top jazz sax player. I used to see his band all the time and picked the brains of his drummers. One time, he had to hire a rock session drummer for a bop gig, and the guy was a tad intimidated. I actually liked what he played more than many of the specialist jazz drummers, but that was probably my rock ears. What he played sounded clear and crisp, and it all swung nicely, but I did notice that he was much more timbrally limited that the jazzers and sometimes didn't burn as hard. He sounded more like Bill Bruford than Brian Blade, you might say. I'd be overjoyed to sound even remotely like either.
Another thing. When versatile players spend a lot of time in a genre, it can take them some re-adjustment to switch too, even if they're returning to their first genre. You're not going to be playing rimshots on a loose-tuned 14" mounted tom with pinstripe heads that is designed to go boom. Nor will you be smacking down a fierce backbeat at bop gigs. There's different ways of moving your limbs and your brain in rock and jazz (esp bop).
A side note - Brian Blade playing with Black Dub. That was super interesting. He played pop and rock like a jazz player and it worked brilliantly. Meanwhile, Bruford left the prog fusion of UK and started the first iteration of his jazz band, Earthworks, using his crazy 80s syndrums and popping backbeat. It also worked brilliantly. I enjoy that kind of crossover even more than traditional, authentic music. It sounds fresh to my ear.
So there's a huge "it depends" around the jazz and rock questions. Maybe, in time, these questions will be replaced by the relative difficulty of rock drumming and programming?
Geez I talk a lot - just another rambling old fart haha ... "back in my day ..."
bud7h4
Silver Member
Just want to point out, regarding the Rush comparisons; nothing Peart played was remarkably technically advanced. The reason Rush is a challenge to play is mostly not because of technique, it's because of all the detail, and the precision of it.
Compared to other rock and pop, there's nearly an album's worth of drumming in some of those songs. If you're going to play them as recorded, it's a lot to get right in one take.
Buddy's playing, on the other hand; you either have the education and skills to physically play it or you don't.
As far as Buddy theoretically putting his own spin on Rush tunes, it would just ruin the music regardless of his unquestionable ability.
Improvisation makes jazz great. But Rush's music is like a grid. Like most classical music, every note needs to be in it's place or it's just wrong.
Compared to other rock and pop, there's nearly an album's worth of drumming in some of those songs. If you're going to play them as recorded, it's a lot to get right in one take.
Buddy's playing, on the other hand; you either have the education and skills to physically play it or you don't.
As far as Buddy theoretically putting his own spin on Rush tunes, it would just ruin the music regardless of his unquestionable ability.
Improvisation makes jazz great. But Rush's music is like a grid. Like most classical music, every note needs to be in it's place or it's just wrong.
Push pull stroke
Platinum Member
This is assuming Buddy would be playing the material without much rehearsal time. If he had a month or two of daily rehearsals, including listening to recordings of the rehearsals and getting feedback from band members, I guarantee you he could nail it. But I agree, without that prep time, it wouldn’t sound like Rush. It would sound like a great jazz drummer doing his best to sound like Rush, but not having enough prep time
bud7h4
Silver Member
No doubt Buddy Rich would nail it. That's kind of my point, that Rush (and similar music) is more about learning the song than being profoundly technically capable. The challenge is not leaving anything out, and not having to substitute Neil's precise, deliberate notes with your own . . . stuff.
Contrarily, the challenge to playing Buddy's music is, frankly, even being able to make your hands do what his could do.
Push pull stroke
Platinum Member
Yeah. I mean, it’s certainly possible to learn buddy’s solos note-for-note, but his genius was just making it up in the moment out of little bits and pieces he had worked on. And playing with enough intensity to hold your interest
steadypocket
Gold Member
What honor? The guy was an egotistical jerk.
Push pull stroke
Platinum Member
steadypocket
Gold Member
You hit the nail on the head. What did Buddy actually create? He mostly played big band standards, right? Guys like Gavin Harrison and Peart have created music. Their creative contributions were as instrumental to the compositions as their band mates’. One song’s parts are as unique as the next. Buddy had amazing rudimentary technique, but once you’ve seen one solo, you’ve seen them all. That egotistical jerk has the nerve to knock rock drummers?