25 or 6 to 4

drumsforlife

Junior Member
I've always played it with a quick double stroke on the kick leading to the snare hit on 4. I have talked about this with a few people and the theory we usually come up with is that it's a guitar doing a palm-muted chuck type of sound.
 

rtliquid

Senior Member
To me, it almost sounds like da4 are snare hits, along with the hihat on 4, but I can easily talk myself out of that, too.
 
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Ghostnote

Guest
It's an overdubbed snare and sloshy hi hat, eq'ed a little thinner and panned more to the left than the main snare and hat tracks.
 
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Ghostnote

Guest
I just watched one and Seraphine was doing two 16ths on the snare followed by just open hi hat and kick on the back beat.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
I play it as a triplet using HH, BD and snare and it seems to get the right accent. Regardless of how you play it, its an integral part of the groove and it has to be there. I used to play it using a quick double on the HH followed by the snare. Whatever, it still worked.
 

DrummerCA35

Senior Member
I've wondered about this one too. I also used to be a die-hard Chicago nut for many,many years, going to many concerts, going to the fan convention in Las Vegas, going to a meet-and-greet and so forth. I got to meet Tris as Danny was long gone by then. Along with so many of you, I LOVE Danny's drumming, who's fills and style and beats just scream out the CHICAGO sound.
 

moxman

Silver Member
I just watched one and Seraphine was doing two 16ths on the snare followed by just open hi hat and kick on the back beat.
Yes.. I used to drive myself crazy trying to figure out was going on there.. I was torn between ;
- a recording effect or a subtle guitar chop adding to the ca-chunk!
- a ghosted double upstroke on the ca-chunk

I did see videos at the time of Chicago playing it live and he wasn't getting that sound at all.. so maybe it was in the recording..
- but then I came around to - it's a signature lick and if it doesn't sound like that then it's not authentic - just a cheap copy..

So.. I played it with a fast double ghosted upstroke (with one hand)... also known as a 'pull out' stroke. When I recorded the band.. it did sound like the recording.. but you really have to 'whip it'!
 
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drumming sort of person

Guest
1 2 3 da4. What is the voicing on "da4"? It almost sounds like something is double-tracked.
The original recording has two complete drum tracks. One playing straight, with steady 8th notes pumping on the bass drum, and the other track playing busier stuff on the snare and all the fills near the end. The intro has the guitar track pretty loud and that's why you can't really hear what the drums are doing.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I never knew what this song title meant until recently. It's a time. 25 to four. 25 or(2)6 to four. That's the time in the morning that the inspiration for this song came about. "Waiting for the break of day...."
 

DrummerCA35

Senior Member
Are any of you guys old enough to have seen Chicago play this song when Terry Kath was in the band?

First show I saw was in 1982, so, never saw Kath do it.
 

Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
Isn't it some kind of reverse effect? Live it sounds quite different, not at all like even pretending to do something similar to the album recording.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
I never knew what this song title meant until recently. It's a time. 25 to four. 25 or(2)6 to four. That's the time in the morning that the inspiration for this song came about. "Waiting for the break of day...."
damn ....and I thought it had to do with the Chicago riot of 1968.
Never listened closely, but I always thought it was a short double on the kick on the +4 or flam on snare.
 

Texan

Member
Do a YouTube search "Danny Seraphine 25 or 6 to 4" and you can see and hear how he played it. It is almost identical to the two times I saw it performed from about 20 feet away (standing at the front of the stage in front of Peter Cetera where I could get a perfect view of the snare side of his kit) during concerts in 1972 and 1973.
 

Frank

Gold Member
I always played it with the da as a left hand double on the snare and the 4 just another HH.

Cool explanation of the title. Didn't know that.

Chicago IX: Chicago's Greatest Hits is one of the greatest albums of all time.
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
I have Danny's DVD and yes, it was a straight beat, then he over-dubbed a 5-stroke roll leading into the back beat on 4.
 
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Ghostnote

Guest
Are the 2 16th snare hits done with the same hand?
No, he was alternating. Right hand- snare, left hand- snare, right hand hi hat (with bass drum).....But, like someone else posted, it's not even close to the album version, just something that worked live.
 
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