Are overpriced drums worth it ? A Defence of mapex

I really like Yamaha drums myself, but I definately think that with kits like the Saturn (you could add Gretsch Renown, Pearl Session Studio Select and to a degree, Tama Starclassic W/B in there as well) makes one question just how much more money it is worth to spend to get a kit of any more perceived quality, badges and logo aside. I understand you pay more for a well-known brand, but I still feel, at least here in Europe, that paying about double the price for a Oak Custom Hybrid (which aren't even ranked as their top of the line kit) than a Mapex Saturn is somewhat questionable, just thinking about what you are actually getting for the money.

Then again, I had a Saturn myself, that I decided to sell. Reason? Well, they definately sounded awesome and looked the part. I got a great offer on them when I sold it that helped, of course. But there is just something about being proud of what you play and how you are being perceived when gigging, you would want to use something that you don't have any bad feelings or annotations about, at least if you are a gearhead like me, care (maybe a bit too much) about your equipment and have the money to get a high-end kit regardless. I constantly had to make conversations with other drummers that claimed Mapex made s**** drums, and just people in general that wanted to chit-chat and the main argument I would always try to sell; "well they are really good quality drums for the price". Sure, they really are. But it came to the point that I got a bit tired of it all, having to almost "defend" myself of why I bought the drums, since I definately could have afforded a high-end kit from another brand anyway. It's vain, I know, but as I also have a habit of switching kits every now and then, I decided I wanted to let them go for now.

My point to all this? I'm not sure... I would be proud to play that Yamaha kit if I already had paid for it, but I definately feel you pay a bit too much if you take into consideration the kits I mentioned in the first sentence. If money allows though, it's best to pick the kit you have your heart set on, all aspects considered, even if it means you pay more for it. At least that's how I feel about it now. Paying more for it just affects your wallet at the time of your purchase, you have to consider that you would like and be proud of this kit in the long run, so it might very well be worth it.
I can wholeheartedly agree with anything you say there. We all worry about making the wrong choice and ending up with a kit you find yourself having to defend. Personally , I don’t think we should have to defend out kits no matter what they are. But it’s certainly easy to assume a defensive position when you already feel like something is wrong with your kit. Now I’ve spent the money on the expensive kit , I can feel like I’ve ‘been there done that and got the t shirt’ so , if I where to go down in price to the mapex Saturn, I would not feel embarrassed, this is of course only true if I like the kit when it’s in my possession. And also this is not to say I’m willing to sell a Yamaha for a mapex haha. I’m keeping the Yamaha reguardless is a wicked drum.
 
I read through all of your posts in this thread and my head is spinning. I'm not bashing or belittling you in any way, but you are questioning yourself about your purchase, and using a breadth of examples that are more assumptive than valid. They cover a LOT of subjects that are much more complex than you seem to grasp fully at this point. Psychology, Economics, Marketing, Manufacturing, Production, Labor, Wages, and more. More so, you believe, as many do as well, China makes inferior products. Inferior companies make inferior products. Quality comes from the company, not the country.

I could actually sit and talk to you about all this for hours, but that's not possible. You bought a fine kit. One that most would love to have. Be happy, Be proud. Play it with the conviction that you had the moment you got them. The rest is just a waste of energy my friend!
Aye, this is why my original text serves more as an invitation for question and discussion - other than statement. However , it seems to be coming to a big shock to people that guys can spend a lot of money and not feel they have to relentlessly defend their purchase ! Maybe your head is spinning because it is expecting to see a Yamaha fan boy shit on everyone else’s kits and choices. But also as I have always said , I’m happy with my choice, in fact the comments on this post have solidified my feelings towards my kit. But I do feel like another company could do a kit just as well as that for the same, if not less money. And similar to you, I could sit and talk about this for hours !
 
This is the thing ! Drum companies over the years have shifted manufacturing. Those savings are never passed on to their customers. Instead they eat up the bigger profit Margin! If they didn’t gain out of it they wouldn’t bother moving in the first place. These companies will tell you they’re honest companies for the players - but at the top of them all there’s a man who’s only interest is BUISNESS.
Passing along the savings is an interesting concept. Thing is, companies arent pulling in cash hand over fist on a set of drums.

Materials must be sourced and purchased. That cost $$$. They must be delivered. More $$$. Materials must be prepared by machine and worker, $$$. Workers must be paid to build the drums, $$$. Drums must be packed and shipped, $$$. They now must be sent overseas on a ship. Gotta pay for that too. After being shipped, inspected, and unloaded (more $$$), they have to go on a truck and sent to distribution (stores, warehouses, more $$$ still). Once in store, inventory must be updated and drums must be advertised. Gotta pay someone to do that too. And if you order online, they gotta go back in a truck once again and delivered. And, you guessed it, that cost $$$ too.

So the $1000 (example) you spend on a new set of drums doesnt just go to the manufacturer. Its split like 100 times between everyone who has anything to do with that set of drums you bought. Be glad you pay what you do. They could easily charge more.
 
Nothing overpriced is worth it. They wouldn't be overpriced if they were worth it. And that is subjective. If my salary is 10 times yours, what I like is not in your budget so to you overpriced. Like clothing, shoes anything.
 
Q: Are overpriced drums worth it? A: No, they are overpriced.
Q: Are value priced drums worth it? A: Yes, they are value priced.
Q: Are drums that were overpriced new, but value priced now worth it? A: Yes, they are value priced.

I think it's all in how you set up the question. Some pricing is due to manufacturing techniques and time, labor, etc. Gretsch USA Customs as an example can go from what I would consider reasonable to outrageous depending on finishes. Same for DW and most other super high end drums.

With some manufacturers it's also the flavor of the day, so this year this mount is the ultimate in supreme engineering, next year it's something new. With other manufacturer, things just don't change that often, so some lines just don't age. This should be a consideration as well. Sometimes the worth of something is far more than just the original cost, but the usability or serviceability over time.
 
Passing along the savings is an interesting concept. Thing is, companies arent pulling in cash hand over fist on a set of drums.

Materials must be sourced and purchased. That cost $$$. They must be delivered. More $$$. Materials must be prepared by machine and worker, $$$. Workers must be paid to build the drums, $$$. Drums must be packed and shipped, $$$. They now must be sent overseas on a ship. Gotta pay for that too. After being shipped, inspected, and unloaded (more $$$), they have to go on a truck and sent to distribution (stores, warehouses, more $$$ still). Once in store, inventory must be updated and drums must be advertised. Gotta pay someone to do that too. And if you order online, they gotta go back in a truck once again and delivered. And, you guessed it, that cost $$$ too.

So the $1000 (example) you spend on a new set of drums doesnt just go to the manufacturer. Its split like 100 times between everyone who has anything to do with that set of drums you bought. Be glad you pay what you do. They could easily charge more.
I would love to know the true mark up of a drum kit! The way I see it. If mapex can make a 1200 kit and still make enough profit to warrant being in buisness, it makes me wonder how much more an alternative company is reaaaally spending To make a kit of a similar build that they claim is with more than 4 digits more than that ‘affordable’ kit.
 
Passing along the savings is an interesting concept. Thing is, companies arent pulling in cash hand over fist on a set of drums.

Materials must be sourced and purchased. That cost $$$. They must be delivered. More $$$. Materials must be prepared by machine and worker, $$$. Workers must be paid to build the drums, $$$. Drums must be packed and shipped, $$$. They now must be sent overseas on a ship. Gotta pay for that too. After being shipped, inspected, and unloaded (more $$$), they have to go on a truck and sent to distribution (stores, warehouses, more $$$ still). Once in store, inventory must be updated and drums must be advertised. Gotta pay someone to do that too. And if you order online, they gotta go back in a truck once again and delivered. And, you guessed it, that cost $$$ too.

So the $1000 (example) you spend on a new set of drums doesnt just go to the manufacturer. Its split like 100 times between everyone who has anything to do with that set of drums you bought. Be glad you pay what you do. They could easily charge more.

On the manufacturer’s side you forgot money must also be paid for medicare and med insurance for their workers, money must be factored in for warranty repair and damages from shipping, money for advertising so you bought them in the first place, money paid for rent on the buildings, insurance on the buildings, electricity for the buildings. The list goes on and on.

Let me ask this ... How much profit should a company make?
 
I have to admit, I know I'm in the wrong with this one.... I'm certain that Mapex makes a fine drum.

The Mapex branding and aesthetic do not sit well with me.

To start with, the name "Mapex" sounds like a brand of feminine hygiene products made by/for the fine people of Vermont.

Next is the faux-modern adornments that look like they were part of the 80's anime Robotech universe.

Last are the badges, which make it look like each individual drum has won a WWE title fight.
?
 
We read the situation backwards from each other:

I actually think they could have stuck consumers with a price increase to justify a multi-million dollar new facility. That's a big investment - granted it's shared between several of the lines of instruments - not just drums.

I can agree to an extent that are sterile - on some level that was part of the reason I left. I find that their drums are almost too perfect - not a lot of character: Kind of like what a "drum set" setting on a keyboard would sound like.

Now is it fair to complain about sounding good and amazing consistent? Probably not - but that's why I love Gretsch and Stone Custom Drums - there's an amazing amount of character with their instruments.
Yamaha = the Honda Civic/Toyota Camry of drums. hehe

In all honesty I'm sure they've made some good kits but I'd rather patronize a "real" drum company than some huge conglomerate.
 
By very definition nothing 'overpriced' is worth it as it's exactly that... Priced beyond it's worth and what is acceptable.

Now are expensive drums worth it? In my honest opinion, usually not.
 
The only honest response of any business owner should be this: As much as possible.

Which begs the question ... How much is possible?

I was hoping there would be some responses as a percentage. If I see enough I might even spill some secrets as I’m no longer bound.
 
By very definition nothing 'overpriced' is worth it as it's exactly that... Priced beyond it's worth and what is acceptable.

Now are expensive drums worth it? In my honest opinion, usually not.

I'll agree here overall -- not because I'm opposed to spending money but because I want to ensure that my money is put to practical use. There's a point at which "quality" becomes "absurdity." I could have a Pearl Masterworks kit custom built with bejeweled shells and solid-gold hardware, but what the hell would I do with it . . . put it on display at the Smithsonian? I play drums; I don't exhibit them. Sturdy construction and conspicuous construction are two different things.
 
On the manufacturer’s side you forgot money must also be paid for medicare and med insurance for their workers, money must be factored in for warranty repair and damages from shipping, money for advertising so you bought them in the first place, money paid for rent on the buildings, insurance on the buildings, electricity for the buildings. The list goes on and on.

Let me ask this ... How much profit should a company make?
In
The only honest response of any business owner should be this: As much as possible.
Reminds me of Boeing - being a great engineering company making great planes making a great profit was not enough for the new breed of management - it had to become a finance company that only made planes because it had to and considered engineers an inconvenience to making a higher profit margin every year. Enough was never enough - until the camel's back broke.
 
Which begs the question ... How much is possible?

I was hoping there would be some responses as a percentage. If I see enough I might even spill some secrets as I’m no longer bound.

How much profit is possible depends upon a multitude of factors: the nature of the business (service driven vs. product driven), the number of employees, the cost of operation, the degree of competition, and so on. All I mean by "as much as possible" is that no sane business person would set out to limit his or her profit margin. Making money isn't evil; doing it unethically is. Unfortunately, ethical can be a situational term.
 
In
Reminds me of Boeing - being a great engineering company making great planes making a great profit was not enough for the new breed of management - it had to become a finance company that only made planes because it had to and considered engineers an inconvenience to making a higher profit margin every year. Enough was never enough - until the camel's back broke.

Suffice it to say that I'm glad to have no stake in the airline industry.
 
On the manufacturer’s side you forgot money must also be paid for medicare and med insurance for their workers, money must be factored in for warranty repair and damages from shipping, money for advertising so you bought them in the first place, money paid for rent on the buildings, insurance on the buildings, electricity for the buildings. The list goes on and on.

Let me ask this ... How much profit should a company make?
a question I don’t know the answer to. However if a company can make money on a high spec Kit for £1300, then how much money is a company making on a £2300 kit, built in the same place , and built out of very similar materials. I hear the arguments from all sides , all raise very valid points
 
I would love to know the true mark up of a drum kit! The way I see it. If mapex can make a 1200 kit and still make enough profit to warrant being in buisness, it makes me wonder how much more an alternative company is reaaaally spending To make a kit of a similar build that they claim is with more than 4 digits more than that ‘affordable’ kit.
I dont know what their profit margins are, not even gonna speculate, but it isnt nearly as much as you think.

Mapex builds wooden tubes. The wood comes from a supplier. All the metal more than likely comes from a supplier. The paint comes from a supplier. Fasteners come from a supplier. Wraps probably come from a supplier. Hell, the glue they use comes from a supplier. That's what people dont seem to understand. Mapex is more than likely just a wood shop, paint, and assembly lines/tables. All the materials must be paid for. Mapex has to have shell builders, finishers, painters, and assemblers.

Finished drums go in a box. That comes from a supplier too and must be paid for.

Gotta pay for shipping too.

I used to do this for a living. The PA cabinets we would sell to Yamaha, a finished product, for less than $10 a cabinet. That $10 had to be split between 40 workers, all the materials, electricity to run the machines, propane for the fork/squeeze lifts, tools, rent on the building, so on and so forth.

That's how manufacturing works. No one builds anything anymore. Country of manufacture is moot. Those Yamaha cabinets I use to build, parts came from all over the world. They are Japanese cabinets assembled in USA by Hispanic workers, with parts from China, Indonesia, USA...you see where this is going?

On the manufacturer’s side you forgot money must also be paid for medicare and med insurance for their workers, money must be factored in for warranty repair and damages from shipping, money for advertising so you bought them in the first place, money paid for rent on the buildings, insurance on the buildings, electricity for the buildings. The list goes on and on.

I was getting there, I type slow!
 
I dont know what their profit margins are, not even gonna speculate, but it isnt nearly as much as you think.

Mapex builds wooden tubes. The wood comes from a supplier. All the metal more than likely comes from a supplier. The paint comes from a supplier. Fasteners come from a supplier. Wraps probably come from a supplier. Hell, the glue they use comes from a supplier. That's what people dont seem to understand. Mapex is more than likely just a wood shop, paint, and assembly lines/tables. All the materials must be paid for. Mapex has to have shell builders, finishers, painters, and assemblers.

Finished drums go in a box. That comes from a supplier too and must be paid for.

Gotta pay for shipping too.

I used to do this for a living. The PA cabinets we would sell to Yamaha, a finished product, for less than $10 a cabinet. That $10 had to be split between 40 workers, all the materials, electricity to run the machines, propane for the fork/squeeze lifts, tools, rent on the building, so on and so forth.

That's how manufacturing works. No one builds anything anymore. Country of manufacture is moot. Those Yamaha cabinets I use to build, parts came from all over the world. They are Japanese cabinets assembled in USA by Hispanic workers, with parts from China, Indonesia, USA...you see where this is going?



I was getting there, I type slow!
If only Someone here knew the true mark up of music gear.. *wink *wink. I would love to find out that the mark up on music gear was nice and low. Then I’d know I’m A consumer interested in the only industry I know of that don’t have big mark ups. However , I’m just certain that’s not the case
 
On the manufacturer’s side you forgot money must also be paid for medicare and med insurance for their workers, money must be factored in for warranty repair and damages from shipping, money for advertising so you bought them in the first place, money paid for rent on the buildings, insurance on the buildings, electricity for the buildings. The list goes on and on.

Let me ask this ... How much profit should a company make?
Let’s not forget how profit makers likely invest a lot of their profit and gain significant wealth that way. And then you got investors in the company in question. However don’t examine me on my knowledge in that ethos !
 
Back
Top