Swap 1.6mm hoops for 2.3mm?

[edvia]

I'm primarily a Gretsch guy, but my bop kit is a Yamaha Stage Custom Birch BeBop (8x12 tom, 13x14 floor, 15x18 bass). The drums sound great, especially for what I paid for them. However I have a slight issue with keeping the floor tom in tune.

Unfortunately, Yamaha felt they needed to save a few bucks by putting only 6 lugs per side on the floor tom instead of the usual 8, and that combined with 1.6mm hoops means that tuning stability has been difficult. My tuning style is to always maintain even tension all around the head, and at the higher jazz tunings I use with this kit, it quickly becomes apparent when any part of the head loses tension (I hear a slight downward pitch bend when this happens). I'm guessing that with fewer tension points around the hoop/head, the thin 1.6mm hoops just flex too much to maintain consistent tension all the way around.

So I'm wondering if upgrading to thicker hoops will help solve this. Given that it's a 14" with only 6 lugs, the only other hoop I've been able to find that will fit is a 2.3mm hoop from Gibraltar. I'm sure it will make SOME difference. I'm just wondering if it will make enough of a difference to make the purchase worthwhile. They're only about $18 each, so it's not that big of an investment, but if it doesn't make a noticeable difference, I'd just as well not spend the money.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[KarlCrafton]

last year, I had some drums re-worked and changed the hoops to 2.3's (from the 1.6's), and I kinda noticed a difference in sound.
Not a lot, but, after owning these drums for 20+ years, I noticed a little difference. To get "what I had before", I used a clear head on the bottom instead of a coated. It was only that much change.

A heavier/stiffer hoop might help solve the tension change issue.

I'd look at the tension rods to see if they have any play in them.
I they skimped on them for that line, a change to better rods will help too. Fortunately, that's not a big expense with only 12.

Good luck!

 

[JosephDAqui]

I had a Yamaha stage custom (7pc) that I did this to and the 2.3's make a world of difference in tuning. As for sound, I noticed the toms were more pronounced and powerful afterwards.

I purchased them from http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/. Hope that helps.

 

[edvia]

last year, I had some drums re-worked and changed the hoops to 2.3's (from the 1.6's), and I kinda noticed a difference in sound.
Not a lot, but, after owning these drums for 20+ years, I noticed a little difference. To get "what I had before", I used a clear head on the bottom instead of a coated. It was only that much change.

A heavier/stiffer hoop might help solve the tension change issue.

I'd look at the tension rods to see if they have any play in them.
I they skimped on them for that line, a change to better rods will help too. Fortunately, that's not a big expense with only 12.

Good luck!

Thanks, I'm definitely leaning toward replacing the hoops with the 2.3s. I just tried a slightly different tuning from before, and the tuning is 100% dialed in right now. I'll see how it holds up the next time I rehearse with my jazz trio on Monday. If it goes out of tune again, I'll definitely replace them. Of course I'm very particular about my tuning, so I tend to notice even the slightest detuning on any given lug.

I never thought about tension rods, but they seem to be fine so I don't think they're the culprit.

I had a Yamaha stage custom (7pc) that I did this to and the 2.3's make a world of difference in tuning. As for sound, I noticed the toms were more pronounced and powerful afterwards.

I purchased them from http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/. Hope that helps.

That's good to know. As I mentioned, I'm definitely leaning toward replacing them. And even though I've never had an issue with the 12" tom, I'd likely just go ahead and replace those as well. We'll see after my next rehearsal.

BTW thanks for the link. They have some 14"/6-lug hoops for $10.34 each, which is a great price. They also have the same in Gibraltar hoops for $13.49, which is about $5/hoop less than I'd seen them elsewhere. But unfortunately they're out of the Gibraltars.

So which hoops did you buy from them, the Gibraltars or the "no names" (I'm guessing they're their own brand?)?

 

[porter]

So which hoops did you buy from them, the Gibraltars or the "no names" (I'm guessing they're their own brand?)?

I've bough DFD's generic brand before and the hoop was as one would expect a hoop to be. If you're willing to pay a few extra bucks for the implied "quality increase", then get the Gibraltar. I wouldn't worry about either.

Two more things given the problem you described–I find that Evans and Aquarian heads keep their tuning better than Remo, so if you're using Remo, you might try out one or two other heads. Also, if you think the problem is detuning, try some of the cheap little clear plastic rectangular lug locks somewhere– they do work well for keeping hoop tension (if the head itself is detuning then that's obviously a different problem).

 

[edvia]

I've bough DFD's generic brand before and the hoop was as one would expect a hoop to be. If you're willing to pay a few extra bucks for the implied "quality increase", then get the Gibraltar. I wouldn't worry about either.

Two more things given the problem you described–I find that Evans and Aquarian heads keep their tuning better than Remo, so if you're using Remo, you might try out one or two other heads. Also, if you think the problem is detuning, try some of the cheap little clear plastic rectangular lug locks somewhere– they do work well for keeping hoop tension (if the head itself is detuning then that's obviously a different problem).

I'm sure the generic DFD hoops are fine, so I'll likely just go with those. As for heads, I actually do use Remos. But as I mentioned, I'm primarily a Gretsch player, and my other two kits are Gretsch with die cast hoops (and Remo heads). I don't have any tuning issues with those kits, so I don't think I can place the blame on Remo. Lug locks could also be a solution, but I think I'd rather tackle the problem (if the problem is indeed the 1.6mm hoops) than put a band-aid on it, since it wouldn't be an overly expensive fix.

 

[edvia]

BTW, here a pic of the kit. It really is a nice little jazz kit, just wish they put 8 lugs per side on the floor tom. Speaking of, having 6 lugs per side on the bass drum hasn't been an issue.

 

[2bsticks]

I am pondering the same thing. I picked up a small little kit and the 10" tom is giving me fits. It has the 1.6 hoops, also the tuning screws are short so I'm limited with head choice. Currently I have coated ambassadors on the kit. The 14" floor tom does have only 6 screws but I'm not having too much trouble with that drum.
Let me know if you have some success upgrading your rims.

 

[edvia]

I am pondering the same thing. I picked up a small little kit and the 10" tom is giving me fits. It has the 1.6 hoops, also the tuning screws are short so I'm limited with head choice. Currently I have coated ambassadors on the kit. The 14" floor tom does have only 6 screws but I'm not having too much trouble with that drum.
Let me know if you have some success upgrading your rims.

Just happened to see this. I did end up going with the 2.3 mm Gibraltar hoops on my floor tom, both top and bottom. And yes, it did solve my tuning issue. Before, no matter how evenly I got the lugs all the way around, it just always sounded slightly out of tune, like a subtle downward pitch bend (which I don't like). But now it's fairly easy to get the tuning dialed in, and the tone stays true—that pitch bend is completely gone.

I also noticed a slightly "purer" tone (i.e. fewer overtones), though the difference was fairly subtle. And since my 12" tom sounded good, I ended up leaving the 1.6 mm hoops on that one.

All in all, if you're having issues with your 10", I think it's worth a shot.