Jeremy Bender
Platinum Member
Interesting video discussing their knowledge of theory at the time of writing and recording...
Interesting content, Jeremy. It's important to keep in mind that sometimes application trumps theory, not the other way around. I've collaborated with great musicians who can't identify time signatures but who execute them with immense expertise nevertheless. I've also worked with a few phenomenal guitarists who don't know the difference between C and G. They dominate the guitar neck but can't label its notes. You don't need in-depth knowledge of theory to be a competent musician. You just need to be able to play.
Interesting video discussing their knowledge of theory at the time of writing and recording...
Interesting content, Jeremy. It's important to keep in mind that sometimes application trumps theory, not the other way around. I've collaborated with great musicians who can't identify time signatures but who execute them with immense expertise nevertheless. I've also worked with a few phenomenal guitarists who don't know the difference between C and G. They dominate the guitar neck but can't label its notes. You don't need in-depth knowledge of theory to be a competent musician. You just need to be able to play.
That's pretty cool - I think the more interesting thing to think about is how big of an influence they had in music in general compared to their knowledge of theory. It's a funny thought that someone who has very basic theory concepts down can be such a heavy influence for popular music for decades and basically alter the history of music in general. I guess that speaks to trying to quantize art.
I have to be honest - I only think this true to a certain extent. I've been in PAINFUL sessions with song keys need to be changed and people can't keep up because they don't know their theory - and those are the people that don't get calls back.
Not to say that there aren't good players that don't know a lot of theory - but professionals who take the time to learn and study what they are doing will always have a leg up in navigating songs or the speed in which they learn new songs or compose solos, etc. Unless you're talking about an absolute freak of nature - which totally exist - that have perfect ears.
Music is a language - it really is - and if you don't understand grammar, or spelling, etc...then you really can't speak or write effectively - or AS effectively as someone who does.
I know you aren't saying that you shouldn't learn theory - but I think it's important to recognize the work and talent of people that do put in the work to learn and do put in the time to effectively put it into practice.
Yes you can be competent ENOUGH - but you could be so much moreso with some work.
This is always a point of point I have in clinics or when we do workshops - there's SO much more freedom that you can explore when you understand the structure of what you are doing....whether that be time signatures or chords, etc. If you know that you are XY key and XY mode or XY scale can get you from point A to point B and then you can transcend that and put AB scale or chord over it because theory has taught you why that makes sense....you're so much better than someone feeling their way through it and happening to hit good stuff every now and then.
Not saying you can't write a beautiful song without knowing what you're doing....but I'm speaking more from a player perspective.
EDIT:
one final thought:
The above is probably less true for drummers - but very true for instruments with actual notes haha
I agree all around. Don't get me wrong; knowing theory is generally a big boost to your expertise and flexibility as a musician. I've spent years studying it myself and would never discourage anyone from doing so. There are no disadvantages to theoretical mastery in my book. It's a valuable boost to one's musical makeup.
At the same time, I've encountered musicians who are all theory and no feel, just as I've come across others who are all feel and no theory. I'd rather play with the all feel guys, though the ideal is to possess both attributes in equal proportion.
Funny you mention this. I know a guitar player I cant work with because of this. He is a theory genius, and plays pretty spectacularly. He is so stuck in theory he cant let it go and just play. Everything must be analyzed, made to fit something theory wise, disassembled, reconstructed differently, rearranged, blag blah blah. And he thinks I have any idea what he is talking about. I thought he was calling me a retard one day when he just wanted a section to slow down. It's too bad because I like the guy but just cant work with him.
EXCELLENT !!! Thanks for the treat!Interesting video discussing their knowledge of theory at the time of writing and recording...
Scales are what you scrape off fish before you eat them.Steve Harris. I know what "crotchet and a quaver" is, but that's about it.
On scales
I don't know what scales are.
Of course, George Martin decided that Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields needed editing out of Sergeant Pepper. A fine example of over-thinking.Louis Prima asked if he could read music. His reply, "I can read a little bit, but not enough to hurt me." I think that sums it up. Theory is just that....theory. We could all sit around for hours discussing how to do this, does this note add to or take away from blah blah blah, what if I play an arpeggio in C and you're in a minor scale. Do my triplets clash with the 8th notes you're playing? To my knowledge, none of the Beatles studied music theory, they were just great innovators and musicians. George Martin who produced them however is a different story. I maintain that orchestras, and big bands need scores to keep 30 or so people on the "same page" so to speak. A group of 3, 4 or even 10 musicians playing rock, pop, country, jazz, etc., just need unity through improvisational rehearsals and agreement on the outcome. If you want to write it all out for posterity or because you have a bad memory go ahead. Ask yourself. Am I a musician or a reader? Do I really need to intellectualize the music experience or just enjoy it as an art form?
Up until a couple of years ago I visited a remote Aboriginal Community in central outback Australia every few months for 6 years. English is their second and sometimes their 3rd language. I had the priviledge to jam with a lot of the community musicians on occasions , bass, 6 string electric or acoustic and drums. They were an amazing talented group who would create and sing their own compositions in their own language ( Pitjantjatjara - a central Australian dialect) None of it was written down . All played by ear and memory. They played, a bit of rock, reggae, metal, country - all with equal expertise. Communication in the sessions was interesting to say the least- they spoke virtually no English, I spoke virtually no Pitjantjatjara. We would jam for 30 mins or so then they would swap instruments. They were a bit amazed initially when they learnt I only played drums - not guitar or bass as well.Interesting content, Jeremy. It's important to keep in mind that sometimes application trumps theory, not the other way around. I've collaborated with great musicians who can't identify time signatures but who execute them with immense expertise nevertheless. I've also worked with a few phenomenal guitarists who don't know the difference between C and G. They dominate the guitar neck but can't label its notes. You don't need in-depth knowledge of theory to be a competent musician. You just need to be able to play.
What a bunch of BS. There's no way, absolutely no way a group of people that can't speak each others language well enough to have deep conversation, can't or won't read music, refuse to even think about time signature, arpeggios, major versus minor key orchestration, or how polyrhythmic variations affect the eating habits of the non aboriginal community can "magically" play music in a cohesive way. Either you're not being honest or there was something else going on prior to your group's playing together. AND you claim everyone swapped instruments? Are you crazy? What you claim is utterly impossible without years of formal training and even then many people would just end up quitting due to the extreme difficulty of understanding how music works. You can't do music without a degree, and that degree tells you/us at what level your music ability really is. Quit telling such tall tales. You're not fooling any of us. You have to be formally trained to play music. Much like Keith Richards.Up until a couple of years ago I visited a remote Aboriginal Community in central outback Australia every few months for 6 years. English is their second and sometimes their 3rd language. I had the priviledge to jam with a lot of the community musicians on occasions , bass, 6 string electric or acoustic and drums. They were an amazing talented group who would create and sing their own compositions in their own language ( Pitjantjatjara - a central Australian dialect) None of it was written down . All played by ear and memory. They played, a bit of rock, reggae, metal, country - all with equal expertise. Communication in the sessions was interesting to say the least- they spoke virtually no English, I spoke virtually no Pitjantjatjara. We would jam for 30 mins or so then they would swap instruments. They were a bit amazed initially when they learnt I only played drums - not guitar or bass as well.
Music is a language - it really is - and if you don't understand grammar, or spelling, etc...then you really can't speak or write effectively - or AS effectively as someone who does.