20" or 22" ride...which is more versatile?

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
I'm looking to get a Zildjian K Constantinople medium ride and I'm having the worst time making up my mind about which size to get. I got rid of a vintage 60s A medium ride and replaced it with a 20" Armand. I like the Armand, but it doesn't seem to cut through the guitars like the 22" did.

I actually like the Armand when playing jazz, it sounds like J. Morello with the Dave Brubeck quartet, but now I want something a bit drier.

So the question is: Do I get the 20" and mic it if I have to be heard over the guitars, keyboards, etc, or should I get the 22" and hope to play with a light touch when I'm doing acoustic gigs?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Roger
 
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TTNW

Pioneer Member
I would get the 22. K Cons are darker in tone and if those mid frequencies get swallowed up a bit more in your music mix scenarios, you will be happier with the little extra volume and projection you can get from a little bigger ride.

I also think it would be easier to adjust your touch for lower volume gigs than it will be to have to play the 20" more agressively to produce more volume.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
First I would try to play them both and see how they sound. Sound bytes on the Zildjian site. I know that's the obvious answer but if you can find them side by side go hit them a few times.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Is there really that much volume difference?
If you can only have one ride, I would encourage you to go with the cymbal that gives you the more satisfying ping, bell and shoulder bow sound regardless of size.
Cymbals aren't versatile, it's the drummer who has to be versatile.
Please your ears first. There's always mics. Picking a cymbal so you can be heard to me is no reason to buy a cymbal, it's the sound it makes that should be the guide. Pick the better sounding cymbal and let the mics give you volume if you need it.

Or get both.
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
Is there really that much volume difference?
If you can only have one ride, I would encourage you to go with the cymbal that gives you the more satisfying ping, bell and shoulder bow sound regardless of size.
Cymbals aren't versatile, it's the drummer who has to be versatile.
Please your ears first. There's always mics. Picking a cymbal so you can be heard to me is no reason to buy a cymbal, it's the sound it makes that should be the guide. Pick the better sounding cymbal and let the mics give you volume if you need it.

Or get both.
I've listened to sound files on CymbalsOnly and found that there are some 20s I like and some I don't like. Same with the 22s. With mics I can cut through with either one, so your suggestion of going with ping, bell and shoulder seems a good suggestion.
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
First I would try to play them both and see how they sound. Sound bytes on the Zildjian site. I know that's the obvious answer but if you can find them side by side go hit them a few times.
Like I said in the last post, I've listened for a couple of months to Cymbalsonly sound files and there is a great deal of variation of sound within sizes. Some sound pleasing, others don't...that goes for both sizes.
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
I would get the 22. K Cons are darker in tone and if those mid frequencies get swallowed up a bit more in your music mix scenarios, you will be happier with the little extra volume and projection you can get from a little bigger ride.

I also think it would be easier to adjust your touch for lower volume gigs than it will be to have to play the 20" more agressively to produce more volume.
It also seems to have more wash, which to me means it wil more easily cut through. I guess I have to balance that with the fact that I can mic either one.

Ah, decisions, I hate to make them when I like both choices.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
It depends. More wash will come through but the stick sound could be weak. Either way don't worry about it. If you're happy with the sound of the cymbal, you'll play it confidently and be heard.
 

Drums&Beer

Senior Member
When shopping for a cymbal pay specific attention to weight. For instance if you look at cymbalsonly.com the weight of each cymbal is listed in grams. If you take a 22" cymbal that weighs 2300g and compare it to a 20" model that weighs the same, the 20" will have a more presence and projection (same mass, less surface area = thicker cymbal). If you like the sound of a particular 20" model but prefer the same model in a 22" size look for a 22" that weighs a couple hundred grams more. Typically the more weight you add the more ping and definition/stick articulation your get.

Happy Shopping.
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
When shopping for a cymbal pay specific attention to weight. For instance if you look at cymbalsonly.com the weight of each cymbal is listed in grams. If you take a 22" cymbal that weighs 2300g and compare it to a 20" model that weighs the same, the 20" will have a more presence and projection (same mass, less surface area = thicker cymbal). If you like the sound of a particular 20" model but prefer the same model in a 22" size look for a 22" that weighs a couple hundred grams more. Typically the more weight you add the more ping and definition/stick articulation your get.

Happy Shopping.
Thanks D&B, this is great advice. I've noticed that the weights vary significantly with Zildjian Ks of the same size.
 

Drums&Beer

Senior Member
Thanks D&B, this is great advice. I've noticed that the weights vary significantly with Zildjian Ks of the same size.
You bet! Good luck finding the right one.

Personally I am a big fan of 22" models.:) I think they tend to have a bit more character. I don't own too many Zildjian cymbals any more, but I have always wanted a Kcon. Tony at Cymbalsonly.com got me hooked on Bosphorus & Istanbul Agop cymbals. Typically I have found that a 22" in the 2300-2450g range tends to be very versatile. Heavy enough for moderately amplified gigs and flexible enough dynamically to cover those more delicate jazz affairs. With 22's if you dip too low in weight you get a lot of wash and not enough stick definition. There are exceptions to this, especially with the unlathed or partially lathed Turkish models, but with fully lathed cymbals striking that balance between spread and weight is key. Of course none of this is ever exact. Most important, you just want to find one that sounds and feels good too you.
 
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caddywumpus

Platinum Member
Personally, I find medium-weight 20" cymbals to be too pingy. The 22" model would allow it to "open up" a bit more with wash. Also, a 22" ride *should* be louder in theory, due to the capacity to move more air, but there are SO many variables in each individual cymbal that make it impossible to state some hard-and-fast rule about that correlation. But, in general, 20"s are more pingy whereas 22"s are more "roary". I love my 20" K Con Light...it has stick and roar, but might be a tad quiet for what you're looking for.

My advice: trust your ears, and be sure to try a cymbal out in person before you buy it so you know exactly what you're getting...
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
I was going to buy from Cymbalsonly, but today I was in LA so I went to the Professional Drum Shop and they had two K Con 20s, a K Con 22 and the new Bounce Ride. I pulled the trigger and got the 22 medium. I can't wait to get it home and weigh it (and play it!).

Thanks to everyone for their input.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
Yay! I'm happy for you. Nothing like bringing a new cymbal home and discovering it's wonderfulness.

Have fun.
 

RogerLudwig

Senior Member
I get to keep my gig money, so that's what goes into the gear fund. She's still not quite sure just how much I make and I plan to keep it that way if at all possible.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
And explaining to the wife why you need another cymbal ...

Davo
I get to keep my gig money, so that's what goes into the gear fund. She's still not quite sure just how much I make and I plan to keep it that way if at all possible.
That's what I should do with my gig money, and for just that reason. Let's see... New $ymbal / (gig$ x #gigs/year) = 213.6 years! (give or take a hundred years, or so)

Ooh, can't wait!
 

Drums&Beer

Senior Member
I get to keep my gig money, so that's what goes into the gear fund. She's still not quite sure just how much I make and I plan to keep it that way if at all possible.
That's the same arrangement I have worked out!

Last year was a great year for me on the gig front. It translated into a set of Bosphorus hats, two new rides, and some Yamaha MCA's. I was gigging A LOT though.

This year I am no where near a busy. Guess I'll have to wait, or sell a few things off before picking up anything else.

Congrats on the KCON.
 

MikeN

Member
I love my 22" K Con medium! It is very versatile. There are many different sounds you can get out of it, it seems to give you just what you need when you need it. As others have said, let the mic's control the volume. I have played it during an acoustic set and it sounded just as good as playing regular. I use wood tipped sticks, Vic Firth 5B's for everything, which helps. On occasion I have used nylon tipped sticks, but I prefer wood tipped. Either way, you'll love it.
 
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