DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-10-2009, 10:59 PM
CJM CJM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 79
Default how to use Stick Control

How do people use it? how do teachers recommend using it? Stone says do each exercise 20 times and move on. But at what speeds should you be proficient before moving on?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-10-2009, 11:09 PM
Monica McCoy's Avatar
Monica McCoy Monica McCoy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 480
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

My teacher had me focus on one half of a page per week.

Goal was to do them all at the same tempo. So just set the metronome to whereever you are comfortable and gradually raise the tempo.

The rigid thing about 20 times each is a little silly. I'm a drummer. I can't count that high. :)
__________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-10-2009, 11:49 PM
denisri denisri is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 537
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Hi
I did the whole book about 40 years ago(it took over 3 years)...I currently use it for myself and students as follows:
Half note equals 90 BPM(slower tempo for students)
Page 1
Read the Line
Then follow with 4 rights and then 4 lefts
Next
Page 1
Read the line
Then follow with 8 rights and then 8 lefts
Next
Read the line
Then follow with 16 rights and then 16 lefts

Next pass
Page 1
Read the line and play single stroke 16th note roll to a 5 count

Next pass
Read the line and play double stroke roll.

Then I finish my warm up with 16th note single stroke roll...half note equals 90BPM. 1st with a right start and then with a left.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-10-2009, 11:49 PM
jeffwj's Avatar
jeffwj jeffwj is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond, VA - Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 1,988
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica McCoy View Post
My teacher had me focus on one half of a page per week.

Goal was to do them all at the same tempo. So just set the metronome to whereever you are comfortable and gradually raise the tempo.

The rigid thing about 20 times each is a little silly. I'm a drummer. I can't count that high. :)
Welcome to Drummerworld. I see you're new here, but please use the search function to keep things uncluttered. There is a thread already created with 296 posts on the subject.

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showt...t=stick+conrol

Stone did write "20 times" for a reason. Endurance is a key element as is control.
__________________
Johnson Drum Instruction - Richmond, VA
Author of The Level System
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-11-2009, 02:13 AM
CJM CJM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 79
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwj View Post
Welcome to Drummerworld. I see you're new here, but please use the search function to keep things uncluttered. There is a thread already created with 296 posts on the subject.

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showt...t=stick+conrol

Stone did write "20 times" for a reason. Endurance is a key element as is control.

I did do a search, which resulted in a superfluity of information, when I wanted to know specifically about tempos.

Perhaps you should have taken jazzsnob's suggestion?
"This is an awesome thread, and I hope it gets stickied."

Good day.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:19 AM
Deltadrummer's Avatar
Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,685
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwj View Post

Stone did write "20 times" for a reason. Endurance is a key element as is control.
Yes, and as Jeff knows twenty was the minimum. I'm only getting into it after twenty 'minutes.' :)
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:25 AM
Monica McCoy's Avatar
Monica McCoy Monica McCoy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 480
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

I don't know exactly why you singled me out, Jeff. I didn't create the thread; I simply responded to it.

I don't focus on the number of times I do the rudiments. I do them until they sound pretty. It could be 2, 20 or 200. I just do it until it sounds tight and I don't have to think about it.
__________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:51 PM
jeffwj's Avatar
jeffwj jeffwj is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond, VA - Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 1,988
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica McCoy View Post
I don't know exactly why you singled me out, Jeff. I didn't create the thread; I simply responded to it.

I don't focus on the number of times I do the rudiments. I do them until they sound pretty. It could be 2, 20 or 200. I just do it until it sounds tight and I don't have to think about it.
I reread my reply and it did seem like the whole comment was for you. I apologize for the misunderstanding. CJM's question was "how do you use it" so the first part of my reply was for CJM. And that's why I said welcome to a new member.

As Ken pointed out (we both studied with Morello, a student of Stone) twenty times can just be the beginning. Stone stressed to Morello that control + endurance = speed. That is why many of Joe's exercises keep adding repetitions. You can use the repetitions as a gauge just as you can use tempo markings as a gauge. Maybe one day you can play an exercise ten times without feeling tension. A few days later you can do the exercise (at the same tempo) 15 times without stopping. I was just pointing out that tempo is not the only way to track improvement.

Jeff
__________________
Johnson Drum Instruction - Richmond, VA
Author of The Level System

Last edited by jeffwj; 08-11-2009 at 05:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-18-2009, 03:02 AM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJM View Post
How do people use it? how do teachers recommend using it? Stone says do each exercise 20 times and move on. But at what speeds should you be proficient before moving on?
Adding to what Jeff and Ken have said, I've also studied with a student of Stone: Ray Reilly, formerly of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. The book says 20 times, but Stone had his students do the exercises for much longer - i.e. as long as 5 minutes or more. Tempos and volumes were to be "moderate" at the beginning, but increased according to the facility of the individual. Strive for eveness of sound and fluidity of motion. One can also incorporate sound/stick levels, practicing from a vertical position, a half position and from a tap position as low as 3/8 of an inch depending on the needs of the player and the application.

So, in regards to tempo, start easy and work your way up according to capacity. If you can play the exercise with complete relaxation and control, then bump up the tempo. Only you can decide whether you're satisfied with your velocity or not.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-18-2009, 03:21 AM
ChipJohns's Avatar
ChipJohns ChipJohns is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah GA
Posts: 393
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica McCoy View Post
My teacher had me focus on one half of a page per week.

Goal was to do them all at the same tempo. So just set the metronome to whereever you are comfortable and gradually raise the tempo.

The rigid thing about 20 times each is a little silly. I'm a drummer. I can't count that high. :)
Me neither. I gotta count 12/8 like

1 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 3 4 2 um..wait.. Q:-)

--

I spend time every night before I go to bed working on my hands. About 15 minutes.
I find it good to do what is comfortable. There is a point of diminishing return.. time to stop. If I go for an hour and feel improvement and I'm jazzed about it, I'll keep going. A lot of it also has to do with your emotional state too. If I start getting frustrated because of something that was working well yesterday isn't today, I put my sticks down and walk away.

I would rather take twice as long and get three times better than complete it in half the time. And, the more time spent at the beginning and getting that stuff down is really what accelerates the exercises that follow, because they are designed, not to just build off of prior knowledge, but more importantly they build off of the ability that you have attained.

In other words, The more effective you become at step one, not only will you learn step two faster, but, the more efficient/effective you will be at step two...
__________________
~Chip
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-21-2009, 10:18 PM
drummerboy54 drummerboy54 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 3
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

One thing that you can do to really help build up your weaker hand is to play every note with the weak hand and play the other hand only where it is designated on the line you are working on.
For example if the line looked like: LRLR LRLR LRLR LRLR, and let's say your weaker hand was your left hand, you would play every note with your left hand in a vamp but with your right hand you'd only play the notes marked R. Everywhere there is an R you will actually be playing both hands at the same time.
Play at a slow tempo and gradually work your way up in speed.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-05-2009, 12:48 AM
bonhamdrummer123 bonhamdrummer123 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 126
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Has anyone played each rhythm at the same tempo or played each one at slow, fast, then slow tempos? Which has the most success with improving stick control?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-07-2009, 12:37 PM
Dave_Major's Avatar
Dave_Major Dave_Major is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 486
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

I am currently on my first pass at this book and have been doing it this way.

I did the first section (single beat, triplets, rolls etc) at 120 bpm. That tempo is well within my level but my concentration is on control so i tried to work on even strokes and making them sound consistent.

When I got to the flam beats section...120 is not within my level! So i pegged it back to 80bpm. Again i concentrated on control and even strokes. I also tried to make my flams 'look good'. By this I mean that the dominant note (right in a right flam etc) comes up higher than the ghost/low note.
The 20 thing flew out of the window with this mainly because I found my self messing up when I was trying to count and play the challenging exercises so I did each of them for 2 minutes each. Even at 40bpm I still do 20 reps.

This section of the book is awesome!!! It really has helped control and my left flams are more comfortable.

I am now on the short rolls in 6/8. Again I am doing it at 80bpm and each exercise for 2mins.

I have been at it since the 14th of July.

This seems to be working so far as my control has improved which is the point.

when I come back to this book (i think i am going to do accents and rebounds after i have got to the end.) I will probably work on speed and go through the first page and the 3rd page ( 8ths then 16ths) at different tempos. Building it each day.

Cheers

Dave
__________________


Dave Major
Professional Drummer
www.dave-major.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Major View Post

When I got to the flam beats section...120 is not within my level! So i pegged it back to 80bpm. Again i concentrated on control and even strokes. I also tried to make my flams 'look good'. By this I mean that the dominant note (right in a right flam etc) comes up higher than the ghost/low note.
Resurrecting an old thread. Dave, you're on the right track here. One student of Stone's I know says, "Stone always demonstrated the Flam & Drags alternately, and sidewyas using 18" and 2" heights." (emphasis mine) Ray also says to remember that the heights are "serving suggestions", and not meant to be adhered to 100% strictly. However, what he's getting at - as I understand it - is that the Flam Beats should be played paying close attention to stick heights (Lifts and Levels, Stone used to call it). The other thing is that with Flams, the stick height helps you play the rudiment. If two trains head to the same station at the same speed from different distances....well, you get the point. So if you can get both hands to play reasonably together, a little stick height action will give you your Flam sound.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-09-2010, 02:36 PM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
Resurrecting an old thread. Dave, you're on the right track here. One student of Stone's I know says, "Stone always demonstrated the Flam & Drags alternately, and sidewyas using 18" and 2" heights." (emphasis mine) Ray also says to remember that the heights are "serving suggestions", and not meant to be adhered to 100% strictly. However, what he's getting at - as I understand it - is that the Flam Beats should be played paying close attention to stick heights (Lifts and Levels, Stone used to call it). The other thing is that with Flams, the stick height helps you play the rudiment. If two trains head to the same station at the same speed from different distances....well, you get the point. So if you can get both hands to play reasonably together, a little stick height action will give you your Flam sound.
BTW, I always practice everything in Stick Controll and Accents & rebounds with 3 different heights, but I have been thinking, what about flams? You can of course have the main note on whatever height you want but could you play the grace (?) note from different height also? For example grace note at half stroke height and main stroke at full stroke height. Of course if it doesn't sound good you wouldn't have to use it when you actually play but this is purely from control practice point of view. So any use for that or is it just a waste of time?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPW View Post
BTW, I always practice everything in Stick Controll and Accents & rebounds with 3 different heights, but I have been thinking, what about flams? You can of course have the main note on whatever height you want but could you play the grace (?) note from different height also? For example grace note at half stroke height and main stroke at full stroke height. Of course if it doesn't sound good you wouldn't have to use it when you actually play but this is purely from control practice point of view. So any use for that or is it just a waste of time?
Of course you can. Ray Reilly had me do the grace notes from a low height - as indicated by the way they're written. Stylistically, the concept was to have them add colour and/or breadth to the primary note, not to be points of emphasis in and of themselves.

This is all topical for me because I received a brand-spanking new copy of Stick Control for Christmas to replace my old, dog-eared, cover-missing, staples-falling-out one. Anyway, prompted by this great gift, I started working through the book again, and decided to start with the Flam Beats section. For me, right now, I'm trying to work on my relaxation and low volume control, so I'm doing them with the grace notes about 1" off the drum and the primary notes 3" most of the time. The key is to apply the stuff to your needs.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-09-2010, 02:59 PM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
Of course you can. Ray Reilly always had me do the grace notes from a low height - as indicated by the way they're written. Stylistically, the concept was to have them add colour and/or breadth to the primary note, not to be points of emphasis in and of themselves.

This is all topical for me because I received a brand-spanking new copy of Stick Control for Christmas to replace my old, dog-eared, cover-missing, staples-falling-out one. Anyway, prompted by this great gift, I started working through the book again, and decided to start with the Flam Beats section. For me, right now, I'm trying to work on my relaxation and low volume control, so I'm doing them with the grace notes about 1" off the drum and the primary notes 3" most of the time. The key is to apply the stuff to your needs.
Hehe, nice, I'm also right now going through a wave of flam patterns in SC. I have been going with full stroke height for the main note and 1"-2" for the grace note. 1 page per week. I'm on the last page now with this "wave". Then I'm coming to these same patterns again with my half stroke wave. =) Fun patterns for sure and takes a lot of concentration but also the benefits are great.

But what really has had made my control better is practicing accent & rebounds accent patterns with three different height combinations: half->full, low->full and low->half. I first practiced those too going from low strokes to accent with full strokes but I noticed I couldn't do any of the other combos with proper control. Then I started practicing those also and my hands are really beginning to relax. It's a great feeling. I just have to say I love these books, it's an every day adventure. =) (needless to say, my practice routine with these books alone takes quite some time)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-18-2010, 04:40 AM
Flam_Taps
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

You guys are inspiring me to start going through that book again after 30 years.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-18-2010, 01:33 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flam_Taps View Post
You guys are inspiring me to start going through that book again after 30 years.
It's a gift that just keeps on giving. I received a new copy for Xmas to replace my 25-year old one that was being held together by luck and prayer for the past couple of years.

That lead me to dive in deep again, and I have to say that the more I work with it, the more I reinforce my opinion that there are too many drum books on the market. With a little creativity it'll do the job of half of them, and all for just a few bucks...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-18-2010, 03:36 PM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
It's a gift that just keeps on giving. I received a new copy for Xmas to replace my 25-year old one that was being held together by luck and prayer for the past couple of years.

That lead me to dive in deep again, and I have to say that the more I work with it, the more I reinforce my opinion that there are too many drum books on the market. With a little creativity it'll do the job of half of them, and all for just a few bucks...
Yeah and quite seriously, if you manage to pull off every excercise there is in SC and A&R with varying dynamic levels and tempos (without and with metronome) like Stone suggests without breaking your hands, your technique can't be far from optimal =P

I mean at the end of A&R there are these excercises with accents and rolls and buzzes, go try to do those with improper technique. =P

Yup, I'm in love with these books. Can't wait to see how my hand look 10 or 20 years from now.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-18-2010, 04:11 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPW View Post
Yeah and quite seriously, if you manage to pull off every excercise there is in SC and A&R with varying dynamic levels and tempos (without and with metronome) like Stone suggests without breaking your hands, your technique can't be far from optimal =P

I mean at the end of A&R there are these excercises with accents and rolls and buzzes, go try to do those with improper technique. =P

Yup, I'm in love with these books. Can't wait to see how my hand look 10 or 20 years from now.
They will do your hands a load of good, but they can be used to work so much else, too.

E.g. pg. 5 is a treasure trove for coordination and independence. Simply apply an ostinato with one or two limbs and spread the exercises between the other two. Play straight and swung. Play that through different subdivisions over the same ostinato...and so on and so on. I always tell my pupils when I give them their first copy of pg. 5 to guard it and protect it because they're going to come back to it time and again.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:13 PM
JPW JPW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 818
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
They will do your hands a load of good, but they can be used to work so much else, too.

E.g. pg. 5 is a treasure trove for coordination and independence. Simply apply an ostinato with one or two limbs and spread the exercises between the other two. Play straight and swung. Play that through different subdivisions over the same ostinato...and so on and so on. I always tell my pupils when I give them their first copy of pg. 5 to guard it and protect it because they're going to come back to it time and again.
Yes, I know, for example Lang's Advanced foot technique and creative coordination DVD is exactly that + odd groupings with multipedal orchestration, even Benny Greb's DVD can be thought this way, with some creativity you can evolve SC-pages to those type of excercises. So there's not much these books don't secretly cover. =P

But one thing I don't like (because I'm a perfectionist) is the fact that not all the permutations are practiced with SC. I mean even if we take the 4-note grouping approach which SC seems to use. For example if you look closely at flam exersices, the excercises with left hand lead stop before all the combinations were investigated that we did with right hand lead. I like to practice everything identically with left and right leads. Of course I CAN do them, and I think Stone just tried to make the book look "prettier" this way. But as I said the perfectionist inside me isn't happy about it. =)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-19-2010, 09:00 PM
yesdog's Avatar
yesdog yesdog is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: chicago suburbs
Posts: 761
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

The author suggest practicing stick control one hour a day as well. I use a timer and set it for three minutes for each exercise. I will go through twenty exercises which equals one hour. I will use a metronome when learning a new exercise and to gauge my progress. I will also focus on making the exercises as even sounding as possible. Another thing is focus on being as relaxed as possible and take the tempo up until you feel tension and then back off, I also play very soft and loud. After an hour of that your hands and arms feel like noodles.
__________________
IT'S ALL ABOUT FUN PEOPLE!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/user/slfsc
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-20-2010, 03:54 AM
Flam_Taps
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

There's an interesting way to use Stone's book that I was experimenting with way back in the mid 70s when I was on staff at the Armed Forces School of Music--

Use the single beats starting on page 5 as a drum set exercise between all four limbs, strictly reading EVERY OTHER right with your right foot and EVERY OTHER left with your left foot.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:17 AM
Eric Eric is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 139
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

I discovered this book through my teacher in college who told me that the flam section in particular would really benefit my independence on the drum set, and man was he right. I don't believe in the 20 times thing. I do each one until I feel solid on it and then move on, which is always more than 20 times. As a teacher, I'm always amazed at how many times the student thinks they're playing the right sticking but aren't. Forces you into new patterns. I usually go open-closed-open as well.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-28-2010, 04:40 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

This would be a great topic to sticky, along with a similar thread on Syncopation.

Stick Control will sure challenge your patience. Once you accept the tedium and treat the exercises as conditioners, you can get good results. I particularly like the closed roll studies. My advice is: be sitting down, don't get too hung up on the 20 reps or on taking it sequentially, use a click, and focus on accuracy over speed. I would supplement it with Accents and Rebounds, and Joe Morello's Master Studies books.

On the drums, I've been working through the first section applying the stickings to triplets, split between the LH/RF (R=RF, L=LH), while playing jazz time on the HH/cym. So, #5 (RLRR LRLL) gives you: RLR-RLR-LLR-LRR | LRL-LRL-RRL-RLL.

My major reservation about the book is that the musical content of the exercises gets a little buried. For example, you can get the Stone pattern RLRR LRRL (#33) by playing 1 2& &4 (Reed, old p. 33, #3) with the RH and filling out the 8ths with the left; the Reed version is an actual musical idea, the Stone is just physical coordination. I think it's better for your musicianship to be taking a musical idea and translating it into drummer language, vs. taking a piece of physical coordination and trying to figure out how it's musical, you know? So, many of the drumset things that are normally done with the first section, I do with Syncopation instead.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
My major reservation about the book is that the musical content of the exercises gets a little buried. For example, you can get the Stone pattern RLRR LRRL (#33) by playing 1 2& &4 (Reed, old p. 33, #3) with the RH and filling out the 8ths with the left; the Reed version is an actual musical idea, the Stone is just physical coordination. I think it's better for your musicianship to be taking a musical idea and translating it into drummer language, vs. taking a piece of physical coordination and trying to figure out how it's musical, you know? So, many of the drumset things that are normally done with the first section, I do with Syncopation instead.
Check this out - Syncopated Rolls for the Modern Drummer. It's exactly what you're talking about.

Blackley's entire approach is to start with a musical/rhythmic phrase and then us various subdivisions and stickings to fill the space between and connect the plateus of the phrase. This way, your technical study is all within the context of building a functional rhythmic vocabulary.

P.S. I second the sticky idea. Perhaps an amalgamation of all the threads on the subject? We should start pestering the site admins...

Last edited by Boomka; 02-28-2010 at 02:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-28-2010, 10:19 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

A student has one of the Blackley books coming- I'm very interested to check that out.

I'll email the admins- hopefully they won't laugh at me and call me a noob. This would be a great venue for capturing some of the oral tradition surrounding those books. Or maybe I need to start a wiki.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-01-2010, 12:55 AM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
A student has one of the Blackley books coming- I'm very interested to check that out.

I'll email the admins- hopefully they won't laugh at me and call me a noob. This would be a great venue for capturing some of the oral tradition surrounding those books. Or maybe I need to start a wiki.
Which book? SRMD is the jumping off point, but Essence of Jazz Drumming is also off the hook...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-27-2014, 11:04 AM
Torkerz's Avatar
Torkerz Torkerz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 132
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Pulling this out of the ashes.

Has anyone got a specific routine in relation to Stick Control? I pulled it out the other day. I always feel guilty not going through the first page as it's a good 'top-up' but I always find myself never going past them...

Does anyone single out exercises and just focus purely on them? I am trying to make the book versatile to help me.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-27-2014, 10:33 PM
vxla vxla is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 333
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Play pages 5-8 with varying foot patterns, including samba bass drum pattern, left foot clave (rumba and son), all off beats in the feet, triplets against eighth notes in the hands, etc. then swap the hands and feet entirely.
__________________
Please take a moment for the Bass Drum Pedal Questionnaire
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-29-2014, 07:32 PM
Mark_S's Avatar
Mark_S Mark_S is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Leicester, England, U.K.
Posts: 601
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

And there was me rolling it up and whacking the cymbals with it.
__________________
Sonor S-Class Pro, Premier XPK / Signia, Paiste cymbals, Yamaha DTX750
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-29-2014, 09:37 PM
Red Menace's Avatar
Red Menace Red Menace is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,845
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
And there was me rolling it up and whacking the cymbals with it.
Haaah! Gave me a good chuckle there.
__________________
Do robots dream of E-kits?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-29-2014, 11:13 PM
eddypierce eddypierce is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 225
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkerz View Post
Pulling this out of the ashes.

Has anyone got a specific routine in relation to Stick Control? I pulled it out the other day. I always feel guilty not going through the first page as it's a good 'top-up' but I always find myself never going past them...

Does anyone single out exercises and just focus purely on them? I am trying to make the book versatile to help me.
My basic routine these days is pretty basic: 30 minutes a day (when I can) on the single beats section, broken up with 10 minutes each on full strokes, half strokes and low strokes. I'll play each exercise for one minute. I'll stick with the same set of exercises for a week or more before going on to the next. I started out by playing #1-10 as full strokes, #11-20 as half strokes, and #21-30 as low strokes. On week #2, I'll move to #11-20 as full, #21-30 as half, and #31-40 as low. And then I'll continue that process until I've moved through them all. At the very least it's very good maintenance work, but it also helps improve my speed and control over time.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-04-2014, 01:45 AM
OneWatt's Avatar
OneWatt OneWatt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Reviving an older thread ...

FWIW, since I began using Stone's "Accents & Rebounds" for my handwork (traditional and matched), I now find myself using those initial pages of "Stick Control" almost entirely for feet ... i.e., L=left foot and R=right foot.

Of course you can work from whatever speed upwards is helpful for pushing your footwork forward. The lack of accents in these exercises makes it a bit easier to concentrate on the foot work, whether you play along with the hands or keep your hands on your lap to really concentrate on how your feet are doing against the metronome, it's a good workout either way.

Speaking of hands: sometimes I try to complicate things a bit by playing the L and R for feet, while keep a constant paradiddle or other 4- or 8-note phrase going on the hands - anything that's different from whatever the (foot) pattern is from each given Stick Control exercise. For me this quickly gets to be fairly challenging, but slowing it all down helps get my older brain into the proper groove.

(Since I'm a left-handed/left-footed player L=kick and R=hh ... but that doesn't matter since Stick Control is all symmetrically written anyhow.)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-12-2014, 07:29 PM
shred36 shred36 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

My teacher always told me to work on this daily, whether its, morning evening or night.
I use it everyday and write little black dots on what exercices I already did.
From monday to friday I usually do it in the morning one new exercice at three different speed, so three time 20 or 30 reps, one new exercice every day, and on week end it depends, I usually play for a few hours and dont really keep track of that training with stick control.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-12-2014, 08:01 PM
OneWatt's Avatar
OneWatt OneWatt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by shred36 View Post
My teacher always told me to work on this daily, whether its, morning evening or night.
I use it everyday and write little black dots on what exercices I already did.
From monday to friday I usually do it in the morning one new exercice at three different speed, so three time 20 or 30 reps, one new exercice every day, and on week end it depends, I usually play for a few hours and dont really keep track of that training with stick control.
Excellent, sounds like you've got a solid practice habit in place!

Rather than the little black dot approach, I've created one-a-month worksheets for each significant practice book/routine I'm working on with a column for each day of the month and the particulars of the exercise down the rows.

I've attached a pdf example for Stick Control - which again, I actually use for "Foot Control" exercises with L and R for my feet. I'm a lefty, so things are reversed for most. I use Stone's "Accents & Rebounds" for handwork - which is similar to Stick Control but with accents, thanks to Joe Morello's input.

I print off one page of each per month (and use a check, or put the tempo rate, or a line through, whatever, on each column based on actual practice). 3-hole punched, these go into a binder that sits next to my kit. It's an organized way to remember to work through various practice routines and also log progress over time.

Anyhow, perhaps if these attachments are of interest to anyone I can upload some more I currently use for other well-known drum books...
Attached Images
File Type: pdf StickControl-Worksheet.xlsx.pdf (32.7 KB, 44 views)
File Type: pdf AccentsRebounds-Worksheet.xlsx.pdf (33.9 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by OneWatt; 10-12-2014 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-13-2014, 05:13 AM
shred36 shred36 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

I like the idea a lot, if you used excel instead of a printed paper you could draw some cool graphs and maybe have it suggest you exercises you did not practice for a long time.
Do you know other drummers keeping track like you do ?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-13-2014, 05:27 AM
OneWatt's Avatar
OneWatt OneWatt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by shred36 View Post
I like the idea a lot, if you used excel instead of a printed paper you could draw some cool graphs and maybe have it suggest you exercises you did not practice for a long time.
Do you know other drummers keeping track like you do ?
In fact I made those pdf files from Excel spreadsheets I'd created. They're pretty straightforward, as you can tell. Adding graphs is a neat idea - thanks!

I just tried to attach a few of them as samples so others could edit them to suit their own needs. Unfortunately I keep getting "Invalid" file errors ... which perhaps indicates you can't upload live active files like Excel (which theoretically could have a malicious macro from an ill-intended individual). Sorry ... unless I can figure out how to upload my Excel files you'll have to make your own (not a tough assignment.)

As for other drummers doing this, no, I don't personally know of anyone but I'm sure given how compulsive most drummers get about their kits, there are probably quite a few of us out there keeping medical charts on our practice time like this ;-)

Enjoy!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-15-2014, 06:33 AM
shred36 shred36 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7
Default Re: how to use Stick Control

Cool I'll try to make something that could do the job, how do you manage to keep track when you have exercices with different books or dvd's ?
I usually work with one book at the time because trying to keep track of more than one is confusing me and also because I write directly on the book itself.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com