8 vs. 10 Lug & Bearing Edge Question

cobamnator

Senior Member
I know this has been covered before. But bear with me. My question is very specific. Here we go...


I am going to build a Snare from a Keller VSS 6 Ply Mahogany Shell (I'm not sure with or without Re-Rings). 6 1/2" x 14" or 7" x 14"

I'm choosing mahogany because, I want something a little smoother sounding than maple or birch, and something that has a little more lower end "Umph".

The sound I am going for is a Wet, Fat, Big, Warm sound, that is used in alot of Modern "Contemporary" Pop songs. Just a snare you can really "Feel".

Those snares have a Musical, lower, "umph" overtones, and not a trash-can-type overtone.


i.e. The intro to this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsaZOc8y-FM&feature=related

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_zRDchkDXg

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mct-0f0vEdE


Sorry if you don't dig those tunes, but That’s the snare sound I’m after.

However, would 8 or 10 lugs have ANY bearing on the overtones, and achieving lower / Fat tunings?

Would (aluminum / light) Die cast hoop on the batter, and triple flanged on the reso side be best?

Or just All triple flanged? (I'll go wood hoops if I have to...simply because of expense)

As far as bearing edges, would getting Both sides Fully rounded edges be too much?
Or what about getting the top rounded and the bottom 45 degree? Or Rezo side Rounded, and top 45 ect.
 

double_G

Silver Member
i don't have all the answers to your spec Qs, but i have a custom kit made from Keller's Vintage Mahogany line w/ VSS. the snare sounds exactly like what you are describing: "mahogany because, I want something a little smoother sounding than maple or birch, and something that has a little more lower end "Umph". The sound I am going for is a Wet, Fat, Big, Warm sound, that is used in alot of Modern "Contemporary" Pop songs. Just a snare you can really "Feel"...and not a trash-can-type overtone."

here are my specs - the core is Birch not Poplar or Maple: 8 ply cross laminated birch w/ African ribbon mahogany surface ply in and out of the shell. inner ringed w/ graduated width maple rings: 3 ply on the toms and snare. 5 ply on the bass drum. 5 1/2 14 snare. s-hoops for hoops, 10 lug drum.

the tone is hard to describe but definitely vintage sounding w/ a modern vibe...you know it is a well made modern instrument but it's got that "sound". snare does have a nice warm/wet pop & that nice slightly dry studio crack w/ no excessive snare rattle or metallic "clang-yang-yang" overtone. very controlled but lots of character you can use w/ jazz comping, FACE MELTING back-beats or cool latin stuff like cross sticks / overtoney rim shots / snares off as tom / etc. again this is a 5.5" snare & i run it wide open w/ a coated Diplomat on top & it still sounds fat. 6.5 or 7" deep with this combo would be insane & very FAT. even fatter w/ a thicker snare like reverse dot, Ambas X or Fiberskyn.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
i don't have all the answers to your spec Qs, but i have a custom kit made from Keller's Vintage Mahogany line w/ VSS. the snare sounds exactly like what you are describing: "mahogany because, I want something a little smoother sounding than maple or birch, and something that has a little more lower end "Umph". The sound I am going for is a Wet, Fat, Big, Warm sound, that is used in alot of Modern "Contemporary" Pop songs. Just a snare you can really "Feel"...and not a trash-can-type overtone."

here are my specs - the core is Birch not Poplar or Maple: 8 ply cross laminated birch w/ African ribbon mahogany surface ply in and out of the shell. inner ringed w/ graduated width maple rings: 3 ply on the toms and snare. 5 ply on the bass drum. 5 1/2 14 snare. s-hoops for hoops, 10 lug drum..

I did not know Keller makes 8 ply mohag. shells.
And what do you mean by "cross laminated birch w/ African ribbon mahogany surface ply in and out of the shell"?

And did you add the re-rings yourself?

I am still debating if I should go re-rings or not. Keller puts ½ inch deep 10-ply Maple reinforcement hoops on their mohag. shells
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I'd do a double 45 with a slight round over on the bottom, with a more rounded top edge.

The bottom head could be tensioned for as much or little sensitivity as you want, but being slightly rounded, it won't "cut" as much as a sharp edge. The top can give you the fatter sounding tone with a rounder edge.

8 lugs will be more "open" sounding, and probably closer to a much older drum.
I'd ask whoever is cutting the edges their opinion on what you're going after for the lug count.

Re-rings typically bring up the pitch of the shell, but the shell you are talking about probably sounds really cool.
 

Cameo

Gold Member
Isn't Jordan using his 13" x 6.5 Yamaha signature snare with wood hoops in that video?
You sir have good taste in music.
John Mayer = love! <3
 

Shedboyxx

Silver Member
Regarding drum composition.

I believe two of the videos have maple snares, both of them Yamaha, both with wood hoops:

John Mayer (Vultures) - I read that Jordan recorded that with a Yamaha Elvin Jones 7 x 14 maple snare.

Band of Horses - Pretty sure that's an Anton Fig model.

I agree that mahogany is an excellent choice for warmth. However, under similar circumstances you may be able to get your target sound from a maple drum and have a bit of versatility. Similar to a head comparison, you can warm up a drum with brighter characteristics easier than brightening up a warmer sound.

Just thinkin' :)

Jim
 

double_G

Silver Member
cobamnator -- built by Dale at fortunedrums.com. i think this was special run (i am finding out) as the regular Vintage Mahogany show on Keller's site spec 6 ply w/ a Poplar core [ http://www.kelleratthecore.com/vintage_mahogany.html ]. plus the outer ply in my case is African Ribbon Mahogany w/ Birch in the center. the "cross laminated birch w/ African ribbon mahogany surface ply in and out of the shell" is Dale-speak for Mahog/Birch/Mahog shell where the Mahog is on the outside & inside of the shell.

some pics:

+ https://picasaweb.google.com/ggill1970/FortuneDrums

i will also ask on the Maple rings if these came thru Keller (they offer them when you buy these shells) or Dale hand fabbed them. i think hand fabbed...
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
I'd do a double 45 with a slight round over on the bottom, with a more rounded top edge.

The bottom head could be tensioned for as much or little sensitivity as you want, but being slightly rounded, it won't "cut" as much as a sharp edge. The top can give you the fatter sounding tone with a rounder edge.

8 lugs will be more "open" sounding, and probably closer to a much older drum.
I'd ask whoever is cutting the edges their opinion on what you're going after for the lug count.

Re-rings typically bring up the pitch of the shell, but the shell you are talking about probably sounds really cool.

First off thank you for your responses everybody.


Karl, you said...

"I'd do a double 45 with a slight round over on the bottom, with a more rounded top edge."

Since this is a 6 ply shell, What do you mean by "Slight roundover" (i.e. 45 degree inner cut of the 4 inner plys, than round over the 2 outer plys. Or something like that)?


Then for the batter head, do you mean do half of the shell 45, and the outer half rounded over?

What would happen if I did that (inner 3 plys 45, outer 3 plys round over) on BOTH the rezo and batter? Don’t some Ludwig (snares?) have a 45 Batter and a RoundOver Rezo side?
 
Top