Lots of chops..? Nothing wrong with that..

reminds me of the old crossover/thrash days where you would see every type of person at the shows...punks, skins, metalheads, Mods, nerds, New Wavers; all in a great circle pit of humanity where for a small part of our lives, we could all agree on a few things...
Didn't they all hate each other back then though (I assume you're talking 80's)?
 
Didn't they all hate each other back then though (I assume you're talking 80's)?

not in our scene...here at most of the midwest shows, the only hate was for Nazi-skins...true skins were always welcome, as was everyone else...well...except for cops usually

there was never any violence unless the boneheads came to the shows...and they were usually very quickly dispatched
 
dude...your whole post was great, but this was probably the coolest part about it. I think we all forget how great this place, and opportunity is to be a part of!!

reminds me of the old crossover/thrash days where you would see every type of person at the shows...punks, skins, metalheads, Mods, nerds, New Wavers; all in a great circle pit of humanity where for a small part of our lives, we could all agree on a few things...
I haven't even fully wrapped my head around how interesting this forum world is.
My own life essentially revolves around music and drumming and yet all of my experience is just one branch of this huge tree. There's like an infinite variety of drummers here. And behind all the avatars and stories and knowledge are actual humans who have other dimensions besides drumming.

I suppose I am seeing it with fresh eyes because I spent the last 12 years in the shed and this is my first time wandering out and seeing this many drummers in the same place!
 
I haven't even fully wrapped my head around how interesting this forum world is.
My own life essentially revolves around music and drumming and yet all of my experience is just one branch of this huge tree. There's like an infinite variety of drummers here. And behind all the avatars and stories and knowledge are actual humans who have other dimensions besides drumming.

I suppose I am seeing it with fresh eyes because I spent the last 12 years in the shed and this is my first time wandering out and seeing this many drummers in the same place!

yep...and those branches, and "world bubbles" all collide and intertwine, and that is what makes it so cool

music is the Universal Language. It is the common denominator among ALL living things...not just humans, and that in itself is the very embodiment of Divinity I think.

I have learned so much from interaction on this forum, as well as the others I am on...and while I think there is A LOT of negative stuff that comes along with the anonymous power the internet gives, if you approach, and use it correctly - like any tool - it can be to your advantage.

The rub is that, I think you have to come at this tool with some a priori knowledge about face-to-face interaction and communication, and many, many people do not bring that knowledge to this idiom becasue they have not lived in a world where intra personal interaction is taught
 
yep...and those branches, and "world bubbles" all collide and intertwine, and that is what makes it so cool

music is the Universal Language. It is the common denominator among ALL living things...not just humans, and that in itself is the very embodiment of Divinity I think.

I have learned so much from interaction on this forum, as well as the others I am on...and while I think there is A LOT of negative stuff that comes along with the anonymous power the internet gives, if you approach, and use it correctly - like any tool - it can be to your advantage.

The rub is that, I think you have to come at this tool with some a priori knowledge about face-to-face interaction and communication, and many, many people do not bring that knowledge to this idiom becasue they have not lived in a world where intra personal interaction is taught
Oh yes, I see that last issue a lot. "Problems" that could have been solved right away by talking with band mates/teachers/neighbors. I partially blame the pandemic: people are isolated and look for ideas and information all by themselves online. I hope that this will change a bit as we return to a life without curfews and get used again to regular human interaction.
 
I give you, all of it in one sitting. Watch to the end.
 
Oh yes, I see that last issue a lot. "Problems" that could have been solved right away by talking with band mates/teachers/neighbors. I partially blame the pandemic: people are isolated and look for ideas and information all by themselves online. I hope that this will change a bit as we return to a life without curfews and get used again to regular human interaction.

yeah...I think it started as soon as cell phones became prolific...that was the Great Detachment for me

I feel like we are now living in about the 3rd generation of device zombies

and yes, I am old
 
it's an incredibly niche market that you're really going to struggle make any kind of money from, I've been down that road briefly and it goes over peoples heads for the most part, hence why it was brief. You play what people want to hear if you wanna make it anywhere in the music business, emphasis on business. Plenty of broke elitists out there. Enjoy being skint? Then chop away!
I think I see the disconnect. I am not a career drummer; I enjoy listening to, exploring, and making music. It seems like you've reduced music to a means of earning money. In my eyes that is a tragedy, and it is a sad outlook that I hope I never come to adopt. I don't mean offense by that; I know that realistically, certain things must be given up in making drumming profitable and appealing to the musically uninclined masses.
Your job is ultimately not to be noticed. If the ego can't handle that go down the clicks views and likes route.
I'm not in it for ego or recognition and I don't like to be the center of attention. I regularly play mainstream music live and know that there is a time, place, and (admittedly niche) application for more complicated playing. I can't help but get bored with the dead-simple stuff. I'm always wanting to expand my horizons, explore more, learn more, and improve what I already know. For me, that has driven me towards more complicated music.

I also don't agree that a drummer's job is to not be noticed. When I listen to music, I enjoy hearing each aspect (vocals and all instruments and sounds) and admire what it contributes to the whole piece. It's possible to tastefully contribute to the music without trying to hog the listener's attention.
everyone in Snarky Puppy plays on a well paid gig that's money beat simple and laughs all the way to the bank
If getting the "well paid gig that's money beat simple" were their ultimate goal and satisfaction, snarky puppy would not exist... :unsure:
I believe there's more to music than getting paid to churn it out like a machine.
[drums and bass] are there to keep time
If that were really true, you'd be fired and your bandmates would replace you with this guy, who will always outdo you on keeping time.
replacement drummer.jpg

How could you hold such a low view of drumming and not be ashamed to be a drummer?
Jo public dont care about ur chops or your fancy kit...all they want is a back beat
Their loss. Sounds like they're missing out on whole worlds of great music that's not "just a back beat".
 
Last edited:
I think I see the disconnect. I am not a career drummer; I enjoy listening to, exploring, and making music. It seems like you've reduced music to a means of earning money. In my eyes that is a tragedy, and it is a sad outlook that I hope I never come to adopt. I don't mean offense by that; I know that realistically, certain things must be given up in making drumming profitable and appealing to the musically uninclined masses.

I'm not in it for ego or recognition and I don't like to be the center of attention. I regularly play mainstream music live and know that there is a time, place, and (admittedly niche) application for more complicated playing. I can't help but get bored with the dead-simple stuff. I'm always wanting to expand my horizons, explore more, learn more, and improve what I already know. For me, that has driven me towards more complicated music.

If getting the "well paid gig that's money beat simple" were their ultimate goal and satisfaction, snarky puppy would not exist... :unsure:

If that were really true, you'd be fired and your bandmates would replace you with this guy, who will always outdo you on keeping time.
View attachment 110439

How could you hold such a low view of drumming and not be ashamed to be a drummer?

Their loss. Sounds like they're missing out on whole worlds of great music that's not "just a back beat".

Thanks for the novel dude. I've got some quality bed time reading here. My but I'm an arteest alarm has gone off because you've contradicted yourself a few times there and you really don't seem to be able to realise work and play are two very different things. Your cage seems to have been rattled!

From what you're saying I can't help but think that you feel the need to prove yourself as a drummer. To what? or whom? are my questions and more importantly why?

If making money from your craft is a tragic, sad outlook on life you really have a lot to learn. No offence taken at all mate, I'm off on a city break to Europe in a couple of weeks all bought and paid for from gigging.
 
Last edited:
that were really true, you'd be fired and your bandmates would replace you with this guy, who will always outdo you on keeping time.
Ive played bass in bands all my life and all I ever wanted the drummer to do was keep solid time and sound good, and, to play the fill albeit how ever small which fitted the song . And dont ever forget. The crowd on the floor dont give a damn about "chops" and how clever you are around the kit.
 
Ive played bass in bands all my life and all I ever wanted the drummer to do was keep solid time and sound good, and, to play the fill albeit how ever small which fitted the song
Funnily enough that's all I want in a bassist. It's amazing how many drummers/bassists can't do that!
And dont ever forget. The crowd on the floor dont give a damn about "chops" and how clever you are around the kit.
Wise words. This guy needs to graduate from the gigging school of hard knocks.
 
And dont ever forget. The crowd on the floor dont give a damn about "chops" and how clever you are around the kit.
Not always true…at least in my “bar-room” experience. If you have a short solo the crowd quickly wakes up!
The crowd will include wannabes, other drummers from other bands, student drummers, rhythm appreciators/ dancers and the ex- high school marching band members and even stick twirlers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tob
Ive played bass in bands all my life and all I ever wanted the drummer to do was keep solid time and sound good, and, to play the fill albeit how ever small which fitted the song . And dont ever forget. The crowd on the floor dont give a damn about "chops" and how clever you are around the kit.

unless they are a crowd of people who want to see "chops" and how clever you are around the kit....

I think the bigger mistake/oversight/assumption by many in this argument is that ALL paying crowds only want to "dance to background music"

I have been to over 1000 shows in my life, and 90% of them have been attended by people who PAID to see "chops" and how clever you are around the kit....

when we start making absolutes out of subjective issues, is when we cross into the line of "being wrong"

i agree 100% with @Tob that the pursuit of music should not be reduced down to mindless robot like interpretation to gain payment...but also don't' deny that we have all been raised in a mind set where the attainment of money is more importnat than anything else (sadly) and realize that some people never break out of the mindset to use music as a money making tool

but to say that one mindset is the "right" one, or the most important one, is to really miss the point
 
  • Like!!
Reactions: Tob
can't help but think that you feel the need to prove yourself as a drummer.
Swing and a miss. Sorry if I come across that way.
If making money from your craft is a tragic, sad outlook on life you really have a lot to learn.
You know that's not what I said. Making money from playing music is fine. Reducing it to a means of making money is sad. Giving up creativity and expressiveness to make drumming more widely marketable is tragic.

keep solid time and sound good, and, to play the fill albeit how ever small which fitted the song
Ah, now the truth comes out. You had me worried for a bit there. So you admit there's more to drumming than keeping time.
And dont ever forget. The crowd on the floor dont give a damn about "chops" and how clever you are around the kit.
that's an awfully narrow-sighted view

Depends on the crowd, as mrfingers pointed out.

Who says any time music is made, it must be for the enjoyment of some audience? What about music for the sake of music? What about how a musician or group of musicians wants to express their musical taste regardless of who likes it or how profitable it is?

Don't conflate playing tastefully with ostentation. It's possible to play with excellence, taste, and flair without being obtrusive and overbearing.
 
Well clearly Im of a lower order here cause in all the years, bars, clubs, functions I ever played in I could have sworn I was hired to get them up on the floor dancing....and yes you might get the odd music afficionado who might mention the playing in the band but it was unusual.
 
Well clearly Im of a lower order here cause in all the years, bars, clubs, functions I ever played in I could have sworn I was hired to get them up on the floor dancing....and yes you might get the odd music afficionado who might mention the playing in the band but it was unusual.

well...if that is the only kind of gig you are looking for, than that will be your experience with the audiences

it doesn't make you lower order, but it does limit you to only seeing one kind of drumming expectation situation...and that is not wrong either.

in all my years, I have also been hired for those kind of gigs, as well as gigs where the audience was supposed to sit quietly and listen, or destroy each other in a "Wall of Death" mosh pit...and ALL of those experiences have the same amount validity as each other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tob
Well clearly Im of a lower order here cause in all the years, bars, clubs, functions I ever played in I could have sworn I was hired to get them up on the floor dancing....and yes you might get the odd music afficionado who might mention the playing in the band but it was unusual.
Man we've been doing it wrong all these years and still get hired. We must be bloody lucky!

It must be sitting at the back and not getting noticed ;)
Making money from playing music is fine. Reducing it to a means of making money is sad. Giving up creativity and expressiveness to make drumming more widely marketable is tragic.
It's just business my friend and there's that word again business. What's so hard to understand?

It's like hiring a painter to paint your ceilings white because that goes with the room and you come back and they've painted the Sistine Chapel. Completely over the top ruined your decor but they've expressed themselves creatively. You'd kick them out and make sure nobody ever hired them again!

Being a working musician is no different. Ever had a job where you had to do things that sucked?
 
Back
Top