DrummersAreMusicians
Junior Member
While shopping online for a dry ride cymbal with a woody stick sound, I was shocked to discover how closely the weight of the cymbals corresponded to the sound my ears heard. The correspondence was so close that I can almost recommend buying ride cymbals by weight alone.
Here's what I did: I focused on 20" old A Zildjians, thinking I should find what I wanted in a vintage cymbal for cheap, although I also looked at the newer K Zildjians labeled dry, since these are designed for drummers looking for the dry sound. Of course, a few other contenders by different makers popped up too. In any event, I made a list of every cymbal I found with a sound file on various sites, and made notes about each that included weight, price, and my general impression of the sound. In the end, I had a list with notes of 12 old A Zildjians and 5 newer K dry Zildjians, as well as a half dozen or so cymbals by other makers.
Upon analyzing my list later, I was astonished to see that the A Zildjians that appealed to me had similar weights (between 2646 and 2724 grams, or an average of 2681) while those that didn't appeal to me had measurably different weights (between 2188 and 2455 grams for an average of 2352). Even more shocking was that the smaller sample of K Zildjians I liked had an average weight of 2642, only 39 grams different from the average weight of the A Zildjians I liked. With the K's, which are heavier on the average, those I didn't like were heavier, an average of 3083 grams.
Crazy about this is that presumably there are lots of differences in the manufacturing of the old A and the newer K cymbals, but those differences didn't matter much to my ears. Oh, they did matter a little. I really liked one slightly lighter weight K at 2341 grams, which was about the average of the A's I didn't like. Also, the few I liked from non-Zildjian manufacturers had an slightly lighter average weight of 2352 grams. There's therefore something to the differences in manufacturing. However, within the same mass produced cymbal company, the weight of cymbals the same diameter seems all you need to know to judge the sound.
To the issue of my ears, which I doubt are the most refined, I was also surprised that I was able to discriminate between different weight cymbals based on listening alone. (That is, I listened to the sound files first, and only later calculated the relationship between my subjective impression and cymbal weights.) In my case, it appears that I can hear about a 10% difference from my prefered weight. Assuming, that is, that I like a cymbal weight about 2650 grams, cymbals that weigh less than 2385 or more than 2915 grams stand out to me as sounding different from what I'm looking for. Cymbals within this plus or minus 10% range are frankly difficult for me to discriminate among by sound alone. My ear starts to turn to mush and I'm less confident in my judgments. I suppose though this just means that I can probably live with any cymbal close to my target weight, which makes sense.
To another issue that is often mentioned, I didn't find listening to different sound files recorded differently with different drummers much of a problem. Oh, there are differences. (For the life of me I don't know why people would demo dry rides by bashing them, when that's not how you play a dry ride, and I sure wish demo drummers would play the bell less.) However, I found that my judgments were consistent across different sound files.
Mostly, though, while I'd be hesitant to buy any cymbal without at least hearing a sound file, my shopping experience persuades me that you can darn near buy cymbals by the gram and get what you want.
Tentative disclaimer: I was only searching for a dry ride. Weight may be a less useful indicator for a washy ride, and I suspect it is. Whereas washy rides are almost always lighter, the color of the wash may vary by factors besides weight. It's just that in my search for a dry ride I was shocked by how closely weight and sound corresponded.
Here's what I did: I focused on 20" old A Zildjians, thinking I should find what I wanted in a vintage cymbal for cheap, although I also looked at the newer K Zildjians labeled dry, since these are designed for drummers looking for the dry sound. Of course, a few other contenders by different makers popped up too. In any event, I made a list of every cymbal I found with a sound file on various sites, and made notes about each that included weight, price, and my general impression of the sound. In the end, I had a list with notes of 12 old A Zildjians and 5 newer K dry Zildjians, as well as a half dozen or so cymbals by other makers.
Upon analyzing my list later, I was astonished to see that the A Zildjians that appealed to me had similar weights (between 2646 and 2724 grams, or an average of 2681) while those that didn't appeal to me had measurably different weights (between 2188 and 2455 grams for an average of 2352). Even more shocking was that the smaller sample of K Zildjians I liked had an average weight of 2642, only 39 grams different from the average weight of the A Zildjians I liked. With the K's, which are heavier on the average, those I didn't like were heavier, an average of 3083 grams.
Crazy about this is that presumably there are lots of differences in the manufacturing of the old A and the newer K cymbals, but those differences didn't matter much to my ears. Oh, they did matter a little. I really liked one slightly lighter weight K at 2341 grams, which was about the average of the A's I didn't like. Also, the few I liked from non-Zildjian manufacturers had an slightly lighter average weight of 2352 grams. There's therefore something to the differences in manufacturing. However, within the same mass produced cymbal company, the weight of cymbals the same diameter seems all you need to know to judge the sound.
To the issue of my ears, which I doubt are the most refined, I was also surprised that I was able to discriminate between different weight cymbals based on listening alone. (That is, I listened to the sound files first, and only later calculated the relationship between my subjective impression and cymbal weights.) In my case, it appears that I can hear about a 10% difference from my prefered weight. Assuming, that is, that I like a cymbal weight about 2650 grams, cymbals that weigh less than 2385 or more than 2915 grams stand out to me as sounding different from what I'm looking for. Cymbals within this plus or minus 10% range are frankly difficult for me to discriminate among by sound alone. My ear starts to turn to mush and I'm less confident in my judgments. I suppose though this just means that I can probably live with any cymbal close to my target weight, which makes sense.
To another issue that is often mentioned, I didn't find listening to different sound files recorded differently with different drummers much of a problem. Oh, there are differences. (For the life of me I don't know why people would demo dry rides by bashing them, when that's not how you play a dry ride, and I sure wish demo drummers would play the bell less.) However, I found that my judgments were consistent across different sound files.
Mostly, though, while I'd be hesitant to buy any cymbal without at least hearing a sound file, my shopping experience persuades me that you can darn near buy cymbals by the gram and get what you want.
Tentative disclaimer: I was only searching for a dry ride. Weight may be a less useful indicator for a washy ride, and I suspect it is. Whereas washy rides are almost always lighter, the color of the wash may vary by factors besides weight. It's just that in my search for a dry ride I was shocked by how closely weight and sound corresponded.
