Jazz soloing: Filling, phrasing, voicing, trading 4's 8's, vocabulary.

I think it's important to understand what Syncopation is. It's just reading pages, rhythms that that you use as a basis for interpretation. There are plenty of teachers that use nothing but the first page of Syncopation, but they 1000s of ways to interpret it is the key. Accents, flams, filling in with singles or doubles is just the beginning. It doesn't have to be static and it's when you make your own exercises and build your own phrases that you integrate into your vocabulary the work really begins.
I've written a lot about it, and a lot of systems for using it, for all styles and all levels of students.
 
Never mind that, you're ready. You'll figure it out.

some times playing with others is the best way to learn...b/c you have to make choices. You have to really sift out and sort out what you have been doing...

I practiced jazz stuff for a good 20 years before I played in my first legit jazz situation (HS jazz band sort of doesn't count since it is all pretty structured in a way)....and that first time with other people was super nerve racking...until after the first few songs. Then I just figured out what to do, and what not to do...and also realized that the other guys were doing the same thing...you just knew when things were right, and when they weren't.
 
How about posting an ad that you're looking for beginner/intermediate Jazz players? They want to learn, too and having a band makes it so much more fun and guides your practice. Have some sessions with them in a studio if the prospect of sessions in front of an audience and with unfamiliar tunes is too much stress. You don't need to come "out of nowhere" and suddenly play like a god.

I don't want to think too much about people right now but I remember the suggestion for later. Plus, like Todd said it can be done because of lock downs.

I like drums and music but dealing with a group of people.. really I'll wait after the 8th Canadian wave of Covid-19 lol. We are getting into the 3rd wave so this thing is never ending.

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Odd-Arne Oseberg I think about producing a video of my modest improvisation so you guys can see my level. I just had my drum practice and it was seriously a fun experience. I played over a record of Bill Evans called "The Lost Session From The Black Forest"

I love playing with Bill Evans, my favorite of his albums are not even filled with drums.. so there is much liberty for me.
 
The rhythms are rarely that complicated. They're just clear and have a logical progression.

What makes things sound "professional" is a bit of oramentation added to those rhtythms.

If often expose students to these things pretty early. We take like 4 notes and move them around the kit. Then we e.g. make 1 a flam and do a double on 3. Then swith swithch them around. Then we do 2 and 4. Then we have fun with splitting the flam between two drums. When you're confident with that simple rhythms and have some possibilities under your belt you try another one. Eventually mixing it up and just focusing on the flow.
 
The rhythms are rarely that complicated. They're just clear and have a logical progression.

What makes things sound "professional" is a bit of oramentation added to those rhtythms.

If often expose students to these things pretty early. We take like 4 notes and move them around the kit. Then we e.g. make 1 a flam and do a double on 3. Then swith swithch them around. Then we do 2 and 4. Then we have fun with splitting the flam between two drums. When you're confident with that simple rhythms and have some possibilities under your belt you try another one. Eventually mixing it up and just focusing on the flow.
I like your approach

much more about music than drumming

I make students trade 4's with one hand.

I have them park the bead left stick (or right if they are lefty) dead sticked into the head so they can use it for stick on stick if they desire and trade 4's using one hand and their their feet if they want to use them.

I feel this forces you to use Ideas instead of resorting to "drummy" $#!+

I'll call out things like ... "ok, this time only use 'ands' " ... or ... "this time you can't use beat 1" ... etc etc

I'm of the mind that it is far more important to develop ideas and a musical phrase vocabulary based on simple rhythmic figures than relying on or forcing cluttered stickings or rudiments ... especially when first learning to improvise.

I also strongly encourage them to listen closely to who they are trading with and to take the last figure that person plays and start their break quoting it

This is why it is important to play with others ... in this music a good portion of what you play is a direct response or reaction to what someone else plays

Listen to someone like Philly Joe Jones ... you will very often hear him quote the soloist before his' figures within his own 4's and 8's

This strengthens your ears as much as your ability to develop ideas

I think too many drummers forget that the idea is to allow the tune to continue through your break ... whether it's a 4, 8 or chorus ... and not an opportunity to show your "stuff"
 
I also strongly encourage them to listen closely to who they are trading with and to take the last figure that person plays and start their break quoting it

we use this idea A TON while teaching improv to the middle school jazz band kids...

another thing like it is having them take simple melodies from "kids songs" that they already know, and go off of that.

and also doing the "one note, rhythmic variations" thing - which is like the one handed trading 4's for drummers

I also will have my set players only use 1 drum at first....then 2....then mix one drum and bass...

you can get super creative without ever even talking about "chops" and filling all of the space...but I do encourage that as well because it is part of the vocab/activity. We just have to work up to it's usage and learn about "right time/right place"
 
Thanks so far for all the data on the subject

I am going to write a plan including things to develop, setting small goals and keeping a log of my development.
 
Being on the student side, this thread is hugely interesting to me.
My solos are a hybrid of improvising and drawing from a "lick library". Sometimes improvising will lead me into a lick, or a stock opening phrase will lead me into improvising.
When I started, it was all improv, and it was a mess much of the time. With the library approach, I can at least navigate my way in and out of solos in a way that makes sense with the music. I would love to just play and not think about any of this, but I haven't reached that level of enlightenment.
 
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Being on the student side, this thread is hugely interesting to me.
My solos are a hybrid of improvising and drawing from a "lick library". Sometimes improvising will lead me into a lick, or a stock opening phrase will lead me into improvising.
When I started, it was all improv, and it was a mess much of the time. With the library approach, I can at least navigate my way in and out solos in a way that makes sense with the music. I would love to just play and not think about any of this, but I haven't reached that level of enlightenment.
Ah good for you!

I am still in darkness. 😅 I didn't worked on the subject yet.
 
Being on the student side, this thread is hugely interesting to me.
My solos are a hybrid of improvising and drawing from a "lick library". Sometimes improvising will lead me into a lick, or a stock opening phrase will lead me into improvising.
When I started, it was all improv, and it was a mess much of the time. With the library approach, I can at least navigate my way in and out solos in a way that makes sense with the music. I would love to just play and not think about any of this, but I haven't reached that level of enlightenment.

yeah, i have "go to" ideas that usually start a fill idea, but in jazz especially, I have always just tried to vamp off of the melody of the song...or sometimes I will steal a melodic idea I heard one of the other guys use in their solo, and put that in my playing, to see if they recognize it...like a little quiz....

in general though, I hate soloing for my self. If it is as small as trading 4's, that is fine, but don't give me a 16 bar break, or some epic 20 minute thing. The real weird, funny, and stupid thign is that I don't like long solos because I get bored of hearing my self noodle for that long...but I LOVE hearing other guys take solos - I grew up on Neil Peart extended solos, and love to go see guys play at clinics - but don't lioke to do it myself. <- I think that has to do with my introverted nature as well...I tend to not like being the center of attention

and I work real hard on developing speed and chops - but never use them when soloing, or I don't base the solo or fill around speed and chops. I think they are more for my marching band playing...
 
I think sight reading from drum books or band charts is going to help compositional skills.
Listening to a melody on a radio and trying to answer it on the drum kit is a perfect way to help improvisational skills (the paradiddle on the kit is nothing more than a sticking change). Eg, use the toms for the melody and the snare for the fillins... you'll be forced to apply the paradiddle without thinking about it.
And these aren't necessarily sequential learning skills. It's best to think of them as simply tools. That way you can work on them a little each day while you work on other things.
 
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and I work real hard on developing speed and chops - but never use them when soloing, or I don't base the solo or fill around speed and chops. I think they are more for my marching band playing...
Absolutely. I would much rather listen to something musical like Roy Haynes' solo on "In Walked Bud" than someone showing off how fast they are for 20 minutes. If someone's not soloing on the song form I get bored pretty quick.
 
Absolutely. I would much rather listen to something musical like Roy Haynes' solo on "In Walked Bud" than someone showing off how fast they are for 20 minutes. If someone's not soloing on the song form I get bored pretty quick.

I think "fast" has to be evenly sprinkled in with everything else...I am not against speed, and technical prowess at all...I DON'T think it should be ignored/downplayed/shunned or deemed a waste of time and effort...

and in the same vein, if all the person is doing is playing just slow, spacious,"melodic" playing, I get bored of that too
 
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