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  #1  
Old 09-02-2014, 01:51 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

First post, if wrong forum or anything just tell me and I'll move it.

I've been playing for about 16 months. I believe I have made nice progress on several techniques. Been playing on a roland td 15kv. Wanted an acoustic kit because I didn't want to limit myself to learning these techniques on an electric kit only. Plus I just wanted one. I'm a heal toe player, and learned everything on a trick dominator. So far I've had to minimally adjust my sticking to accommodate for the bounce of the toms/snare and that is going OK. But the kick drum is driving my nuts. I got this nice 3 piece maple Sonor kit with a 24" kick and an Acrolite (It's so fun to play), but I cannot get my pedal adjusted correctly.

First I noticed the Roland kick pad is leaning forward, so I replicated that, and that helped a ton. But for those who have a Dominator you'll know that they are endlessly adjustable, and I have tried for hours to find that same feeling as on my Roland. Not happening.

Rather than ask how I can adjust my pedal, here is my question.
I have the stock Remo UT heads. I'm just about to order a Superkick 2 or an Emad.
1. How much will the difference in rebound be effected with a new (better) batter.
2. I was thinking of getting a Danmar PDKP kick pad. This will obviously change the rebound a bit. I'm kind of thinking it will be a little less bouncy like my Roland likely is. Agree?

Any feedback is appreciated.

I know this sounds really close to a gear question, but maybe it's really a technique problem. Maybe I just have to re-learn.
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2014, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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Originally Posted by manther View Post

I know this sounds really close to a gear question, but maybe it's really a technique problem. Maybe I just have to re-learn.
It is a technique problem and you will have to re-learn some foot technique. But you did mention the Remo UT head - is there any muffling in the bass drum now? But I'm not a fan of those stock heads. Try a Remo PowerStroke 3, it'll feel a little flatter, and sound much better. I played that Trick pedal too and agree that it definitely has its own feel.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:12 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

Thanks, yes the drum has a towel rolled up and lightly pressing against the batter and reso each. I've only really used the Trick pedal so I'm pretty used to it. In fact was going to buy another one because I don't want to keep switching it back and forth between the Sonor and Roland and constantly dialing in the settings.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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Thanks, yes the drum has a towel rolled up and lightly pressing against the batter and reso each. I've only really used the Trick pedal so I'm pretty used to it. In fact was going to buy another one because I don't want to keep switching it back and forth between the Sonor and Roland and constantly dialing in the settings.
Hmm - this makes me feel like its still more of a technique issue, because I can pretty much take any of my pedals, and not have to change them for whatever drum or pad I may be using. You shouldn't have to change it going from pad to drum.

Also - when you said the Roland is facing forward, what does that mean? Is it tilted forward so your beater goes past vertical to strike the pad? Or the other way around?
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

The bass drum pad on an e-kit will have much more response than an acoustic bass drum.
It is a matter of technique that will take time for you to perfect. You may want to try a larger pillow up against the BD batter to make it feel more like the e-kit BD pad.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:25 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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Hmm - this makes me feel like its still more of a technique issue, because I can pretty much take any of my pedals, and not have to change them for whatever drum or pad I may be using. You shouldn't have to change it going from pad to drum.

Also - when you said the Roland is facing forward, what does that mean? Is it tilted forward so your beater goes past vertical to strike the pad? Or the other way around?
The other way around. And I did tilt the front of my drum up.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:28 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
The bass drum pad on an e-kit will have much more response than an acoustic bass drum.
It is a matter of technique that will take time for you to perfect. You may want to try a larger pillow up against the BD batter to make it feel more like the e-kit BD pad.
I could try the pillow just to see if thats what it is.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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I could try the pillow just to see if thats what it is.
Also you have a large bass drum. That in itself will slow things down considerably. The larger the diameter of the bass drum, the slower the action. The depth of the bass drum also has a big effect on the action.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:52 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

I was afraid that might be the case. It's a 24x16. On the Roland I can do these little tripplet flurries between the hats and the kick. With the trip and the let on the kick. Currently on the sonor I can get one or two double strokes but not 3 or 4 in a row. It all starts sounding real muddy or I don't get the board to rebound quick enough.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

If you're doing a speed metal thing then you should find out how those guys tune + muffle + trigger their kicks.

I would guess they tighten up the head and put a pillow or 2 inside.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:14 AM
Michaelocalypse Michaelocalypse is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

It's a technique thing, inherent in the difference between the two physical surfaces you're striking. Whenever I've had to play e-kits, I had to consciously play the bass drum different to avoid getting double and triple triggers when I only wanted one hit.

You can deaden the crap out of your bass drum with all the padding and pillows you want so that if feels like your e-pad, but that defeats the purpose of having an acoustic drum. You've learned to play a pad, now learn to play a drum.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:20 AM
manther manther is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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It's a technique thing, inherent in the difference between the two physical surfaces you're striking. Whenever I've had to play e-kits, I had to consciously play the bass drum different to avoid getting double and triple triggers when I only wanted one hit.

You can deaden the crap out of your bass drum with all the padding and pillows you want so that if feels like your e-pad, but that defeats the purpose of having an acoustic drum. You've learned to play a pad, now learn to play a drum.
Yeah I wanted that 24" kick for the big sound. I'm more of the rock genre than metal. I can try the pillow thing to see if that was the problem, but only as a test. I want that big drum to sing like it's supposed to. I think i'm gonna put the pedal back on the Roland. Get it set just like I like it, then move it to the Sonor without changing anything, and just adjust my foot to learn the new rebound style.
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2014, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

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Originally Posted by manther View Post
Yeah I wanted that 24" kick for the big sound. I'm more of the rock genre than metal. I can try the pillow thing to see if that was the problem, but only as a test. I want that big drum to sing like it's supposed to. I think i'm gonna put the pedal back on the Roland. Get it set just like I like it, then move it to the Sonor without changing anything, and just adjust my foot to learn the new rebound style.
Do that the other way - adjust to the acoustic and learn to play it that way.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:43 AM
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Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

Maybe the angle of the bass drum plays into it too. How high is the front hoop off the ground? I go no more than an inch. Let Joe Morello explain where I'm going with this. Remember, your e-kit has a flat vertical surface with no angle I assume.

http://youtu.be/1LlX6Y5Gxio?t=4m57s
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

the other possible way to try and increae the response of your 24 bass drum is to not port, and tune medium high. Lots of rebound, perhaps like the harder E-kit surface.

But like said, they are two different animals, and you need to retrain for the A kit feel.
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  #16  
Old 09-02-2014, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

Well you've just confirmed my worst fears if I ever went back to playing an A-kit.
You've also gone from a small, hard rubber pad to a large, mylar head so not surprising you're having issues.
Yes it's a technique thing but I'm guessing rebound (or lack thereof) is also an issue.
Maybe you could try high tension on the batter side to replicate that high rebound feel of the e-kick pad (even if that sounds like crap initially, at least you could start there and ease off the tension until your playing style adjusts)?
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  #17  
Old 09-02-2014, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

This entire thread confirms why I evangelize the acoustic kit for everything. I get the "I have to play soft" thing (actually, I don't really, as evidenced in another thread), but you actually mess yourself up if you only play an electronic kit. Now, if you have no intention of ever playing acoustic drums, that's fine. But if you have any inkling that you might want to one day - I'd get and play an acoustic kit.

Once you're technique is good on acoustic drums, it's easy to adjust to pads. As we see here, it isn't easy going the other way. I thanked my lucky stars I studied so much when I was a kid on acoustic drums, because in the 80s, I, like everyone else, fell into the electronic thing, and actually worked alot with just one of those early Roland Octapads and a DW EP-1 trigger pedal. If my technique wasn't good...talk about potential tennis elbow and other ailments in the future. Thankfully I balanced that with acoustic drum gigs.

So, you can readjust, it'll just take time. Don't rush it.
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2014, 10:01 AM
Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

My advice: adjust the Roland bass drum pad if possible, assuming its mesh and can be loosened. Just a slight adjustment on mine and its very close to the feel of acoustics. Just be careful it is not too loose.
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  #19  
Old 09-02-2014, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: Pretty frustrated with adjusting to an acoustic kit

I think that if you are going "accoustic" I would grit my teeth and not set up your pedal / drum in a compromised fashion such as angling the kick drum so the face it presents is at a similar setting to your E-Kit.

It will be a pain in the clacker but there are too many variables to tinker with to get a similar feel to what you are familiar with.... and in my view fiddling with head tensions, muffling etc will kill the sound and the other benefits of accoustic.

People above have talked about rebound, but the other aspect is the amount of give in an accoustic head. (actually someone already mentioned the hard e-kit pad vs soft accoustic)
That might be a pain and involve a different tecnique to get "fast" beats. However the benefit is more "nuance" in your playing from fast light "tapping" to really burying your kick into the head to get a more distictive and loud "thud" ...rather like ghost notes vs full strokes on the snare.

I think if you are going accoustic set the kick up for the sound you want and take the time to develop the technique to play it.

It might take some time, but perhaps there are "nuances" in the rest of the kit like different tunings, stroke tecniques etc that you can explore in the meantime. I know E-kits have come a long way but I think accoustic presents far more variables in how you play to get different sounds out of a particular cymbal / snare etc

Hope that helps and good luck !!
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