14" vs 16" hi-hats

[brady]

Why not split the difference with 15"'s?
I like the full-bodied wash of larger hi-hats when open, but cannot stand how they sound clunky and get lost when closed. I once tried a 16" K Constantinople (the world's finest crash on its own) over a 16" A Thin Crash and it was disastrous: no definition whatsoever, and trash can lid clashing noise when open.
A reasonably thin, bright 15" pair (read: 2002 SE's) is where it's at for me.

A little update...

Getting some 15s is exactly what I've done. I've mentioned here quite a bit that 15" hats haven't really suited me; they are typically not the "Goldilocks" hats I want them to be. I've had several in the past and usually found them simultaneously too much and not enough.

The last ones I had were 15" Giant Beats, which I sort of do regret selling. But I also recall them being pretty "hissy", hence my purchase of 16" Giant Beats. Really dig those...

However, my aversion to 15" hats may have eased a bit with the 15" Big Beats I got a few weeks ago. They sound and feel pretty great, similar to the Big Beat 16s I have but just a touch softer and quieter. I haven't gone back to any 14" hats since I got these. I do wish they had sliiiightly more foot chick, but I recall thinking that about the 16s until I heard them at a gig.

It's just funny to me that I wasn't that impressed with the Big Beat line when it first came out, and now I have both hats, the 18", 20", and the 22".

 

[Level42]

My absolute fav hats are Paiste Signature 14” Dark Crisp. I could use them for anything, but I also have 15” Giant Beat and 15” Big Beat so I will use what suits the gig best. I have played around with trying to make some larger hats from crash cymbals but have never been happy with the results.

That being said, my favorite drummer in my area (I also play gtar and he drums for the band I play gtar in) has used a Paiste Dimensions 16” thin crash over a Sabian 16” AAX stage crash as his only hats forever and they sound great in any situation. Also, I think he could probably play a set of pie tins and they would sound good. Sometimes it is just in the player.

 

[Ruok]

I generally prefer 13" and 14" hats because I prefer the hats to be on the brighter side to sit on top of all the frequencies of the music and I also prefer the quickness of relatively smaller hats. Not that some bigger hats can't do that too. I may have mentioned this in another thread, that I once paired someone else's Paiste Alpha 16" Thin Crash over a 16" Alpha Medium Crash in the practice room (both were the newer Alpha versions) and was very impressed with the results. I didn't care for those crashes as crashes. But put them together as 16" hats and voila! A great sounding pair of hi-hats.

 

[brady]

My absolute fav hats are Paiste Signature 14” Dark Crisp. I could use them for anything, but I also have 15” Giant Beat and 15” Big Beat so I will use what suits the gig best. I have played around with trying to make some larger hats from crash cymbals but have never been happy with the results.

That being said, my favorite drummer in my area (I also play gtar and he drums for the band I play gtar in) has used a Paiste Dimensions 16” thin crash over a Sabian 16” AAX stage crash as his only hats forever and they sound great in any situation. Also, I think he could probably play a set of pie tins and they would sound good. Sometimes it is just in the player.

I have a pair of the Signature Dark Crisp hats too. My favorite 14" hats.

 

[Jml]

I’m in a 15” hi hat phase right now. 15” New Beats, 15” A Custom Mastersounds and just got a pair of A Avedis 15’s. Should be able to cover every situation with those 3.

 

[I-P]

A little update...

Getting some 15s is exactly what I've done. I've mentioned here quite a bit that 15" hats haven't really suited me; they are typically not the "Goldilocks" hats I want them to be. I've had several in the past and usually found them simultaneously too much and not enough.

The last ones I had were 15" Giant Beats, which I sort of do regret selling. But I also recall them being pretty "hissy", hence my purchase of 16" Giant Beats. Really dig those...

However, my aversion to 15" hats may have eased a bit with the 15" Big Beats I got a few weeks ago. They sound and feel pretty great, similar to the Big Beat 16s I have but just a touch softer and quieter. I haven't gone back to any 14" hats since I got these. I do wish they had sliiiightly more foot chick, but I recall thinking that about the 16s until I heard them at a gig.

It's just funny to me that I wasn't that impressed with the Big Beat line when it first came out, and now I have both hats, the 18", 20", and the 22".

Me too.
All the reason you listed and more.
I now run ALL PAISTE 2002 BLACK BIG BEATS.
15" Hi-hats, 19", 20", 21" for ride/crash.
Chefs

 

[Iristone]

A little update...

Getting some 15s is exactly what I've done. I've mentioned here quite a bit that 15" hats haven't really suited me; they are typically not the "Goldilocks" hats I want them to be. I've had several in the past and usually found them simultaneously too much and not enough.

The last ones I had were 15" Giant Beats, which I sort of do regret selling. But I also recall them being pretty "hissy", hence my purchase of 16" Giant Beats. Really dig those...

However, my aversion to 15" hats may have eased a bit with the 15" Big Beats I got a few weeks ago. They sound and feel pretty great, similar to the Big Beat 16s I have but just a touch softer and quieter. I haven't gone back to any 14" hats since I got these. I do wish they had sliiiightly more foot chick, but I recall thinking that about the 16s until I heard them at a gig.

It's just funny to me that I wasn't that impressed with the Big Beat line when it first came out, and now I have both hats, the 18", 20", and the 22".

Hey, I've moved away from 15", too, but I went a size smaller to 14". I like its crisper articulation, and with the right model (in my case the Formula 602 Sound Edge) the hiss could be contained.

I have a pair of the Signature Dark Crisp hats too. My favorite 14" hats.

That's a great pair, too! Paiste's New Beats if you ask me.

 

[A J]

I just got home after a gathering of musicians / jam session. The host of the event (a drummer) had Paiste 2002 15" hi hats. They were beyond sweet as were all his 2002 cymbals. I'm not sure if it was the size of hi hat that made them sound so nice or if it was the brand and model.

 

[Ruok]

I just got home after a gathering of musicians / jam session. The host of the event (a drummer) had Paiste 2002 15" hi hats. They were beyond sweet as were all his 2002 cymbals. I'm not sure if it was the size of hi hat that made them sound so nice or if it was the brand and model.

That's cool to hear, A J!

Forgive me for slightly going off topic. Before I ever actually laid a stick on 2002s, the complaints I had heard about them were that they are too "metallic", too "bright", too "loud", "tinny" and other adjectives. No offense to those who hold those opinions because I'm sure that those descriptions are absolutely true for many drummers who may prefer a different sound. Those descriptions were in my head before I ever tried any 2002s. When I finally got to actually play them, I was surprised to hear their actual sound. For me, they were warmer than expected. They were not as metallic as I was expecting. Not as tinny as I was expecting. Before hearing them in person I remember reading in Paiste's 1979 cymbal catalog that 2002s, though designed for louder music, still had lower frequencies among the mid and higher frequencies. I was kind of thinking that Paiste was not being quite honest about their true sound. But they were actually accurate in their statements. What occurred was I became a major 2002 fan and I fell in love with (after really disliking them at first) the 2002 sound edge hats. Then I fell for the Medium 2002 hats. I also have half of a 2oo2 Heavy hat. All of my 2002 hats are 13" and 14", but someday I may acquire the bigger sizes.

 

[Iristone]

2002's are incredibly warm (esp. crash) and clear (esp. ride). They are loud and bright for sure, but not in the bad way.
I've owned 15" 2002 hi-hats twice. I think the large sizes really brings out the warmth (almost smoky), but it still sizzles quite a bit with tremendous cut. I also bought 14" Formula 602's for a smoother tone with a higher pitch, but any 15" 2002 is still a keeper!

 

[brady]

That's cool to hear, A J!

Forgive me for slightly going off topic. Before I ever actually laid a stick on 2002s, the complaints I had heard about them were that they are too "metallic", too "bright", too "loud", "tinny" and other adjectives. No offense to those who hold those opinions because I'm sure that those descriptions are absolutely true for many drummers who may prefer a different sound. Those descriptions were in my head before I ever tried any 2002s. When I finally got to actually play them, I was surprised to hear their actual sound. For me, they were warmer than expected. They were not as metallic as I was expecting. Not as tinny as I was expecting. Before hearing them in person I remember reading in Paiste's 1979 cymbal catalog that 2002s, though designed for louder music, still had lower frequencies among the mid and higher frequencies. I was kind of thinking that Paiste was not being quite honest about their true sound. But they were actually accurate in their statements. What occurred was I became a major 2002 fan and I fell in love with (after really disliking them at first) the 2002 sound edge hats. Then I fell for the Medium 2002 hats. I also have half of a 2oo2 Heavy hat. All of my 2002 hats are 13" and 14", but someday I may acquire the bigger sizes.

Totally concur!!

Actually, playing on a set of Giant Beats made me literally purge all the other cymbals I was playing at the time.

Eventually, I got into a few 2002s. The 18" Crash is my favorite for louder gigs. I also have the 20" and 22" Rides. Both are amazing. I too found they weren't as harsh as I had heard. I think they get a bad reputation for that since they are labeled "the classic rock cymbal".

The only 2002 I've played that sort of had that harsh tinny sound was the 14" Sound-Edge hats. Way too loud for me. I also used to have a pair of regular 2002 Medium Hi-Hats. I sold those for something not quite as loud. Now I've been digging the Big Beats for quite a while.

 

[A J]

That's cool to hear, A J!

Forgive me for slightly going off topic. Before I ever actually laid a stick on 2002s, the complaints I had heard about them were that they are too "metallic", too "bright", too "loud", "tinny" and other adjectives. No offense to those who hold those opinions because I'm sure that those descriptions are absolutely true for many drummers who may prefer a different sound. Those descriptions were in my head before I ever tried any 2002s. When I finally got to actually play them, I was surprised to hear their actual sound. For me, they were warmer than expected. They were not as metallic as I was expecting. Not as tinny as I was expecting. Before hearing them in person I remember reading in Paiste's 1979 cymbal catalog that 2002s, though designed for louder music, still had lower frequencies among the mid and higher frequencies. I was kind of thinking that Paiste was not being quite honest about their true sound. But they were actually accurate in their statements. What occurred was I became a major 2002 fan and I fell in love with (after really disliking them at first) the 2002 sound edge hats. Then I fell for the Medium 2002 hats. I also have half of a 2oo2 Heavy hat. All of my 2002 hats are 13" and 14", but someday I may acquire the bigger sizes.

I'm 60 years old, have been playing drums on and off for 40 years and this is the first time I ever played 2002's. I'm not planning to go out and replace all my cymbals with 2002's, but if I were starting over, I'd have no problem going 100% with the 2002's. They're that good. The guy had 2 crashes and one ride. Every one of them sounded super sweet. I was very impressed.

 

[AudioWonderland]

I run sound from time to time for different bands and see different local acts when I can. Few if any know I play any instrument but I engage in discussion with them as I can. I hear some rather interesting stories about why they use what they use. Hi hats "blending" in the mix is a pretty common one. 1st, behind the kit you have no idea how you are blending in the mix. You are not hearing the PA well enough to make that kind of judgement. 2nd, the players most worried about it are usually the bashers. The problem is not the cymbals, its that they are bashing. Hats half open and beating them like Tyson in his prime. I can't speak to anyone else's experience but this has been mine.

Now, it is true that in a studio setting sometimes a certain pair of hats will sit right where a particular singers magic happens and a switch makes sense. You don't need to go from 14's to 17's to fix that. Just switching from New Beats to K's for example is often enough. You just need to move out of that range a bit. Depending on what you have a pair of 15's could work too.

 

[DutchDrummersDreams]

I use what I like and what works on the gig.

For studiowork I play my own well curated selection of cymbals.

And that can currently alter between 14” and 17”

Also there is a big difference between two crashes paired together, and real factory designed hat sets.

It might have worked for SJ (and even he went to factory designed pairs) but mostly it just doesn’t.

 

[Drumolator]

I used to like 13 inch hats, but later I went for 14 inch hats. I have never moved away from them. I tried two 16 inch crashes as hats but did not care for them. Peace and goodwill.