band member 'awareness'

[Anon La Ply]

So, maybe you don't look around at your band or they at you.

Not that at all. As a professional who kept his gear in gig-worthy shape he just expected other professionals to do the same when they took the stage. We're talking about the world of jazz and players constantly gigging with different musicians.

It's not at all like having your own band with all the developing friendships - no one gives a sheet about you. They have one question - "Can you play?", and they don't mean simple stuff.

J, correct me if I've misread your scene but that's what I've gathered from jazzers I've known. Just that I often see these disconnects here between players in different scenes.

Yep.

But not everyone in the band cares what it is you're using to get that sound.

Exactly how I and others in my band feel.

My crew are too polite to say anything but if, say, I'm having trouble getting the sound I want from my snare or tom I'll sometimes mention it. Sometimes they say, "I thought it sounded okay" and sometimes they don't say anything, which means they agree that the sound is off but from my comment they figure I'll get it in hand.

 

[opentune]

It's not at all like having your own band with all the developing friendships - no one gives a sheet about you. They have one question - "Can you play?", and they don't mean simple stuff.
.

Well thats the way it shoudl be, but I would think those folks are pretty good listeners, and could tell you changed your ride cymbal between sets.

I agree with you about 'scene' one is in. Presumably people are hearing differently in the band in small group jazz vs. power trio metal.

 

[Anon La Ply]

I agree with you about 'scene' one is in. Presumably people are hearing differently in the band in small group jazz vs. power trio metal.

Bear in mind that with small groups it's different. Once you have a five piece there's a lot going on and, really, I'm flat out just getting everything set up, catching up with everyone and getting my playing where I want it.

I think they'd only notice a new ride cymbal if it intruded. Since I don't always play things the same way, they might just figure I was choosing a different ride for the moment - or tapping closer or further from the bell than usual. Thing is, player input makes such a huge difference that a kit can sound entirely different in the hands of another musician. I've even seen this on piano, where a master player plays after a regular player and makes it sound like he's playing a different piano. It depends on the way people use the resonance of an instrument.

I had some drum lessons and the snare on the student kit was diabolical. Worst sounding drum in the known universe. A total vomit box. Anyway, I whinged about it so we swapped. Suddenly, with the teacher playing it sounded almost okay.

This brings us to good days and bad days. On my best days I'm playing the notes in just the right spot dynamically and tonally. Playing laid back music if I tap my snare just one inch closer to the centre (I like tapping about 2-3" in from the edge in this music) it makes a huge difference, almost as much as if I used a different snare.

So it's going to take a big change for anyone in the band to pick up that I have new gear.

Sorry for the long post but I want to clear up any misunderstandings. Just that I disagree with both the the assumption that players who don't notice only care about themselves and the assumption that those who do are only into gear.

Often people can't be bothered thinking about it. If everything sounds good they don't much care why.

 

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Often people can't be bothered thinking about it. If everything sounds good they don't much care why.

Pretty much my angle Pol. The sound is "the end" the gear or technique used is "the means to the end." As long as the end is in order, I don't much care about the means.

When I invite people over for dinner, I'm just happy to see 'em get there......I'll seldom ask which way they came.

 

[opentune]

When I invite people over for dinner, I'm just happy to see 'em get there......I'll seldom ask which way they came.

Sure enough, but my guess is you might pay attention to what they maybe brought over to drink.
I would.....

 

[Anon La Ply]

Pretty much my angle Pol. The sound is "the end" the gear or technique used is "the means to the end." As long as the end is in order, I don't much care about the means.

When I invite people over for dinner, I'm just happy to see 'em get there......I'll seldom ask which way they came.

I like that analogy.

Just thinking, in my last comment I said one inch difference in the spot I played my snare would make a huge difference. I think more like 2-3" ... must have gotten caught up in the moment

On the other side, I respect a player's attention to detail if they pick up small changes in my setup but I don't expect it. As you said before, it's no biggie for me either.

Opentune, rest assured, Pocket would be VERY interested in what they brought to drink lol

 

[opentune]

Sorry for the long post but I want to clear up any misunderstandings. Just that I disagree with both the the assumption that players who don't notice only care about themselves and the assumption that those who do are only into gear.

I'm with you there. Wasn't my particular assumption, but only that the difference in itself is interesting. Just how people are, behaviour,perception, in and outside a band setting. As somebody above said, maybe less ego or individualism in the drummer of a band compared to say vocals and guitar.

 

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Sure enough, but my guess is you might pay attention to what they maybe brought over to drink.
I would.....

Guilty as charged sir. It appears you know me too well. Never let it be said that I'd leave you to ease your way through that bottle all by yourself.

Just thinking, in my last comment I said one inch difference in the spot I played my snare would make a huge difference. I think more like 2-3" ... must have gotten caught up in the moment

Every inch counts Pol.

Opentune, rest assured, Pocket would be VERY interested in what they brought to drink lol

I just might resemble that.

 

[Anon La Ply]

I'm with you there. Wasn't my particular assumption, but only that the difference in itself is interesting. Just how people are, behaviour,perception, in and outside a band setting. As somebody above said, maybe less ego or individualism in the drummer of a band compared to say vocals and guitar.

I'm okay with vocalists being caught up in their own thing.

A couple of years ago, due to a range of circumstances I ended up having to sing with the band for an hour and a half of a rehearsal while another drummer was on the kit. You'd think I'd be more drum focused than most singers but I honestly didn't notice the drums unless the beat wavered or it got too loud.

I don't know ... you're out there selling the song and you have to be so into it that only disturbances in the flow take you out of that reverie. It takes a certain kind of person to be a singer (as we all know , which is cool since it takes a certain type of person to be a drummer too - as a rule, we're a pretty lively bunch.

 

[Bad Tempered Clavier]

I notice their changes in gear instantly [. . .] I'd like to think many musicians in bands have pretty good ears for details.

I notice when a guitarist has new strings, leads, or even picks: same with everyone else in the band. I don't think it's a great surprise that many people on this forum would be interested in gear generally - after all why else would one join a music-based forum and talk about it with complete strangers?

It could be argued that in certain situations drummers tend to use their own gear more often and therefore are more mindful of gear generally. I've been in bands where the guitarist/bass player used rehearsal room amps exclusively and a shared backline for gigs. In one band the guitarist had an amp but hadn't seen it for a couple of years and eventually had to get it back off the bloke he'd lent it to. I imagine this is common in cities (like London) where parking - and driving in general - are something of an arseache. However, in such bands I would always be using my own snare, cymbals, and usually hardware - so I would have more stuff in the room that was mine than they did - i.e. one guitar each.

It varies from band to band. One guitarist I played with had gorgeous gear and took a close interest in mine. Another was the opposite and in fact turned up to our 1st gig without a pick. Luckily I always carry a pick in my wallet for this very reason.

 

[Nuka]

I was in a band with my mates a while back and our lead guitarist was my drum tech (I was very much the band manager) and he and his gf (at the time our keyboardist) loved my kit. If I didn't bring something, or brought more along they'd notice and they asked what I was thinking in terms of additions or changed constantly.

Also in one of my other bands the guys noticed if I changed anything, but that's because I have... unusual habits when it comes to my setups and finding old drums in studios to use that don't match and I don't have enough hardware for.

But all my other experience it's just "meh just hit things and keep in time" they don't care if I'm playing a £100 or a £1,000 kit, so long as I keep a solid beat that they can show off their latest Atlas, Gibson, Les Paul or Fender off to...

 

[Andy]

For the record, my band members notice even the smallest change in my sound, whether the reason's a gear change, or tuning, or dynamic. Moreover, they all make highly informed observations & suggestions as to alternative sounds when there's something they're not happy with, or instantly highlight something they do like. By paying some attention to the small stuff, especially each other's stuff, the overall sound/vibe improves exponentially. Non of that is gear nerding, it's called attention to detail.

Noticing someone's got a new piece of gear is an irrelevance, but, in a band environment, noticing a change in sound, shows an intimate knowledge of the fabric of your collective sound. Can we separate gear nerding from musical listening skills/awareness please, as they have little connection to each other.

In Anon's journeyman scenario, it's a different game. As each player isn't part of a long term collaboration, the focus is exclusively on correct performance of the piece.

 

[Anon La Ply]

Dunno about that, Andy.

I am in a band full of scientist types and they experiment a lot. Not easy to get them to stick to a part. I hear enough different things from week to week irregardless of new gear or not.

Now that you guys are talking about new strings, there have been times when I've felt our guitarist's tone was a bit dull or especially nice. Never thought about strings, though. As I said before, if I hear something different I assume it's the playing or tone adjustments.

 

[Chunky]

For the record, my band members notice even the smallest change in my sound, whether the reason's a gear change, or tuning, or dynamic. Moreover, they all make highly informed observations & suggestions as to alternative sounds when there's something they're not happy with, or instantly highlight something they do like. By paying some attention to the small stuff, especially each other's stuff, the overall sound/vibe improves exponentially. Non of that is gear nerding, it's called attention to detail.

Noticing someone's got a new piece of gear is an irrelevance, but, in a band environment, noticing a change in sound, shows an intimate knowledge of the fabric of your collective sound. Can we separate gear nerding from musical listening skills/awareness please, as they have little connection to each other.

In Anon's journeyman scenario, it's a different gam
e. As each player isn't part of a long term collaboration, the focus is exclusively on correct performance of the piece.

Why can't I make my point as well as that?

And yeah Polly, if your guitaris sound dull it'll be 'cos the strings are 'dead'. New bass strings sound phenomonal too.
My band members pointed out last night that my bass deum sounded flat. they were right, the head is deader than dead and I need to replace it.

Where not gear nerds in the sense that we're instantly impressed with new gear. we just notice when something sounds good or bad and everyone will say what they think about it which I think is the icing on the cake to the overall sound.

It does annoy me if other musicians don't notice this stuff because I feel it's pretty basic and very important.
It frustrates me recordong bands and I'll try a few different sounds and they just nod their head at every one of them and i know they can't even tell the difference.

It puts a barrier up for me.

That's just the way i feel about it.
obviously if you're playing with different musicians everynight it's going to be different but, the musicians should still notice if your sound is good as well as your playing.

 

[SquadLeader]

I've been in several different bands now. Very seldom do the members notice changes to my kit at practice - lets say new or different hats, ride, crashes, snare depth/kind, heads, smaller kick drum, or ported kick drum...etc . I end up having to tell them afterward that changes were made. But I notice their changes in gear instantly.
Maybe I'm invisible, or maybe drummers are just more aware?
I'd like to think many musicians in bands have pretty good ears for details.

Yup...drummers are a pretty selfless lot.
I use electric drums and they're normally adjusted to a heavy rock setting.
We were trying a new self-penned song on Wednesday evening at rehearsal's and I set the drums to a brushes style setting...nice mellow bass drum, very gentle and smooth snare.
None of them had a fucking clue
Idiots.... )

 

[SquadLeader]

After all these years as a drummer, I've come to a conclusion... Most times (unless it's a situation where the band has a "musical director" or band leader), we drummers are more band-minded, while guitarists and vocalists are kind of just off in their own little self-absorbed world. I'm not sure why this is, but it is in many cases. Maybe it's because drummers are always given that "drummers aren't real musicians" bs, so we (subconsciously?) go above and beyond to prove that we're more than just cavemen pounding on things behind the real talent. And this is not just sour grapes on my part. It's just how it is.

+1
Absolutely spot on

 

[Larry]

Nobody notices my stuff either. I notice theirs all the time. Whatever. Goes w/ the territory. As long as I keep getting the call, I'm good.

 

[KarlCrafton]

Playing small group jazz, the other musicians always comment about the "sound" I'm
getting because they like it. These unsolicited comments are very appreciated as I have spent a lot of time and money trying to achieve a particular sound suited to these groups.

This how it is for me in my bands. I get it from FOH people too.

My first post was more of "from an audience/non-drummer perspective".
I still sound like me when I play other kits, and at festivals, I use my snare and cymbals.

I get in the bands I do, and the gigs I get in the first place because of my sound and gear as well. The ability to do the job is #1, but it has to sound good too at any level over a knock around & have fun situation where it's just for the fun of it.

I know a 20x26 is not any sort of "usual", but everyone I've ever worked with has loved it (and the other, shorter 26's as well). Never a complaint from a sound person either.

It's funny, because I was at a show hanging out with the bass player (of one band, and singer of another--same guy), and, out of the blue he said. "Look at that kit, it looks like kid drums", "why would you want a dinky kit like that?"

They were just normal sized drums (nice Ludwig kit), and sounded good to me, but they weren't as present sounding as my drums are at all.

The guy's in my new trio LOVE the sound of my stuff. Anything I use.
That gets hard when you try to compare cymbal or drum "A", with cymbal or drum "B" though.
Then I'll get "...it sounds like your snare", or "I don't know, it just sounds awesome".

Good "problem" to have I guess

 

[hvymtlmike]

I don't know why that would be that they weren't noticing. Everyone in our band notices everything. We pay close attention to each others gear, not to mention we brag just about everytime we change someting since it's a close knit group of friends. I assumed that was natural.

 

[zambizzi]

The guys in my current band notice just about everything about my drums and drumming, now that we've played together for a while. After a few shows, they noticed that I clearly tune mine differently than other drummers we've encountered on the local scene. As far as brand, or specific details, not so much. Sound guys consistently compliment me on my drum sound, as well. Ludwig makes it easy to sound good! My boys WON'T let me play my 22" kick though...only the 24" will do, even though both are great. I also tried sneaking my 402 in, on a gig. As soon as I brought the Black Beauty back out, both said they liked it a lot better.