Used Ludwig CM or used Renown?

I'm a nobody; a bar-band drummer with mediocre skills. Take my advice with a grain of salt. I have owned a number of professional-level kits.

Gretsch Renown
Yamaha Recording Custom
Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute
Tama Artstar Custom
Pearl Masters
Tama B/B

You're not gonna like what I have to say.

They are all great drums, but they don't really sound THAT great. No drum series completely blows away the others. They're all just OK; that is they all sound exactly as they're supposed to. In the end, I sold off everything except the Pearls. Why the Pearls? Because I liked the Pearl hardware, rims and mounting systems better than the others.

Yeah... It's kind of a dumb reason to select one series of drums over the others, but to me it made a difference. For example... The Gretsch Renown looked and sounded great but... I really struggled to get the floor tom into the case given the design of the leg mounts. Also, the floor tom leg mounts were always just a little too short for me. Annoying.
 
...... but they are probably 98% alike.

That brings me back to my previous advice - buy the one you like best. ☺️ Let all those little non-scientific factors play in the decision and go with your gut. That's what I did.
I'd probably get the Ludwig, because I like the looks of the tom mounting system better than the Gretsch.;)
 
I have owned a Ludwig CM and a Gretsch Brooklyn and they are excellent drums. (The Renowns are in the Brooklyn ballpark.) I preferred the Brooklyns at first, but I kept getting drawn back to the Classic Maples. One reason was that the CMs are lighter and I hate carrying any extra weight when I’m gigging.

Other than that, the differences were absolutely tiny. After weight, I’d look at finish and mounting options to make my final decision.
 
I think CM's will hold they value more than Renown.
I'm a nobody; a bar-band drummer with mediocre skills. Take my advice with a grain of salt. I have owned a number of professional-level kits.

Gretsch Renown
Yamaha Recording Custom
Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute
Tama Artstar Custom
Pearl Masters
Tama B/B

You're not gonna like what I have to say.

They are all great drums, but they don't really sound THAT great. No drum series completely blows away the others. They're all just OK; that is they all sound exactly as they're supposed to. In the end, I sold off everything except the Pearls. Why the Pearls? Because I liked the Pearl hardware, rims and mounting systems better than the others.

Yeah... It's kind of a dumb reason to select one series of drums over the others, but to me it made a difference. For example... The Gretsch Renown looked and sounded great but... I really struggled to get the floor tom into the case given the design of the leg mounts. Also, the floor tom leg mounts were always just a little too short for me. Annoying.
Practical advice. Reason I don't own Renown is weight plus the leg mounts. Same with INDe I didn't get along with their hardware; too fiddley for me. Other have no issues with INDe hardware but I did. Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I like simple. One wing nut.
 
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I have owned a Ludwig CM and a Gretsch Brooklyn and they are excellent drums. (The Renowns are in the Brooklyn ballpark.) I preferred the Brooklyns at first, but I kept getting drawn back to the Classic Maples. One reason was that the CMs are lighter and I hate carrying any extra weight when I’m gigging.

Other than that, the differences were absolutely tiny. After weight, I’d look at finish and mounting options to make my final decision.
More good practical advice.
 
One reason was that the CMs are lighter and I hate carrying any extra weight when I’m gigging.

Other than that, the differences were absolutely tiny. After weight, I’d look at finish and mounting options to make my final decision.
This is a really good point that I wasn’t even considering. I have a Renown (although it’s a Purewood Mahogany Renown) and they weigh a ton. Much more than my 70s Ludwig 3-ply. Not comparing apples to apples exactly with the kits you’re considering, but I’m sure it’s the same principle. If you don’t wanna haul around such a heavy kit, go with the CM.
 
I’m an authentic guy. If given the choice I always lean towards the real Gretsch or Ludwig. Ludwig Classic maples are the real. I consider Gretsch USA Customs to be the real Gretsch, and Yamaha Revording Customs, Tama Starclassic,….those are their representative lines. I don’t think “real” Gretsch when you say “Renown”, just as Paiste PST or Zildjian ZBT aren’t real, either.

Everyone is right that either one will sound great, so that’s up to you, but one is real and one is not.
I am SO with you on this Bo. I've got a horrible mindset on this very thing. There's this guy on YouTube (Gary's guitars) that explained things in his (a brief talk about made in mexico guitars) that changed my view that filters over into drumworld. If you ever get a minute. 😃.
 
Well now look.... sometimes you want a Gretsch that sounds like a Pearl..but looks like a Gretsch..
That's what the Gretsch Full Range snare line up is about right? Right?

And seriously I might want a Full Range Gretsch snare that looks a Gretsch but sounds like could be eh... Tama-ish Pearl-ish....non-committal-ish....
 
I think CM's will hold they value more than Renown.

Practical advice. Reason I don't own Renown is weight plus the leg mounts. Same with INDe I didn't get along with their hardware; too fiddley for me. Other have no issues with INDe hardware but I did. Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I like simple. One wing nut.

Yep. When you have a pile of pro-level drums and you need to weed down your pile fast (in my case due to a move), you find ways. In my case, a perfectly good drum set would have one minor annoyance that would send to to the "bone yard". It might be an ugly color, wonky hardware or an odd size. In my case, it was ALWAYS something, trivial, stupid and minor. But... I had to unload some drums and sometimes trivial criteria was the deciding factor.

Here are some minor, trivial, BS criteria that caused me to ditch drums:

- The 16x24 bass drum of the Tama Artstar was just too hard to fit in the back seat of my Honda Accord.
- I never liked the 2-point nodal tom mounting apparatus on the Yamaha drums. It always seemed weak and wobbly.
 
I’m an authentic guy. If given the choice I always lean towards the real Gretsch or Ludwig. Ludwig Classic maples are the real. I consider Gretsch USA Customs to be the real Gretsch, and Yamaha Revording Customs, Tama Starclassic,….those are their representative lines. I don’t think “real” Gretsch when you say “Renown”, just as Paiste PST or Zildjian ZBT aren’t real, either.

Everyone is right that either one will sound great, so that’s up to you, but one is real and one is not.
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I feel like Gretsch Renowns (w/ die cast hoops) are built close enough to the USA Custom line that they should sound close to identical. Plus, they look almost exactly the same except for the badges. That's enough assurance for me personally that I'm getting a real Gretsch. I can't think of any other manufacturer that has an overseas-made kit that comes as close in quality to their USA-made lineup.

The Gretsch Renown is ALMOST a modern day Acrolite situation. I can't say it is because I don't know of anyone who likes the Renown better than the USA Custom taking out the price factor.
 
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I feel like Gretsch Renowns (w/ die cast hoops) are built close enough to the USA Custom line that they should sound close to identical. Plus, they look almost exactly the same except for the badges. That's enough assurance for me personally that I'm getting a real Gretsch. I can't think of any other manufacturer that has an overseas-made kit that comes as close in quality to their USA-made lineup.

The Gretsch Renown is ALMOST a modern day Acrolite situation. I can't say it is because I don't know of anyone who likes the Renown better than the USA Custom taking out the price factor.
That’s fine. I’m not against people playing what they want. I’m just saying, there’s a reason there are Gretsch USA Customs and Ludwig Classic Maples, and DW Collectors, etc.,….and regardless of what we’d like to believe, those are the representative lines of those companies. That’s what everyone would like, but due to price, they can’t get it.
 
You're not gonna like what I have to say.

They are all great drums, but they don't really sound THAT great. No drum series completely blows away the others. They're all just OK; that is they all sound exactly as they're supposed to. In the end, I sold off everything except the Pearls. Why the Pearls? Because I liked the Pearl hardware, rims and mounting systems better than the others.
Hardware and trim are actually great reasons to select or de-select whatever model of drums you want! Speaking also as a bar band weekend warrior drummer, when you have to shlep, setup, and maintain all of your own gear, everything matters - including the hardware. I've literally gotten rid of drum kits because I could not stand the tom mounts.

My .02 with Renowns (RN-2's, the newer version) is they are heavy, visually beautiful, and sound like a maple kit should. From my experience I would also suggest checking the bearing edges and drum roundness.
 
Whilst I'm intrigued by the Renowns, I've had a good ol' USofA made Ludwig for a long time now and looks wise they have that wow factor on stage to the non-drummer. If I have to do any promo stuff the Ludwig comes out.

If anything goes wrong with a Ludwig it's very easy to get replacement parts too.

I suppose ultimately it comes down to what the seller is asking for used and what condition the drums are in. Either way you're getting a very good set of drums.
 
That’s fine. I’m not against people playing what they want. I’m just saying, there’s a reason there are Gretsch USA Customs and Ludwig Classic Maples, and DW Collectors, etc.,….and regardless of what we’d like to believe, those are the representative lines of those companies. That’s what everyone would like, but due to price, they can’t get it.
Exactly. I always look for bargains on Ludwig CM, Ludwig vintage kits, or Gretsch Brooklyn/ Gretsch vintage. Same with Slingerland and Rogers vintage kits. Grew up with those brands in 60's & 70's. I look for vintage Premier, too, for same reasons. Plus their American made or in the case of Premier England made. But due to price the Asian-made are what I seem to end up with the most. Like my current Tama Superstar kit for gigs. I have a Natal Cafe Racer kit arriving this week for practice and rehearsals so I don't need to break down the Tama for gigs. I've had a few CM kits in last several years I sold for financial reasons. A Ludwig Club Date because I didn't like the sound. Had a Premier vintage set I resold for $$$. And yeah a bunch of other kits I have bought and sold. Like I said in another thread I don't hunt rabbits squirrels or ducks I hunt drums lol. That price differential is, metaphorically, like difference between hunting rabbits in a field near my house (Asian drum kit) vs big-game safari hunting in Africa (Ludwig CM or Gretsch Brooklyn). I suppose people who do hunt fantasize about hunting in Africa (which btw I personally find abhorrent) just like I lust after more expensive made in USA drum kits. And I lust after RFM Canopus and Sonor German-made, too. It's the price that keeps me coming back to Tama Superstar and comparable models. And I'm still kicking myself for not buying a Canopus Yaiba bop kit last year when they were $1,600. I could have stretched a bit $$$dollar-wise and had an amazing made in Japan kit. I didn't. Bad decision on my part.
 
Hardware and trim are actually great reasons to select or de-select whatever model of drums you want! Speaking also as a bar band weekend warrior drummer, when you have to shlep, setup, and maintain all of your own gear, everything matters - including the hardware. I've literally gotten rid of drum kits because I could not stand the tom mounts.

My .02 with Renowns (RN-2's, the newer version) is they are heavy, visually beautiful, and sound like a maple kit should. From my experience I would also suggest checking the bearing edges and drum roundness.

Another suggestion - for price of a new Renown you can buy a used CM.
 
What’s the pros of the CMs? Seriously. I think they sound fantastic, but what drew you to it vs the others?

I've played 3 different sets of Renowns, and they all sounded fantastic. With that said, CM's have that "Ludwig wallop" that I don't hear in other kits, and I've played many others. There's just nothing like it, just like there's nothing like a Ludwig 3-ply kit either (I have one of those too).

I didn't really think much about a WMP kit until I bought mine. When I first saw those big, shiny Ludwig classic lugs up against that white pearl, I fell in love with it. It looks great during the day outside, and it looks great under stage lights too. Here are a few pics of mine.

242252196_4878006115561044_3528798235747136685_n.jpg258876499_5095505203811133_8853322184526823347_n.jpg302358943_512798504180433_6625385480917647691_n.jpg
 
I've played 3 different sets of Renowns, and they all sounded fantastic. With that said, CM's have that "Ludwig wallop" that I don't hear in other kits, and I've played many others. There's just nothing like it, just like there's nothing like a Ludwig 3-ply kit either (I have one of those too).

I didn't really think much about a WMP kit until I bought mine. When I first saw those big, shiny Ludwig classic lugs up against that white pearl, I fell in love with it. It looks great during the day outside, and it looks great under stage lights too. Here are a few pics of mine.

View attachment 130219View attachment 130220View attachment 130221
Awesome pics!
 
These CM kits are at excellent prices. One new one used. I'd buy before I'd buy Renown:
Ludwig CM
Ludwig CM Used

Or this beautiful Gretsch Brooklyn. Grab this instead of a Renown:
Gretsch Brooklyn

Point being for price of a new Renown you can get a Ludwig CM if you look closely and take a week or 2. Even the occasional Gretsch Brooklyn. And the CM is just a better kit.
 
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I feel like Gretsch Renowns (w/ die cast hoops) are built close enough to the USA Custom line that they should sound close to identical. Plus, they look almost exactly the same except for the badges. That's enough assurance for me personally that I'm getting a real Gretsch. I can't think of any other manufacturer that has an overseas-made kit that comes as close in quality to their USA-made lineup.

The Gretsch Renown is ALMOST a modern day Acrolite situation. I can't say it is because I don't know of anyone who likes the Renown better than the USA Custom taking out the price factor.
The DW Design Series is virtually identical in quality to the USA made kits. The biggest difference is the smaller lugs which are the smallest DW offers. Pretty much everything else stays the same compared to the USA made Performance Series; NA Maple shells, graduated hoops, True-Pitch tension rods etc. They are seriously good drums.

I'm with everyone else in that all things being equal, if you can get a new or used 'pro' level kit like a Classic Maple or USA Custom for the same price as a Renown (new or used) then by all means do it. The difference won't be that big and if it makes you feel better for any reason than that is reason enough to do it.

If you do have to 'settle' for a Renown, don't feel bad about it in any way. They are wonderfully built, they sound glorious and they're better made than the average 'pro' kit was 20-30 years ago. There is nothing inferior about them.
 
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