What makes Ludwig snares so great?

[bermuda]

Like if CB700 steel snares were first, would we be chasing that tone? I'm going with yes. Imprinting is powerful.

To a point, yes.

But after decades of playing, and the ability to make smart sonic choices rather than comfortable romantic ones, and you still choose Supras and Black Beauties, I think that speaks well of the product (and the brand.) Granted, Ludwig has had some ups & downs, but the Supra line of snares has always excelled. It's sort of like microphones. There are a lot of quality mics out there, and preferences are usually very subjective. Yet a Shure 57 is used on snares probably 99% of the time both live and in the studio.

I have lots of snares from lots of manufacturers (including the esoteric Zelkova in all three sizes) yet my top-five snares are Ludwig Supras, Black Beauties, and especially the Copperphonic.

 

[GretschedHive]

Imprinting is powerful.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

 

[JimmyM]

To a point, yes.

But after decades of playing, and the ability to make smart sonic choices rather than comfortable romantic ones, and you still choose Supras and Black Beauties, I think that speaks well of the product (and the brand.) Granted, Ludwig has had some ups & downs, but the Supra line of snares has always excelled. It's sort of like microphones. There are a lot of quality mics out there, and preferences are usually very subjective. Yet a Shure 57 is used on snares probably 99% of the time both live and in the studio.

I have lots of snares from lots of manufacturers (including the esoteric Zelkova in all three sizes) yet my top-five snares are Ludwig Supras, Black Beauties, and especially the Copperphonic.

I would add my Ludwig Standard in there, but I'm a wood snare guy if left to my own devices and some aren't. Never had the pleasure of the Copperphonic in person but the vids I heard are about as good as a snare can possibly get...except my Standard

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

I don't know about that. Companies come and go, some go with stronger imprinting than the ones that carried on. Advertising is certainly part of it...a lot more people have heard of Ludwig than the guy an hour away who builds and sells his own, and both do stellar drums. But Slingerland used to be legendary, and now they're the lowest priced of the high end vintage drum market. And even Ludwig almost went away till they decided to get their act together.

I think products have staying power because they deliver the goods and are relevant to our current lives, and no amount of advertising is going to cover it up for too long. Certainly gives you a leg up when you're being bankrolled and advertised, but you still have to perform the job people bought you to do.

 

[yammyfan]

Anybody wanna buy my 6.5 DW Collectors nickel over brass? I’ll trade it for a 6.5 Supra.

I love my 5x14 Supra but my 6.5 DW black nickel is still my all-time favourite snare. I let a couple of guys play the DW at an open jam a few weeks ago and was blown away by how good it sounded from the audience, un-mic'd. It was a real eye opener. Best darn snare I've ever heard in a night club.

That said, I've played a 6.5 Supra extensively and it is indeed an incredible drum. Sacrilege maybe but I still wouldn't trade my DW for one. I would add a deeper Supra but not at the expense of the DW. Not trying to convince anybody of anything but if you've only ever heard your DW from behind the kit, a different perspective might give you a whole new appreciation for the thing.

Unrelated but it's scary just how close my 6.5x14 Yamaha Stage Custom steel with its S-Hoop resonant side comes to a 6.5 Supra. I would opt for the Supra if given the choice but for the money, the Yamaha is hard to beat.

Didn't mean to derail the thread. As you were!

 

[Neal Pert]

When lots of different people in lots of different settings have found that you have a product that works great, is very consistent drum to drum, is well-made, has a timeless yet uncomplicated design, isn't just a flavor of the month, rarely breaks but still has extremely available spare parts, and has seen little need for change for decades, you've got a classic drum. The Ludwig metal snares are classic drums.

This is a thing that the Japanese companies don't seem to get-- once you have a true classic, don't mess with it. Add or subtract similar models, sure-- make them out of different metals or whatever-- but just keep it once you've got it.

I'd venture to say these are all pretty similar reasons to why Noble and Cooley is so revered. They've innovated and consistently made amazing stuff. And the classic snares from the 80s and the snares from 2022 still have the same basic look and sound-- they're timeless and perfect.

 

[SharkSandwich]

I played drums for 23 years before I ever owned a Ludwig drum of any kind. During that time I had probably owned a dozen snares, none of them were Ludwig's.
On my 40th birthday I was gifted a 1960s Supraphonic, that's what started it for me. I owned other snares after that but eventually ended up with only Ludwig metal snares.

I see them as the Gibson Les Paul or Fender Stratocaster of their class. They're iconic instruments that have stood the test of time.

 

[AzHeat]

I own a couple of Ludwig snares and I've never had to replace a throw off.

You may want to tell the rest of the internet that. A search for p85 throw off issues and you’ll get pages. I remember just how thin and flimsy the throw off was on the Black Beauty my church bought. Definitely not up to the price paid. The snare that came with the Catalina set had a much smoother feel to it with no grit and that thing was low end.

But, on the subject of Ludwig snares, I’m always an outsider around here. That BB was just too pingy for my taste and I’m far from liking chocked or dead snares. We never got to experiment with other heads before the thing walked off, but I’m usually in the Ambassador and tiny moongel camp. Maybe it was the stock Ludwig head. Don’t know, but we never had run away tone issues with anything I or anyone else brought like we did with that BB.

 

[Lefty Phillips]

I don't give a rat's ass about Ludwigs, but I'm 100% going to get a BB at some point.

"People hear with their eyes and think with their asses."

 

[JimmyM]

You may want to tell the rest of the internet that. A search for p85 throw off issues and you’ll get pages. I remember just how thin and flimsy the throw off was on the Black Beauty my church bought. Definitely not up to the price paid. The snare that came with the Catalina set had a much smoother feel to it with no grit and that thing was low end.

But, on the subject of Ludwig snares, I’m always an outsider around here. That BB was just too pingy for my taste and I’m far from liking chocked or dead snares. We never got to experiment with other heads before the thing walked off, but I’m usually in the Ambassador and tiny moongel camp. Maybe it was the stock Ludwig head. Don’t know, but we never had run away tone issues with anything I or anyone else brought like we did with that BB.

Some people are really particular about their throw offs, I guess, but I've never had a problem with them. When you have one of those early 30's Ludwig strainers, you learn to deal with just about anything.

Ya, the BB can be bright, and I've heard some folks don't like it. I once read Steve Gadd didn't like it. I'm not as fond of the 5 as the 6 1/2, either. For a 5 I'd rather have a Supra or an Acro.

 

[mikyok]

Re the dreaded P85. I had the same problems with them being stiff and a bit crap all round.

A few drops of 3 in 1 oil cure it instantly and your p85 is fast and smooth. 3 in 1 is a must have in kit maintenance.

 

[Juniper]

You may want to tell the rest of the internet that. A search for p85 throw off issues and you’ll get pages. I remember just how thin and flimsy the throw off was on the Black Beauty my church bought. Definitely not up to the price paid. The snare that came with the Catalina set had a much smoother feel to it with no grit and that thing was low end.

But, on the subject of Ludwig snares, I’m always an outsider around here. That BB was just too pingy for my taste and I’m far from liking chocked or dead snares. We never got to experiment with other heads before the thing walked off, but I’m usually in the Ambassador and tiny moongel camp. Maybe it was the stock Ludwig head. Don’t know, but we never had run away tone issues with anything I or anyone else brought like we did with that BB.

I better tell the rest of the internet?

The whole thing? Wow, ok. I better get cracking

Not everyone has throw off issues. They work (I mean, it’s just a throw off) generally but some people don’t like them.

 

[RickP]

Ludwig caught lightning in a bottle with their metal shell snare design . Like Bermuda alluded to they have and see if use that was attractive to players . Many musicians grew up playing a Supraphonic in band class . The Supra was also the stock snare supplied with kits as well .

I have probably had more Ludwig snares in my career than any other brand . I have owned snares from Ludaloy , Brass , Copper, Classic maples and Legacy maples . They were all good workmanlike snares and to be honest I only kept one . The 5” Black Beauty . This particular snare ticks off all the boxes for me . It might be the most versatile snare I have ever played . It has a ton of sentimental value for me as well because my girlfriend paid for the John Aldridge engraving job for my 50th Bday . It is my prettiest snare and best sounding snare . It doesn’t stay in a case or on a shelf , it gets heavy rotation when I gig and rehearse . It is beloved by my band mates and gets lots of compliments by drummers in the audience .

 

[someguy01]

I wouldn't call the throw off "junk", but 6 or 7 rimshots on my acro and the throw off self releases. I'll get around to fixing it, but nothing else I own has this issue.

 

[PorkPieGuy]

They make some great snares, but Ludwigs just have that little something. How do they get to it?

There's a reason why people have been copying the BB for decades. It's an incredible snare drum. I don't buy the hype until I hear something for myself. To my ears and hands, I totally get why people love the BB.

I had band practice for the first time in 6 weeks last night. I put new heads (all Remo Ambassador single-ply coated) on my Classic Maples toms(13, 16, 18) and my 14 x 8 Black Beauty and tuned them with the Tune-Bot, and I played them with my Heartbeats. Folks, if there's a better-sounding kit to my ears out there, I've not heard it yet. Even though the new Legacy kits are more expensive, they don't "do the thing" for me. I love Classic Maples and the BB snare drums.

I've shown this here before, but here is a quick sound check from a show we played several months ago. At this point, the heads had about 30 shows in them, but this kit still "does the thing." Man, I love this drum set.

 

[s1212z]

The p88 for me is not bad, though they made the strainer tension knob so freakin stiff though. You can get a Dunnett or Trick for $50-80 and I think their are well worth it. Pearl and Tama built their empires by Ludwig having historically terrible hardware and many brands have templated Ludwig's design to either make cheaper or improve certain features. The Atlas gear looks good but many are still traumatized.

I love my Acro, it has tons of personality which is something I keep encountering for Ludwig stuff. And by the rules of Pulp Fiction, if you have personality you cease to be a filthy animal. But I opt'd for Canopus's version of the BB, they had a number changes that were significant for me to select it over Ludwig's.

 

[Supraman5x14]

If the shoe fits...that's how I view it. As @Frosticles stated, if it's a keeper, you know it. Still have my '67 Supraphonic 5×14 and my 7×14 Noble and Cooley SS. I love Ludwig drums, but there maybe imprinted reputations on them since they were the early leader in the last century. As I alluded to on another post yesterday, it's important to be selective in purchasing equipment. Back in 2014 I bought a 5×14 Pearl Sensitone Nickel/Brass because, I didn't want to spend the money for a Ludwig BB. Turns out, that was a smart move since I really didn't like the brightness of brass for MYSELF. Like the a suit of clothes that looks good on someone else, but it isn't for me. All the best to you all in the New Year!

 

[Supraman5x14]

The p85 for me is not bad, though they made the strainer tension knob so freakin stiff though. You can get a Dunnett or Trick for $50-80 and I think their are well worth it. Pearl and Tama built their empires by Ludwig having historically terrible hardware and many brands have templated Ludwig's design to either make cheaper or improve certain features. The Atlas gear looks good but many are still traumatized.

I love my Acro, it has tons of personality which is something I keep encountering for Ludwig stuff. And by the rules of Pulp Fiction, if you have personality you cease to be a filthy animal. But I opt'd for Canopus's version of the BB, they had a number changes that were significant for me to select it over Ludwig's.

But I do remember, for the longest time, drummers continued to use Ludwig snares with their new Japanese kits. There was a time when I, and many, looked at Tama, Pearl and Yamaha as providing awesome hardware, but the snares weren't quite what they liked in terms of sound. That would change, particularly from the mid eighties onward.

 

[Lennytoons]

IMO the Supra and Acro are just money snares. You can do anything with them. I favor the ones from the 60's. I replace the throw offs with Indie's and don't look back. I keep the original of course in case I ever decide to sell one, which I won't. My favorite snare of all time is a '67 Acro with the original heads. I can't get that sound with anything else and believe me I've tried.

 

[AzHeat]

I better tell the rest of the internet?

The whole thing? Wow, ok. I better get cracking

Not everyone has throw off issues. They work (I mean, it’s just a throw off) generally but some people don’t like them.

My comment was tongue in cheek. Sorry I came off as attacking. I really wasn't. Just sharing what I keep reading and my own experience, but I haven't bought any Ludwig snares, based on the comments and the throw off feel. If I did come across one for a good price, I would change the throw off. To me, Ludwig really cheapened out there. Glad it works for some or most.

 

[dwsabianguy]

Re the dreaded P85. I had the same problems with them being stiff and a bit crap all round.

A few drops of 3 in 1 oil cure it instantly and your p85 is fast and smooth. 3 in 1 is a must have in kit maintenance.

Seriously. I don't know why people have such a hard time applying a drop of oil or Loctite every once in a while. My P-85s all work perfectly fine, and they're low-tech, low-weight, low-profile devices. My Dunnett throws are certainly none of those.

And at any rate, if you get a new drum it has a 99% chance of having a P-88 on it (unless you specifically order a drum with a P-85), so why complain about something that the drums no longer come with?