Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

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MisterMixelpix said:
It's why I rarely like drum solos in general. To me, drums are the perfect "enhancing" instrument. They feel the pulse of the song and accentuate it. One guy tippity tapping on the lugs of his drums while hitting quarter notes on a hat? That's nothing to me. I'll listen to a full jazz band any day of the week and ADORE it. Jazz drum solos? no thanks.
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Sorry couldn't resist. This guy might have something to offer of the subject in question. Pretty musical and interesting with tons of musical dialoque and interaction going on first with Rufus then with just himself... QUITE the story to tell of substance to MY ears...other ears may feel very different about that. Who is right? Who is wrong? Does it really matter to the guy delivering the goods at his personal best seen in the clip?

Just more thoughts on the subject to ponder....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6LVlEbjAuE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4VEqxkdzw&feature=related
 
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Why are you arguing about these things? No matter how right you think you are about art, you never are. And that's excactly why it's constantly evolving to something new. I like my art in the moment with passion, emotion and improvisation, others like it well composed, produced, calculated and of course emotional in it's own way. It's not like we all love the same kind of women/men either.
 
JPW said:
Why are you arguing about these things? No matter how right you think you are about art, you never are. And that's excactly why it's constantly evolving to something new. I like my art in the moment with passion, emotion and improvisation, others like it well composed, produced, calculated and of course emotional in it's own way. It's not like we all love the same kind of women/men either.
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+1. Well said. My thoughts exactly.
 
Steamer said:
P.S. how's the reh's. for the May concert coming along by the way J.?
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We're not going to rehearse until a couple of weeks before the show. I think two rehearsals should knock the dust off the band. Thanks for asking, Stan.
 
Steamer said:
Keep us updated Jay............
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I'll be glad to, Stan. And look, in case anyone's wondering about Matt's insinuation, I did not start this thread. Why would I? How could anyone come to the conclusion that I think jazz drummers are overrated?

I do think it's interesting, though, to see things from the OP's point of view. Back when I started jazz was the thing and everyone knew it. These days for sheer technical monstrosity I guess it's metal, or maybe the "gospel" drumming I've heard about, neither of which appear to have anything to do with jazz drumming techniques.

I don't find it hard to imagine that after focusing on the not-subtle super-fast uber-chops drumming found in metal, jazz drumming would come across as sounding a little tame, no?
 
Typical newbie troll. They start a provocative thread and then quickly bail. People shouldn't loose sleep over this.

Dennis
 
Thaard said:
Anyone else think the trio sound is better or worse with upright bass? A friend of mine says that the upright bass is too percussive and drowns out the drums/takes it's place.
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I'll admit to being a snob where the bass is concerned. To me, if the music calls for an acoustic piano then I've got to have an acoustic bass in there.

It can be tricky to play with the upright bass, it's not as "fat" sounding maybe, not as consistent as the electric. You have to listen more to the upright, whereas with the electric you can feel the pulse more, you can sit right on it a lot easier. Anyway that's just my take on it, and I'm only talking about acoustic jazz.

I definitely think it's a lot more fun to play with an upright bass. You and the bass player really have to work to make a nice blend, I think. Also, cymbals sound a lot prettier in an acoustic setting.
 
Breaking cymbals? And sticks? I've never done either. I'm one of those guys who learned from a band director that "drums were to be felt, and not heard". We used to laugh that off as know-it-all scholastic percussionists, but you know what? There's some truth to that. I learned it playing jazz. When I switched to rock, country and now old school R &B, I've often been complimented on my playing. You know why? Because I learned the basics of time, accents, working the high hat and doing things on the ride and snare, that the then-hard rock drummers didn't quite get. Nor do they often, as posted earlier, understand a whole lot of dynamics. There are other very good jazz drummers who've played R & B who somehow never get mentioned in many of these forums: Issac "Red" Holt, of Ramsey Lewis and Young-Holt unlimited fame, and Grady Tate, who played with Jimmy Smith and Wes Montgomery to name a few. And don't forget the Funk Bros. trifecta of Benny "Papa Zita" Benjamin, Uriel Jones and Pistol Pete Allen. Those guys brought it strong. I doubt if they broke cymbals, though..
 
il tell you my theory, this guy is a normal poster with his real screename, but made this one to piss people off that like jazz, he may be posting on the thing now and u wouldn't know, ill tell you why i think this,
He has a clear understanding of the website, he talked about the jazz vibe here and different things that are true, the vibe here is hard to understand untill you start posting on this website, a good bit, there was nothing to GO JAZZ in the current posts, and if you type in jazz under the search mostly tech. comes up
 
mattsmith said:
I ask that no jazz drummer comment here and just let this ignorant foolishness justifiably die on the vine. This one simply isn't worth it, and in no way can lead to a true dialogue. It's got a troll feel to it anyway.
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You think everyone is a "troll", it wouldn't surprise me if you made up that idiotic name.
It's funny, because this guy starts a thread and is never heard from again in the very thread he started. I think he's either a misguided wonker or he wants to watch the same people post over and over again on a topic they think is a joke.

If he really believes what he said, then he's a moron, if he's just playing, then he's still a moron, but at least he's a moron with a sense of humour.
 
"Alan" still hasn't logged back which is giving weight to the troll conspiracy theory.

I'm with Tommy - it's gotta be Matt!

1) He came on very early to warn us away yet he's not a regular poster these days. Hmmm. He'd be well aware that saying "Don't post here!" is a gilt-edge invitation to post :) ... eg. "Darling don't touch it, it's precious"

2) He pointed to Jay to throw us off the trail. The ex con is always the obvious suspect. Yet he talks in detail about the perpetrator's modus operandi, "Then he came back again several times under his usual identity and none of the hardcores took the bait, seeing as how his routine has become so old and predictable". No one else knew this. Double hmmm.

3) Matt said the troll didn't do a good job. It's an expression of disappointment. The riot didn't eventuate. Matt's a perfectionist so this would have hurt.

# Conspiracy theory #3 :)
 
Hi guys.

I saw this thread yesterday and it was instant "Troll" alert to me.

However, I'd like to make a comment regarding jazz drumming, rock drumming, circle drumming etc. I teach my students that all drumming is related. It matters not the techniques used. Communicated ideas such as question and answer, telegraphed messages as well as dance, ritual, celebration....all these things are apart of drumming across world communities throughout history. The drumset is not an island unto itself and neither is any individual musical style.

Construct mentioned jazz techniques not being used in metal, for example. Which "jazz techniques"? And by whom? Triplets are used in jazz, as are single stroke rolls. Who is to say some metal drummers are not using techniques of any description? Who is to say jazz drummers are not using ideas dating back to rhythms played by the Yoruba people from Nigeria? Seeing as our modern rhythmic ideas have their origin in native African and other world styles how can any style not be a part of another?

To put down any form of drumming is to debase all drumming.

I believe that ideas such as comparing the value of musical styles to one another is rooted more in classed based society than anything else. It has nothing to do with drumming. Drumming is bigger than any one style and it will outlast them all.

There, I am done. :)
 
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