Technique on the pad for analysis.

Auspicious

Silver Member

This thread is related to my previous thread about tendonitis where I promised to publish a video for analysis of my current technique on the pad, in order to see if it could contain any fatal errors or obvious things to correct. (and to prevent injuries)

Just for the record, for those who remember, we talked about the Moeller and push pull method and I didn't practiced any of it at all yet.

***
Warning, this is a pretty boring video for educational purposes.

Part 1: I am playing single stroke roll, double stroke roll, multiple bounce roll and triplets. Trying to chain these individual items (and mixing them by mistake at some point)
Part 2: I am trying to play triplets, inverting hands and dynamically changing the strength of the strokes on the pad, the result is not very good :) perhaps for such a situation, one day, the Moeller technique could be useful.
Part 3: It's an attempt to play16th bars of the Stick Control book page 19, the bars in this order: 1, 10, 2, 11, 3, 13, 4, 13


NOTE: My elbows are OK but it looks like the right one is affected the most and by far.
 
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If you had bad posture, that would be the only thing I can imagine causing problems in the long run. Is it possible practicing is causing elbow pain initially caused by something else?
I'm not sure what we're looking for here, but as far as technique the only thing that stands out to me is maybe relying too much on rebound for the triple strokes. Need more fingers. Getting those notes even on triples will consequently benefit your doubles. Kill two rudimental birds with one stone.
 
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This is really interesting, as you say it’s in both arms.

two things are noticeable to me at first glance. Your right hand grip (French-orientated), and your general tension. Your left hand traditional grip is very closed and looks quite tight,and neither hand seems to be really utilising the rebound of the sticks.

because you’ve said it’s in both elbows, it leads me to think it’s a combination of tension and lack of rebound. This forces you to put more effort into the upstroke, placing strain on the tendons and elbows.

Consider loosening your grips and opening the fingers. As an exercise, try to play a full stroke. Start with the stick vertical, do a nice big throw towards the pad, and allow the stick to rebound back up to the vertical position entirely on its own. You should have no part in the upstroke except in controlling and catching it at the top.

the reason I say this is again linked to your grips on both hands. Your hybrid French right hand has the thumb tightly on top which restricts the rebound. Likewise on your left, the fingers seem to be closing above the stick. Open strokes on the trad grip are essentially all thumb bounces, and the fingers only engage when more intricate control is needed.

I’d have to watch a lot more closely to give you more, but they are my first impressions. Open, more relaxed grips and more rebound reduce the strain on the muscles. I was taught that in general, the grip should be loose enough to drop the sticks if they are knocked together. Practical or not, it always made me consciously consider the tension in my grips.
 
as far as technique the only thing that stands out to me is maybe relying too much on rebound for the triple strokes. Need more fingers. Getting those notes even on triples will consequently benefit your doubles. Kill two rudimental birds with one stone.

I 100% agree on the lack of finger control. It’s funny because in my reply I said there wasn’t enough rebound of the sticks. In that I’m refereeing to the more open strokes in the beginning of the video. The strokes are low and quite weak, with very little momentum in them. As the video progresses, it becomes more clear that the fingers aren’t engaging in the strokes.

I think this is again due to some grip issues. Both hands seem to be holding the sticks with some issues. Your left hand trad seems like it’s copying some jazz players, which was a feel thing, and not necessarily conducive to seeing Rudimental technique. Look at Tony’s left hand when he plays big open doubles. It looks completely different to yours here.
 
In a way you both relying on rebound too much and and at the same time not utilizing it enough.

Basically, you're not really letting the stick bounce freely, but at the same time your grips are not allowing you to lift and control the stick either, so there's no contradiction.

As for the elbows. The grip and other things that create constant unnecessary tension is probably a factor.

We all have different hands and different grips work for different people, but you need to adjust them so you have full control of the stick. At this point your're bouncing it and holding on to it. It's hard to explain this via video, forum text, but if you slow down and work on a couple of different dynamic levels it should be more clear what needs to happen to have more control and play more evenly.

These are the main points to contiually improve one's technique. Adjust for more control, balance and flow and at the same time avoid unnecessary tension where it serves no purpose. People get it in different areas. Shoulders and chest are the most common, I think.

It's probably a good idea to get some conditioning with higher strokes in there. That tends to expose a lot and is necessary work.
 
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Some great advice above. It’s odd that you have it in both arms, but I can see how your current grip could cause tension, and possibly injury?:unsure: From a matched grip perspective I have a relatively relaxed grip that enables all of my fingers to get involved (a more relaxed grip will also help you when you do your Moeller deep dive!)...that said you might want to rest up for a bit and if it persists you really should have it looked at by a physician...(y):)

*edit: I should add that I also play palms down like the guys mention below... :) (y)
 

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Your left hand looks workable, your right hand technique is very strange-- to make a stroke you're articulating your wrist sideways, which it is really not designed to do, or you're lifting your forearm from the elbow. Usually there's a little bit of forearm rotation with that kind of grip. I'm not at all surprised if trying to use your wrist that way is giving you pain.

So-called French grip is not a standard snare drum grip to begin with. I know there are a lot of videos about it. But it's a timpani grip for playing single full strokes with a lot of lift off the drum, with generally a lot of assistance from your forearm. It's a crappy grip for normal snare drum music, which involves multiple types of strokes and articulations, and a lot of finesse at the quieter end.

Normally people play German or American grip on the snare drum, because they're designed for it, and French on the cymbal, because that's a natural position for your hand when you move it to the cymbal. I suggest that on the snare drum you use a standard grip that will be easier for you to self-correct-- German grip is very simple and involves moving your wrist in the normal direction it's designed for.
 
you are relying on the surface completely

learn to USE rebound not RELY on it

sorry about your tendonitis ... that's no fun at all

I would recommend some pillow practice, what do you think, Todd? I like to play rudiments on a snare reso head that is laying on a pillow, to keep me humble. Lol
 
I agree with @toddbishop's analysis above. French Grip (thumbs up) requires the wrist to move in a manner that contradicts its construction, whereas German Grip (palms down, thumbs on sides of sticks) allows the wrist to function in a mode consistent with its design. German is the only grip I use. That's been the case for almost forty years, and I've never experienced drumming-related wrist or elbow discomfort. I realize that French Grip has its place in certain maneuvers, but I see far too many drummers employing it for everything they play. That injury is rampant doesn't surprise me.
 
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As Todd and CM pointed out, the wrist is designed to work like a hinge. Your forearm is 90 degrees off in that respect. I use French and German on the ride, but the snare is always German for me. I use a combo of wrist and fingers held in the German position while playing the snare FWIW
I'd suggest rotating your right hand forearm counter-clockwise 90 degrees which is not the position that you currently hold it.

I'd go back to square one with the right hand and relearn the stroke moving the underside side of your wrist, so it's facing and parallel with, the floor.

Get your right wrist situated first and after that is down, maybe consider opening the right hand up and utilizing the fingers and wrists instead of the forearm and wrists to motivate the stick.

Also, French Grip...the fingers motivate the stick from the bottom. The wrist movement you are doing isn't really a part of the French grip.

It's the fingers that do the work in French, with next to no wrist
 
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@larryace

Ok, I see what you mean about my french grip and the fingers.

I am fastracking this by watching French grip and German grip videos right now. It's the first time I really appreciate the differences but it's ok, I am going to apply imperative corrective measures.


Your left hand looks workable, Thanks ((; your right hand technique is very strange-- to make a stroke you're articulating your wrist sideways, which it is really not designed to do, or you're lifting your forearm from the elbow. Usually there's a little bit of forearm rotation with that kind of grip. I'm not at all surprised if trying to use your wrist that way is giving you pain.

So-called French grip is not a standard snare drum grip to begin with. Ok I know there are a lot of videos about it. But it's a timpani grip for playing single full strokes with a lot of lift off the drum, with generally a lot of assistance from your forearm. It's a crappy grip for normal snare drum music, which involves multiple types of strokes and articulations, and a lot of finesse at the quieter end. ok

Normally people play German or American grip on the snare drum, because they're designed for it, and French on the cymbal, because that's a natural position for your hand when you move it to the cymbal. I suggest that on the snare drum you use a standard grip that will be easier for you to self-correct-- German grip is very simple and involves moving your wrist in the normal direction it's designed for. Ok I will follow your advice.
 
Some great advice above. It’s odd that you have it in both arms, but I can see how your current grip could cause tension, and possibly injury?:unsure: From a matched grip perspective I have a relatively relaxed grip that enables all of my fingers to get involved (a more relaxed grip will also help you when you do your Moeller deep dive!)...that said you might want to rest up for a bit and if it persists you really should have it looked at by a physician...(y):)

*edit: I should add that I also play palms down like the guys mention below... :) (y)

As Mr. Strange demonstrates above, maintaining a loose grip is just as important as grip position. A loose grip facilitates rebound, permitting the sticks to perform half the work for you. Bearing down on sticks can quickly lead to fatigue and strain. Tense drumming should be avoided at all cost.
 
A loose grip ok

I spent time listening carefully to videos on the subject today and took notes from your advises here and advises from the videos, it's bigger then I thought.

As I see it right now, my jazz ride needs to be a French grip and with the snare, the right hand I would switch to German, both are required.

Since I play traditional grip, I am going to learn French and German only for the right hand.
 
The good news today, I now know the difference between French, German and American grips along with the general idea of the "open close" technique. I also learned about open playing while searching for the open closed technique.

Still need to figure out the difference between push-pull and open close now.

A good day after all. :)
 
A loose grip ok

I spent time listening carefully to videos on the subject today and took notes from your advises here and advises from the videos, it's bigger then I thought.

As I see it right now, my jazz ride needs to be a French grip and with the snare, the right hand I would switch to German, both are required.

Since I play traditional grip, I am going to learn French and German only for the right hand.

A lot of people use American on snare. I recommend getting good at all 3.
 
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