13" supra anyone?

braincramp

Gold Member
Has Ludwig ever made a prototype 13" supra? I'm pretty sure they make a 13" x 3 Black Beauty ..at least I think I saw one on ebay.. I wonder if they use the same mold/machine to spin cast the BB's as the Supra's and if so and they make a 13" BB there should be a Supra somewhere.. just wondering how it would sound.
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
Dw and George Way have thin shelled 13" aluminum snares fyi. I think they'd sound a bit more focused and enclosed than a 14. That was my observation comparing a 13x7 and 14x8 black magic.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Has Ludwig ever made a prototype 13" supra? I'm pretty sure they make a 13" x 3 Black Beauty ..at least I think I saw one on ebay.. I wonder if they use the same mold/machine to spin cast the BB's as the Supra's and if so and they make a 13" BB there should be a Supra somewhere.. just wondering how it would sound.
Just when I say that they didn't make a ludalloy supra,they did make a 3x13 piccolo steel shelled snare model 405.They do make a 3x13 BB.

As far as I know,the same machinery is used to spin a single piece of metal,into a shell.The shell is then beaded in the center,and bearing edges are formed.These drums aren't molded,or cast in any way.

There may well be a 3x13 supra out there,but it wouldn't share the same strainer/butt and lugs as the supra.One may show up at a drum show one of these days,just like 10 lug 5" acros,and 8 lug COA supras do,from time to time.Yes,they do exist

As to how it would sound...is anybody guess.

Steve B
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
EDIT - still looking at Ludwig's site. They don't show any 13" under Supraphonic, but they show a 13x3.5 Black Beauty:

This one's listed under Bronze, but it's 14"
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/usasnares_bronze.php



They also list a 13x6 Classic Maple Exotic, but those are the only 13's I see listed.

I'm not sure exactly what it is that makes up Supraphonics anyways.
Is it just the Ludalloy and lugs? If so, it seems like a 13x6 or 7 would sound pretty good.

.
 
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evilg99

Platinum Member
Just when I say that they didn't make a ludalloy supra,they did make a 3x13 piccolo steel shelled snare model 405.
Yes, I used to own this drum. It was quite unremarkable.
I sold it for three times what I paid for it.
Didn't sound anywhere near as good as a Supra.

Neal
 

BGH

Gold Member
EDIT - still looking at Ludwig's site. They don't show any 13" under Supraphonic, but they show a 13x3.5 Black Beauty:

They also list a 13x6 Classic Maple Exotic, but those are the only 13's I see listed.

I'm not sure exactly what it is that makes up Supraphonics anyways.
Is it just the Ludalloy and lugs? If so, it seems like a 13x6 or 7 would sound pretty good.

.
Then how is MF selling them if Ludwig doesn't make them? Use the link in my post #4 and go to the drop down menu on that page. It says they have 3x13 Bronze Supras in stock. Maybe they are new old stock and Ludwig discontinued them, so they are not on the Ludwig site.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Then how is MF selling them if Ludwig doesn't make them? Use the link in my post #4 and go to the drop down menu on that page. It says they have 3x13 Bronze Supras in stock. Maybe they are new old stock and Ludwig discontinued them, so they are not on the Ludwig site.
I don't know much about them. I was just looking on Ludwig's site, and they don't have anything like that listed.
And Supra and Bronze are listed as two separate lines. I'm pretty sure if it's a Supra, the shell material is Ludalloy and not bronze.

All the drums listed under Supraphonic have this in the blurb:
"... The USA-made chrome-plated, seamless, beaded aluminum shell produces a bright, crisp attack with the perfect balance of full resonant tone and snare crack. .."
 

BGH

Gold Member
I don't know much about them. I was just looking on Ludwig's site, and they don't have anything like that listed.
And Supra and Bronze are listed as two separate lines. I'm pretty sure if it's a Supra, the shell material is Ludalloy and not bronze.

Sorry, I don't get what you are saying. Are you saying that MF is selling a snare listed as Bronze, and you don't think its Bronze??? Why in the world would they do that? Why do you doubt that its 'real?' Did you look at the pic? Not that I have one in front of me, but the drum in the pic is not aluminum.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Sorry, I don't get what you are saying. Are you saying that MF is selling a snare listed as Bronze, and you don't think its Bronze???...

.
No - I'm saying it's bronze, but not a Supraphonic - according to Ludwig. The 5 drums Ludwig lists under Supraphonic all have shells made from aluminum.

But hey - what do I know - ha ha? I'm just going by what Ludwig has on their site. http://www.ludwig-drums.com/snaredrums.php
 

BGH

Gold Member
No - I'm saying it's bronze, but not a Supraphonic - according to Ludwig. The 5 drums Ludwig lists under Supraphonic all have shells made from aluminum.

But hey - what do I know? I'm just going by what Ludwig has on their site.
Oh, ok. Well, I've seen guys on here trying to define what makes a Ludwig snare a Supra. Is it the shell design, the lugs, the strainer? Supras exist with different shell composition: aluminum, brass, bronze. As far as I know, all of the 5" and 6.5" are a seamless beaded shell (the early COB Supras had a 2 piece shell?). They exist with Imperial and Tube lugs. Most have a P-83 or P-85 strainer. Do any Supras have a p-86 as a stock strainer? I think some of the limited edition ones do, but I don't think any LM 400 or 402 had p-86 as the stock strainer.

So, I don't know what the ultimate feature is that defines a Supra. Some guys say the strainer is it, but there are 3 of them. As far as the 13" Supra and BB, it seems that they are just smaller versions, share some of the features but not all of them. I'm not sure if its important as to whether the 13" can be called a Supra or not. I assume the shell is seamless, but its not beaded and has a different strainer and lug.

I guess if the point is, 'what are the 13" Bronze or BB's like?' Well, I guess if OP is interested, look for a used one to try out.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
The term "Supraphonic" stemmed from a far simpler time in drum marketing history. A time when Ludwig only offered the US made, spun, seamless, aluminium shell (I think....SteveB can you clarify?.....pretty sure there were no BB's in the early 60's), Imperial lugs and offered two types of snare mechanisms, the Super-Sensitive (P-70) and the Supraphonic (P-83). So it was easy to define, if the drum wasn't a SS it was a Supraphonic.

Add several decades, a couple of strainer upgrades, the emergence of a couple more shell materials (brass Black Beauty, COB and bronze), the addition of tube lugs and the guidelines of what exactly constitutes a Supra have become far more cloudy.

Personally, I wouldn't call a 13" bronze piccolo a "Supra" but that may just be the traditionalist in me.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I've got to say that I looked at all the snare drums listed on Ludwig's site,
and I don't see anything like the one MF has for sale in post #4.
It's not listed under Supraphonic, nor is it listed under Bronze.

I'm thinking it must either be some discontinued snare, or maybe one of those special builds that's only available at certain stores, and not listed on the manufacturer's site.

I know very little about Ludwig stuff though.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
The term "Supraphonic" stemmed from a far simpler time in drum marketing history. A time when Ludwig only offered the US made, spun, seamless, aluminium shell (I think....SteveB can you clarify?.....pretty sure there were no BB's in the early 60's), Imperial lugs and offered two types of snare mechanisms, the Super-Sensitive (P-70) and the Supraphonic (P-83). So it was easy to define, if the drum wasn't a SS it was a Supraphonic.

Add several decades, a couple of strainer upgrades, the emergence of a couple more shell materials (brass Black Beauty, COB and bronze), the addition of tube lugs and the guidelines of what exactly constitutes a Supra have become far more cloudy.

Personally, I wouldn't call a 13" bronze piccolo a "Supra" but that may just be the traditionalist in me.
Ludwig introduced the supraphonic around 63 as well as the acrolite,which used the same shell.The first prototype acros,had welded shells and a backing plate at the weld.

That design was soom rejested ,and both drums were spun from a single piece of aluminum alloy(ludalloy) of aluminum and zinc.

Till Ludwig started introducing different metal like brass and bronze,the supraphonic was aluminum only,save for a few COB "cut B/O badge" and keystone badge drums in 68 and 70.

When these other drums becoming popular in the 80,after Ludwig re introduced the BB in 77,they started calling al US made 5 and 6.5 x 14 drums(except the acrolite) surpaphonics.They even call the BB a supraphonic now.

Ludwig wasn't the only company to have an aluminum shell snare drum.Slingerland ,introduced the student model in 63,on the heels of the supra and acro.The slingy drum was welded,and not beaded.

The drum that BGH posted a link to...is NOT a supraphonic.It's the model LB553,and considered a piccolo by Ludwig,and not a supra.The pic in the advert is incorrectly lumped together with pics of a LM 402.Not nearly the same drum.

So to answer what's NOW (were talking Ludwig here) considerd a supraphonic,is any US made metal shelled snare drum,in aluminum(exceprt for the acrolite),bronze(except for the piccolo),and brass,(except for the piccolo brass and BB piccolo)

The shell must be a beaded, 5 or 6.5x14.So...no metal piccolo supras,in aluminum,brass or bronze.

Short answer....MUST be US made,MUST be spun/ beaded shell,MUST be 5 or 6.5x14(except the acrolite) =supra.

Steve B
 
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tamadrm

Platinum Member
Ludwig snares are very confusing. Is BB - Black Beauty?

If so, they list 5 Black Beauty snares.
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/usasnares_blackbeauty.php

Those are listed separately from the 5 Supraphonic snares:
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/usasnares_supraphonic.php
Yes,BB = Black Beauty.The 5 and 6.5 x14 drums are supraphonic Black Beautys,but the 3.5 x13 is a piccolo Black Beauty,not a supraphonic.

The parellel would be the Tama Starphonic line.All the drums share the same basic hardware,and come in limited...non piccolo sizes,and have different shell material.......yet,the're all Starphonics.

Steve B
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Just to add to the confusion: a while ago, I posted here about a snare I had gotten:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93544&highlight=hey+ludwig+guys
the general consensus was that it's an LM300.

Recently, I started looking more into Ludwig stuff and ran across LM300 Supraphonic several times.
Like this: https://www.google.com/#q=ludwig+lm300+supraphonic

Anyways, I guess it's another one among the many that are called Supraphonic - an entry level, steel shelled, imported student model, but a supra none the less.
Unless all the links are wrong - LOL

I'm thinking the new steel shelled Supralite line has replaced these. Also, noticed that everything listed on Ludwig's site as a Supraphonic, has an " LM " prefix.

.
 
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