The Fear Of Drum Solos

[cbphoto]

I’M SORRY BUT IT JUST PISSES ME OFF!!!!

Yes, but how do you really feel?



I lost interest in fast, chops-heavy solos when I heard The Drum Also Waltzes (parts 1 & 2) by Max Roach on the Buddy Rich tribute album. I've tried for years without success to get create the feel in those splendid solos.

 

[dcrigger]

Seriously - I get the ebb and flow of the popularity of instrumental soloing in general.... not just drum solos, but most records these days have instrumental solos cut down to a 2 (maybe 4 ) interlude (if they exist at all). This has seemed to be a steady decline since the beginning of the 80's.

But why drummers themselves seem less interested? That's more perplexing to me.

And yes, it probably stems from the lack of demand for it - we don't see many players soloing, so why work on it?

But I also suspect it is a byproduct from so many players learning from square one with kick-snare-hat time patterns being the most fundamental building block of playing the drum set. Only to later on begin to work at all on single surface hand-to-hand playing. As opposed to the other way around as the instrument has always traditionally been approached.

So many soloing concepts and ideas seems to me to come pretty directly from expanding on single surface snare drum etude playing. With the remaining concept deriving from varying and expanding on time playing.

I think it would be hard to enjoy soloing without having a foundation in both approaches.

 

[Bo Eder]

I think it's an inherent fear in band leaders to assume that as soon as you turn the drummer loose, the time goes out the window and the whole audience stops doing what it was doing. I mean, even as the drummer, I cringe when I see it happen. You got the whole place dancing to the songs and then you give it to the drummer and he starts doing stuff out of time that just alienates the party-goers and they stop dancing. Most times drum solos are just good party killers. I don't think enough drummers have studied the time keeping greats like Steve Jordan, or Benny Benjamin, or James Gadsen. All the kids do is idolize whoever plays the fastest with the most drums and it takes time to get them through that phase - so I'm not surprised band leaders pass over the drummer when it comes time for solos - the drummers job is to lay down the time for the band. I hate to say it, but that's usually the point where the time stops - the drum solo!

 

[bud7h4]

I think solos are great if the band is at least somewhat known as virtuosic. Otherwise they just seem awkward or out of place. Unless it's theatrical or something, like the guitar, bass, and drum solos during KISS shows in the 70s, where the identity of each member was a big deal.

I especially like the way highly skilled country bands give everyone in the band a solo within some of the songs. Now those are cool. Probably the only thing I like about country.

 

[WOINA]

As a completely self taught drummer (not said with pride) I also don't like soloing. I have no idea hiw to convert a paradiddle into a useful fill or series of fills across the kit. I don't know the alphabet of percussion therefore am unable to create the percussive words and phrases needed to play coherent statements that others may enjoy listening to.
So my solos look like this:



I also don't like listening to rudimental solos ie: jazzy, big band snare heavy Buddy Rich type solos.

I appreciate more rhythmic solos a la Collins/Thompson, Simon Phillips or some parts of Peart and Bozzio.

I do think if you can keep them relatively short and make sure folks are still clapping or dancing or at least interested they can work out all right and be fun and enjoyable.

 

[Hollywood Jim]

Seriously - I get the ebb and flow of the popularity of instrumental soloing in general.... not just drum solos, but most records these days have instrumental solos cut down to a 2 (maybe 4 ) interlude (if they exist at all). This has seemed to be a steady decline since the beginning of the 80's.

But why drummers themselves seem less interested? That's more perplexing to me.

And yes, it probably stems from the lack of demand for it - we don't see many players soloing, so why work on it?

But I also suspect it is a byproduct from so many players learning from square one with kick-snare-hat time patterns being the most fundamental building block of playing the drum set. Only to later on begin to work at all on single surface hand-to-hand playing. As opposed to the other way around as the instrument has always traditionally been approached.

So many soloing concepts and ideas seems to me to come pretty directly from expanding on single surface snare drum etude playing. With the remaining concept deriving from varying and expanding on time playing.

I think it would be hard to enjoy soloing without having a foundation in both approaches.

I agree.
I'm just an old school Gene Krupa type drummer. People (the audience) used to expect drum solos.

.

 

[Bo Eder]

I agree.
I'm just an old school Gene Krupa type drummer. People (the audience) used to expect drum solos.

.

I get it. But there's been at least three generations that have screwed that up since then. It's not your fault

 

[Hollywood Jim]

I think it's an inherent fear in band leaders to assume that as soon as you turn the drummer loose, the time goes out the window and the whole audience stops doing what it was doing. I mean, even as the drummer, I cringe when I see it happen. You got the whole place dancing to the songs and then you give it to the drummer and he starts doing stuff out of time that just alienates the party-goers and they stop dancing. Most times drum solos are just good party killers. I don't think enough drummers have studied the time keeping greats like Steve Jordan, or Benny Benjamin, or James Gadsen. All the kids do is idolize whoever plays the fastest with the most drums and it takes time to get them through that phase - so I'm not surprised band leaders pass over the drummer when it comes time for solos - the drummers job is to lay down the time for the band. I hate to say it, but that's usually the point where the time stops - the drum solo!

You are correct. Unfortunately you are correct. I know exactly what you are saying. I always have to assure the band leader that my solos will stay on tempo and that the crowd will love it. And to be honest If I were a band leader I would worry too if I had never heard the drummer do a solo.

Another issue is band members also worry about how and when to come back in to the song. I guess I'm just really sad to see drum soloing die. I know audiences, especially dancers, love a short on-tempo drum solo. I have seen audiences express joy and admiration after a drum solo many many times.

.

 

[Spreggy]

Every time a drum solo is mentioned say during a rehearsal or sound check, every singer in the room and most every other player wheels around and says, right on cue, "I like groove drummers! I like pocket drummers!"
Somebody famous said if you don't get a solo, it's your own fault.
I have a sorta new tradition with my new band. If you make a drum joke, I'll laugh, I'll play along, I might even tell one. But I am definitely taking a solo from you. Cost per drum joke = one solo. So what was that you were saying about delivering pizza?

 

[Spreggy]

As a completely self taught drummer (not said with pride) I also don't like soloing. I have no idea hiw to convert a paradiddle into a useful fill or series of fills across the kit. I don't know the alphabet of percussion therefore am unable to create the percussive words and phrases needed to play coherent statements that others may enjoy listening to.
So my solos look like this:

View attachment 134728

I also don't like listening to rudimental solos ie: jazzy, big band snare heavy Buddy Rich type solos.

I appreciate more rhythmic solos a la Collins/Thompson, Simon Phillips or some parts of Peart and Bozzio.

I do think if you can keep them relatively short and make sure folks are still clapping or dancing or at least interested they can work out all right and be fun and enjoyable.

lol that gif is the greatest. You're right though, a solo can lift it all by spicing up the beat with some shizz. Get in, get out, get laid. (the last is implied, cuz, you know, you're a drummer)

 

[Bo Eder]

You are correct. Unfortunately you are correct. I know exactly what you are saying. I always have to assure the band leader that my solos will stay on tempo and that the crowd will love it. And to be honest If I were a band leader I would worry too if I had never heard the drummer do a solo.

Another issue is band members also worry about how and when to come back in to the song. I guess I'm just really sad to see drum soloing die. I know audiences, especially dancers, love a short on-tempo drum solo. I have seen audiences express joy and admiration after a drum solo many many times.

.

Me too - I love a good short in-tempo drum solo too, but it is more rarity than standard since every new player is concerned about how fast they can make their double basses go rather than play the music at hand (and maybe it's always been this way). But truly, Gene may have been the first and last guy that could carry an audience with only EIGHTH NOTES!

 

[doggyd69b]

I don't play solos. Yeah... I do a few pre-choreographed 16th note rolls across the toms, but nothing that could really qualify as a "solo". In general, I'm a "no solo" kinda guy. Here's why: I suck.

I've been playing in various local bands since the early 80's and love it. I have impeccable timing. I can closely replicate most rock songs and I am the best "team player" a band could ever hope for. But.... Aside from a few basic rudiments, there's not a whole lot of interesting stuff I can do on my own. I can't even play a paradiddle, a ratamacue or even a decent double stroke roll. Seriously.

That's why I don't do solos. I'm an entertainer, paid to put on a good show. Me doing a solo would not show respect to the people who paid to see my band and me perform.

For the past couple years I've been playing in a 2-drummer band. As luck would have it, the other drummer has spectacular chops, loves fancy fills and is a good guy to work with. He struggles with shuffle beats and 16th note hi-hat disco beat; both of which I'm actually pretty good at. We plan each song to showcase both of our strengths and none of our weaknesses. Most of the time, I lay down the groove and he adds the "spice".

Does he like solos? Nope. Although he certainly has the chops to perform a great solo, he'd kind of a shy dude and is not comfortable in the spotlight.

I have done solos but 45 sec to a minute is more than enough even if you are Neil Peary or Mario Duplantier. Anything longer is just really boring.

 

[doggyd69b]

Wipe out, the Mustang Sally of drum solos.

To me (my opinion) is that a solo should be tastefully added to a song that normally doesn’t have it like somewhere in the middle, a couple of bars, then back to the song and finish, none of that 16 min showboating crap.

 

[doggyd69b]

I gig as a bassist and woodwind player, but am at best, an incompetent hobby drummer. I won't even consider the term "percussionist" as remotely applicable. Bassists can run into the same issues with solos, often relating to the whole band dropping off and looking bored for X bars. Some have no interest trying to figure out how to make it work. I've lucked out in performing with some phenomenal drummers who would create an accommodating musical space for a bass solo, going back and forth between who was holding ground and who was taking point. Part of the drum solos were the bass hitting accents or marking time without interfering and vice versa. We sometimes worked out stuff together ahead of time that held solidly of its own accord without the rest of the band. A solo is not necessarily about unrivaled virtuosity.

This is an example, although they do the solos as the band introduction during a song in the midd of their set:

 

[Hollywood Jim]

Me too - I love a good short in-tempo drum solo too, but it is more rarity than standard since every new player is concerned about how fast they can make their double basses go rather than play the music at hand (and maybe it's always been this way). But truly, Gene may have been the first and last guy that could carry an audience with only EIGHTH NOTES!

Yep. The secret is, it's all in the accents.

.

 

[Larry]

I'd rather see a shift from standalone solos, to a trading fours or eights situation.

Give the drummer some conversation time. I dig that. That shows respect.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

I do not enjoy playing solos. I can if the song calls for it, but will generally take as little time as possible, unless I am reading the crowd and they like it

the funny thing is that I grew up drooling over the "usual crew" from the late 70's / early 80's playing solos.

what pisses me off is the assumption by many other musicians that no one likes drum solos. Many of the non-drummer musician assumptions piss me off:
drums should be seen and not heard;
should always be set up in the middle of the stage;
the smallest amount of drums on the stage is the best amount
that we are OK with playing the house kit, or headliners kit

these assumptions become culture. And that is not always right....

 

[doggyd69b]

I do not enjoy playing solos. I can if the song calls for it, but will generally take as little time as possible, unless I am reading the crowd and they like it

the funny thing is that I grew up drooling over the "usual crew" from the late 70's / early 80's playing solos.

what pisses me off is the assumption by many other musicians that no one likes drum solos. Many of the non-drummer musician assumptions piss me off:
drums should be seen and not heard;
should always be set up in the middle of the stage;
the smallest amount of drums on the stage is the best amount
that we are OK with playing the house kit, or headliners kit

these assumptions become culture. And that is not always right....

They are not assumptions if they are being actively done to a drummer...
I usually let my drumming speak for me but I have hit (very hard) the singer's hand for bashing my cymbals with his hand or microphone) I have had cymbals damaged because they would just use a closed fist and smash the cymbal so hard the stand falls, so I put up with it then pretend I was meant to hit the cymbal getting the hand across all his fingers at very high speed. I be surprised if he doesn't get the message that putting his hands in the "danger zone" is never a good thing. Same for people putting their foot on my bass drum, or even worse standing on my bass drum and jumping from it. That will usually earn them a very hard stick to the head because they have been told to not do that before the show and they "forget" because they are way "into it". I forget that their head is not a drum...
Drums should be heard not seen... Drum risers.
The smallest amount of stage space... I don't ever let a guitarist or any other member of the band bully me for space, but I also don't take a huge kit to a gig.
That we are ok playing the house kit.... Maybe. One time the heads were so beat up there was no way that kit could sound good, the other time the kit was a very high end DW and I guess to this day the best kit I have ever played... so "Life Is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

They are not assumptions if they are being actively done to a drummer...
I usually let my drumming speak for me but I have hit (very hard) the singer's hand for bashing my cymbals with his hand or microphone) I have had cymbals damaged because they would just use a closed fist and smash the cymbal so hard the stand falls, so I put up with it then pretend I was meant to hit the cymbal getting the hand across all his fingers at very high speed. I be surprised if he doesn't get the message that putting his hands in the "danger zone" is never a good thing. Same for people putting their foot on my bass drum, or even worse standing on my bass drum and jumping from it. That will usually earn them a very hard stick to the head because they have been told to not do that before the show and they "forget" because they are way "into it". I forget that their head is not a drum...
Drums should be heard not seen... Drum risers.
The smallest amount of stage space... I don't ever let a guitarist or any other member of the band bully me for space, but I also don't take a huge kit to a gig.
That we are ok playing the house kit.... Maybe. One time the heads were so beat up there was no way that kit could sound good, the other time the kit was a very high end DW and I guess to this day the best kit I have ever played... so "Life Is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

oh man...the standing on the bass drum thing...I have a story

so I got my Pearl Master Custom Maples new back in 94. My first high end kit. I had it for about a week, and then we played a show. First time using it live. We were playing with a band I knew of - and I knew they were "punk" - so I told the drummer just tell his mates that the kit is new, and to not swing mic stands and crap around it.

so 4th song in, the lead singer - who was ALWAYS high and drunk - gets up on the bass drum. I ran right to the stage and made them stop mid song, and told him no f-ing way. The other guys in the band were very apologetic, and sort of bashed him on stage for doing it. They finished the set with no other issues.

3 weeks later, that singer guy got a long prison term for hurting his girlfriend pretty badly while - of course - drunk and high. Karma

 

[doggyd69b]

oh man...the standing on the bass drum thing...I have a story

so I got my Pearl Master Custom Maples new back in 94. My first high end kit. I had it for about a week, and then we played a show. First time using it live. We were playing with a band I knew of - and I knew they were "punk" - so I told the drummer just tell his mates that the kit is new, and to not swing mic stands and crap around it.

so 4th song in, the lead singer - who was ALWAYS high and drunk - gets up on the bass drum. I ran right to the stage and made them stop mid song, and told him no f-ing way. The other guys in the band were very apologetic, and sort of bashed him on stage for doing it. They finished the set with no other issues.

3 weeks later, that singer guy got a long prison term for hurting his girlfriend pretty badly while - of course - drunk and high. Karma

Sorry to hear about the girlfriend, that guy got what he deserved (I can't stand cowards who abuse those weaker than them).
I am glad your drums didn't get hurt.