INDe Drum Nerd Lab

s1212z

Silver Member
Every company has a drum making philosophy, it makes the drum making world interesting. INDe drum made a video sort of addressing the online discussion platform on miss-informed notions. If you go to their about page, they make very clear they are not about banking on product legacy, price points or conventional thinking.

I never owned their drums, but their concepts seem to have been given thought and obvious a wink they don't agree with DW or the legacy builders like Ludwig. But stuff like stiffness, elasticity, low mass make total sense to gear I like to acquire as well. Their videos sound good too which is the bottom line and they have been marketed pretty affordably. To get a US made all maple bop kit with this kind of R&D under $1500 is pretty unheard of. Thoughts?



From their page:

WE ALL HAVE PRECONCEIVED IDEAS ABOUT WHAT MAKES A SHELL SOUND A CERTAIN WAY, OFTEN DEVELOPED BY READING MARKETING BLURBS, AND ONLINE DISCUSSIONS. AND MOST OF IT IS WRONG. THE EASY WAY TO MARKET A DRUM DESIGN IS TO FOCUS ON THE WOOD SPECIES, NUMBER OF PLIES, AND BEARING EDGE ANGLES- ALL OF THESE ARE THE WRONG DETAILS TO CONSIDER. THE WAY YOU BUILD A SHELL (PLY THICKNESS, GRAIN ORIENTATION, GLUE TYPE) ALL INFLUENCE THE SOUND OF A DRUM FAR MORE THAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WOOD SPECIES. WHEN YOU DESIGN A SHELL, YOU ARE REALLY TRYING TO MANIPULATE 3 PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES THAT DEFINE THE SOUND:

1. STIFFNESS: THIS DEFINES THE PITCH OF THE SHELL- STIFFER IS HIGHER PITCHED, MORE FLEXIBLE IS LOWER PITCHED. THIS IS DIRECTIONAL, SO STIFFNESS PARALLEL TO THE AXIS OF THE DRUM EFFECTS THE DRUM DIFFERENTLY THAN AROUND IT'S CIRCUMFERENCE

2. ELASTICITY: THIS DETERMINES HOW VIBRATIONAL ENERGY SUSTAINS IN THE SHELL- A HIGHLY ELASTIC SHELL SUSTAINS LONGER, A SHELL WITH LOWER ELASTICITY CONVERTS ENERGY (TO HEAT) MORE QUICKLY, PROVIDING SHORTER DECAY, AND SOUNDING MORE "DEAD".

3. MASS: THE MASS OF THE SHELL AFFECTS HOW SENSITIVE THE SHELL IS TO VIBRATIONAL ENERGY. A LIGHTER SHELL REACTS EASILY TO THE VIBRATION OF THE HEAD, A HEAVIER SHELL REQUIRES MORE ENERGY TO EXCITE, REDUCING THEIR RESPONSIVENESS.

Different wood certainly have different traits, but the differences are very small compared to the effect of changing thickness or grain orientation. A 1mm thick piece of maple will have very different physical properties than a 2mm piece, but compared to a 1mm thick piece of birch, or even mahogany, it will be very similar.

We currently only offer ONE wooden shell design. And it kicks ass. It does exactly what we set out to do- offering incredible responsiveness and versatility. We didn’t get it right the first time, or the second. It took a while to figure out how to do it. But the result is consistently great.

Here are couple of the important things we learned:


1. LOW MASS IS THE KEY TO VERSATILITY. SINCE HEAVY SHELLS TAKE MORE ENERGY TO RESONATE, THEY CAN EITHER ABSORB A LOT OF ENERGY AND SOUND VERY CONTROLLED AND THUDDY, OR KEEP THE ENERGY IN THE HEAD AND SOUND VERY OPEN AND BRIGHT, BASED ON SHELL AND EDGE DESIGNS. A LOW MASS SHELL TAKES MUCH LESS ENERGY TO VIBRATE, SO YOU CAN LET THE HEADS AND SHELLS RESONATE TOGETHER WITHOUT KILLING THE SUSTAIN. THEY CAN DO EVERYTHING WELL, AND LET YOU DECIDE HOW YOU WANT THEM TO SOUND WITH HEAD CHOICE AND TUNING.

2. STIFFNESS IS DIRECTIONAL. YOU WANT DRUM SHELLS TO VIBRATE ALONG THE LENGTH OF THE SHELL- KEEPING IT MORE FLEXIBLE ALONG THE LENGTH GIVES A LOWER PITCH, AND ALLOWS IT TO VIBRATE WITH LESS ENERGY, YET YOU NEED THE SHELL TO BE STRONG ENOUGH AROUND IT’S CIRCUMFERENCE TO SUPPORT HEAD TENSION. YOU KNOW THAT “TAP TEST” THAT EVERYBODY DOES TO SHOW A SHELLS TONE? YEAH, THAT ONLY TESTS THE STIFFNESS AROUND THE CIRCUMFERENCE, WHICH IS NOT THE WAY SHELLS VIBRATE IN THE CONTEXT OF A DRUM.

So these learnings helped us come up with our shell design. We were looking for Low Mass, High Elasticity, with a stiff circumference and axial flexibility. Therefore, we use 3 thick horizontal plies. This gives us the circumferential stiffness we need. In order to keep the shell strong, we use 2 thin vertical plies, just enough to keep the shell structurally sound. This combo lets us keep the shells ultra-light, with flex in the right directions.
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FYI, Josh used to be a legacy builder at Ludwig ;). Not familiar with his drums on a personal level, but I like light gear and low prices/high quality, and from all accounts, that’s what you get.
 
I dig his outside-the-box thinking. To me, DW is the Nike of drums: Everybody wants to either own one or be endorsed by them.
Those of us who don't go that way tend to go towards gear like INDe. We don't want trends, we want what pleases the ear.
If this company can do that, they'll get customers. Hopefully more than they can handle. ;)
 
FYI, Josh used to be a legacy builder at Ludwig ;). Not familiar with his drums on a personal level, but I like light gear and low prices/high quality, and from all accounts, that’s what you get.
I forgot Ludwig did mallet percussion through the Musser division, I assumed that was the marimba reference in the video.

I’m sure Ludwig is not offended, they do very well marketing their history and they sound great. And of course an independent won’t have that, there is a marketing on the innovative side to promote, hence the videos.
 
I forgot Ludwig did mallet percussion through the Musser division, I assumed that was the marimba reference in the video.

I’m sure Ludwig is not offended, they do very well marketing their history and they sound great. And of course an independent won’t have that, there is a marketing on the innovative side to promote, hence the videos.
I think the only one who might get offended at those vids are at DW ;). Nevertheless, I like what I hear out of all of them.
 
Finally, an honest drum company that tells the truth about the influence wood type has on a ply drum’s tone. Too many drummers buy into manufacturer hype.
 
iNDE makes a great strainer! I have one of their snares (6.5”x14” aluminum w/ 8 lugs) and it’s a nice drum that is also my lightest snare.
 
iNDE makes a great strainer! I have one of their snares (6.5”x14” aluminum w/ 8 lugs) and it’s a nice drum that is also my lightest snare.
Agreed and I like a lot their lug and they do good marketing, they keep it for themselves, I wanted their lugs on my summit and I couldn't but I wanted also one of their snare and I was super lucky to get one Single ply steam bent Cherry made by Summit and finished, bearing edge etc by INDé!!
I really like their drum kit and they are very affordable for that kind of quality. My issue isv if I want to by discreet about buying a new drum need I think O be in the kind of blue so, I could put it in place of my actual blue warp Tama 1973. But I like the real wood too....
Anyway, as I said, try their snare, they are very good, the aluminium and bronze are on my options for the rest of my snare collection.
 
Had an INDe set. Got rid of it. Have two DW sets now. Don’t plan on getting rid of them. Guess I’m gullible and like Nike(?🤣). Just one man’s opinion here, but I’d like to see a little less “debunking” from INDe. Let the product speak for itself.
 
Had an INDe set. Got rid of it. Have two DW sets now. Don’t plan on getting rid of them. Guess I’m gullible and like Nike(?🤣). Just one man’s opinion here, but I’d like to see a little less “debunking” from INDe. Let the product speak for itself.
What did you like and dislike about INDe? What do you like and dislike about your DW drums?
 
What did you like and dislike about INDe? What do you like and dislike about your DW drums?

I liked most everything about the INDe set. I found the bass drum spurs awkward to operate, but I'm admittedly all thumbs most of the time so no doubt user error there. There was a finish issue on one of the drums that was not resolved to my satisfaction and was ultimately my motivation for parting with the set. The sound was great and the light weight of the drums was certainly a bonus.

I'm relatively new to the DW ownership game after 30+ years of a outsider love/hate thing with them. I've been quite pleased with the sound, all the hardware is easy for me to operate and is solid, and the finish is impeccable on all my drums. I've always been a fan of the large turret lugs, going back to G. Way and Camco, so I find my DW drums particularly pleasing aesthetically. So far, I haven't found anything about the DW drums that I dislike. I'm not especially fond of the unicorn tears and wood whispering marketing strategies, but that had zero influence on my decision to buy and play my drums.
 
I liked most everything about the INDe set. I found the bass drum spurs awkward to operate, but I'm admittedly all thumbs most of the time so no doubt user error there. There was a finish issue on one of the drums that was not resolved to my satisfaction and was ultimately my motivation for parting with the set. The sound was great and the light weight of the drums was certainly a bonus.

I'm relatively new to the DW ownership game after 30+ years of a outsider love/hate thing with them. I've been quite pleased with the sound, all the hardware is easy for me to operate and is solid, and the finish is impeccable on all my drums. I've always been a fan of the large turret lugs, going back to G. Way and Camco, so I find my DW drums particularly pleasing aesthetically. So far, I haven't found anything about the DW drums that I dislike. I'm not especially fond of the unicorn tears and wood whispering marketing strategies, but that had zero influence on my decision to buy and play my drums.
Thank you very much for your insights and experiences.
 
I choose drums using my ears and my eyes. It doesn't really matter to me how they're marketed - they need to have the sound and look I'm after. Coincidentally, my DWs fit that bill, perfectly. I wasn't particularly influenced by the marketing.

I have an INDe strainer on one of my Ludwig snares and it is a great strainer. I have no doubt that their kits are similarly well made.
 
In defense to DW, they took the grain orientation experiments to a new level. Or at least they are more transparent with it and market for it. And they were a house of maple only for a very long time.

I would not consider bearing edge or wood species irrelevant, just over-marketed as mentioned. When you look at the extremes like round-overs vs sharp 45, it not only sounds different but plays different. The extreme dense hardwoods versus something like poplar are quite different are immediately apparent. It's just that species like birch, ash, beech, maple, cherry...they are far more subtle than marketed.
 
Every company has a drum making philosophy, it makes the drum making world interesting. INDe drum made a video sort of addressing the online discussion platform on miss-informed notions. If you go to their about page, they make very clear they are not about banking on product legacy, price points or conventional thinking.

I never owned their drums, but their concepts seem to have been given thought and obvious a wink they don't agree with DW or the legacy builders like Ludwig. But stuff like stiffness, elasticity, low mass make total sense to gear I like to acquire as well. Their videos sound good too which is the bottom line and they have been marketed pretty affordably. To get a US made all maple bop kit with this kind of R&D under $1500 is pretty unheard of. Thoughts?



From their page:

WE ALL HAVE PRECONCEIVED IDEAS ABOUT WHAT MAKES A SHELL SOUND A CERTAIN WAY, OFTEN DEVELOPED BY READING MARKETING BLURBS, AND ONLINE DISCUSSIONS. AND MOST OF IT IS WRONG. THE EASY WAY TO MARKET A DRUM DESIGN IS TO FOCUS ON THE WOOD SPECIES, NUMBER OF PLIES, AND BEARING EDGE ANGLES- ALL OF THESE ARE THE WRONG DETAILS TO CONSIDER. THE WAY YOU BUILD A SHELL (PLY THICKNESS, GRAIN ORIENTATION, GLUE TYPE) ALL INFLUENCE THE SOUND OF A DRUM FAR MORE THAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WOOD SPECIES. WHEN YOU DESIGN A SHELL, YOU ARE REALLY TRYING TO MANIPULATE 3 PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES THAT DEFINE THE SOUND:

1. STIFFNESS: THIS DEFINES THE PITCH OF THE SHELL- STIFFER IS HIGHER PITCHED, MORE FLEXIBLE IS LOWER PITCHED. THIS IS DIRECTIONAL, SO STIFFNESS PARALLEL TO THE AXIS OF THE DRUM EFFECTS THE DRUM DIFFERENTLY THAN AROUND IT'S CIRCUMFERENCE

2. ELASTICITY: THIS DETERMINES HOW VIBRATIONAL ENERGY SUSTAINS IN THE SHELL- A HIGHLY ELASTIC SHELL SUSTAINS LONGER, A SHELL WITH LOWER ELASTICITY CONVERTS ENERGY (TO HEAT) MORE QUICKLY, PROVIDING SHORTER DECAY, AND SOUNDING MORE "DEAD".

3. MASS: THE MASS OF THE SHELL AFFECTS HOW SENSITIVE THE SHELL IS TO VIBRATIONAL ENERGY. A LIGHTER SHELL REACTS EASILY TO THE VIBRATION OF THE HEAD, A HEAVIER SHELL REQUIRES MORE ENERGY TO EXCITE, REDUCING THEIR RESPONSIVENESS.

Different wood certainly have different traits, but the differences are very small compared to the effect of changing thickness or grain orientation. A 1mm thick piece of maple will have very different physical properties than a 2mm piece, but compared to a 1mm thick piece of birch, or even mahogany, it will be very similar.

We currently only offer ONE wooden shell design. And it kicks ass. It does exactly what we set out to do- offering incredible responsiveness and versatility. We didn’t get it right the first time, or the second. It took a while to figure out how to do it. But the result is consistently great.

Here are couple of the important things we learned:


1. LOW MASS IS THE KEY TO VERSATILITY. SINCE HEAVY SHELLS TAKE MORE ENERGY TO RESONATE, THEY CAN EITHER ABSORB A LOT OF ENERGY AND SOUND VERY CONTROLLED AND THUDDY, OR KEEP THE ENERGY IN THE HEAD AND SOUND VERY OPEN AND BRIGHT, BASED ON SHELL AND EDGE DESIGNS. A LOW MASS SHELL TAKES MUCH LESS ENERGY TO VIBRATE, SO YOU CAN LET THE HEADS AND SHELLS RESONATE TOGETHER WITHOUT KILLING THE SUSTAIN. THEY CAN DO EVERYTHING WELL, AND LET YOU DECIDE HOW YOU WANT THEM TO SOUND WITH HEAD CHOICE AND TUNING.

2. STIFFNESS IS DIRECTIONAL. YOU WANT DRUM SHELLS TO VIBRATE ALONG THE LENGTH OF THE SHELL- KEEPING IT MORE FLEXIBLE ALONG THE LENGTH GIVES A LOWER PITCH, AND ALLOWS IT TO VIBRATE WITH LESS ENERGY, YET YOU NEED THE SHELL TO BE STRONG ENOUGH AROUND IT’S CIRCUMFERENCE TO SUPPORT HEAD TENSION. YOU KNOW THAT “TAP TEST” THAT EVERYBODY DOES TO SHOW A SHELLS TONE? YEAH, THAT ONLY TESTS THE STIFFNESS AROUND THE CIRCUMFERENCE, WHICH IS NOT THE WAY SHELLS VIBRATE IN THE CONTEXT OF A DRUM.

So these learnings helped us come up with our shell design. We were looking for Low Mass, High Elasticity, with a stiff circumference and axial flexibility. Therefore, we use 3 thick horizontal plies. This gives us the circumferential stiffness we need. In order to keep the shell strong, we use 2 thin vertical plies, just enough to keep the shell structurally sound. This combo lets us keep the shells ultra-light, with flex in the right directions.
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Yep I couldn’t agree more with stiffness, elasticity, and mass. They must be a bunch of over analytical geeky dorks because the sound is all in the (MFing) heads. ROFL Naw they be spot on. However their properties do vary in all dimensions- being the nature of wood.
 
In defense to DW, they took the grain orientation experiments to a new level. Or at least they are more transparent with it and market for it. And they were a house of maple only for a very long time.

I would not consider bearing edge or wood species irrelevant, just over-marketed as mentioned. When you look at the extremes like round-overs vs sharp 45, it not only sounds different but plays different. The extreme dense hardwoods versus something like poplar are quite different are immediately apparent. It's just that species like birch, ash, beech, maple, cherry...they are far more subtle than marketed.

There’s more difference within one wood species in terms of hardness/sound than across most species
 
There’s more difference within one wood species in terms of hardness/sound than across most species
Agreed, it’s only when you compare opposite ends of the spectrum, plus a few species with a very identifiable voice, where you hear a meaningful difference. Even then, only in the context of a build that allows those differences to come to the fore.
 
The science/physics applied to drums is ancient (and you see people like Andy applying it with great skill) but it sure seems like a lot of drum history was trial and error, and practical to resources? I think the differences found in woods probably surprised early drum builders not appreciating the differences in wood properties except maybe in bending and sanding for woodworking? I can imagine some woods abandoned because difficulty in handling (or toxic dust) and others adopted just because plentiful or easy to work. I remember Andy looking like he was cleaning up a crack lab with some of his builds with a hazmat suit on . Since I’ve read oldest drum a clay shell and gator hide head I’ve wanted to build me a Neolithic drum - maybe we’ve been missing some magic. Got plenty of red clay and gators for such experiments LOL.
 
iNDE did some collaborative builds with Jenkins-Martin Drums that turned me on to these two companies. If I ever get another set of shells, these are the only two on my radar.
 
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