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  #1  
Old 10-20-2012, 03:31 PM
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evolving_machine evolving_machine is offline
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Default very durable set of bass drum pedals?

I have used a lot of pedals in my life, and I do not like buying equipment again because of design flaws. I need a pedal that is made well and will not break. I am an engineer with mechanical and material science background.

If a steel screw is threaded into an aluminum part, eventually it will strip. The steel has a strength that is much higher than the aluminum. When designing a steel screw into an aluminum part, usually a steel insert is used so that the screw does not strip the aluminum. This is so basic that I am very surprised that I have this issue with pedals that I purchase.

I have a choice now of either taking my pedal parts to a machine shop and having them modified, or finding another pedal.

Does anyone know of a very durable set of bass drum pedals?
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:48 PM
risewiththefallen risewiththefallen is offline
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Depends on your budget. Iron cobras are know to be pretty durable if you dont want to spend too much. Trick pedals are all aircraft alluminum and stainless steel there very durable and the czarcie coypto from poland are supposed to be durable as well but when you start looking at these pedals your talking about quite a bit.of.money.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Axis and Trick are probably the two best made pedals on the market...all machined aluminum parts make up the main construction (i.e., foot boards, arms, linkages, main floor plates, etc..) they do have steel screws, but not steel inserts ...however, I think you'd be hard pressed to break/damage one of these pedals, and if you did I would question your tightening/technique for adjusting/using the pedal...
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Trick pedals are def the highest quality I've seen in a pedal. They were very stiff to me, though it could have been the settings, I only had a casual look at them.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

I've heard great things about the Axis pedal U-Joint shafts. On most other double pedals I've seen at the drumshops, the U joints are all thrashed. Overall, solid pedals I've heard.

Trick is also another top pedal, but their price is a little steep. I picked up the Dominator based on the quality build and durability. Their AL13 alloy composition and Internal compression spring technology may appeal to your background. It's quite an insane pedal, only limited to one mastering the longboard and direct drive (those were my main challenges switching from the DW9000's).

Here's a cool review. As he says, I guess they kinda look like pedals Satan would use.
http://www.uberproaudio.com/articles...e-pedal-review

They come as 2 pedals and can be used either way. Very solid and well build. The spring tensions adjust on the fly so you can reach down between songs to change tension. Built in the US of America.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

I would think going for one of the old school pedals would be the way to go(correct me if I'm wrong), something like the Camco by Tama pedal or the Ludwig Speed King. Here's a pic from one of Elvin Jones' kits that they have at Maxwell Drums in Manhattan:

ETA: image isn't working, so here's the link: http://www.maxwelldrums.com/popup_ex...php?peiID=3620
It wasn't even from when he was a Camco endorser, either, but when he was still playing Gretsch. I guarantee you that pedal went through hell in its years and it's still holding up strong today.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Above recommendations are +1, but what pedals are you/have you used that you're unhappy with? And .... what is your budget? The Dominator runs $600. Axis a shade less.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

I am trying to avoid buying a set of pedals if they are screwing steel into aluminum without steel inserts. If none of the pedals have steel inserts, it would be better for me to take what I have to a machine shop and have them modified. It seems that all these pedals do the same thing.

I just do not want to be purchasing a new set of pedals every few years because they are designed poorly.

I would not mind the Trick or Axis pedals if they were made to last, and the Iron Cobras have a reputation, but there is nothing in the design that warrants its unique status.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
I am trying to avoid buying a set of pedals if they are screwing steel into aluminum without steel inserts.
I'm an engineer with mechanical and material science background.

If a steel screw is threaded into an aluminum part, eventually it will strip.





Stripping is not really a problem unless you're taking the pedals apart all the time, or maybe, all it takes is once.

Seizing is the problem, aluminum and steel don't mix that way.

I tell people with these pedals (AXIS, TRICK etc.) if they're mechanically inclined, to disassemble the pedal and reassemble it using a little grease under the screw heads, I stress 'a little', teflon can also be used on the threads. Nylon washers are not practical on the bottom plate(s).

What I've noticed about my AXIS after 10+ years is even tho I've controlled the seizing, there's still the (galvanic) corrosion between the two metals steel/aluminum, you take care of part of it, but the head of the screw will rot away.... so what's worse? Both at the same time- no head and the threads seized.

Titanium fasteners, or some other compatible material with aluminum is an option.

Steel screws are just crap to begin with if you're talking in these realms.


Why do inserts? Besides... steel screws into aluminum is a lot better than steel screws into pot metal, which is what most (other) pedals are.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
I have used a lot of pedals in my life, and I do not like buying equipment again because of design flaws. I need a pedal that is made well and will not break. I am an engineer with mechanical and material science background.

If a steel screw is threaded into an aluminum part, eventually it will strip. The steel has a strength that is much higher than the aluminum. When designing a steel screw into an aluminum part, usually a steel insert is used so that the screw does not strip the aluminum. This is so basic that I am very surprised that I have this issue with pedals that I purchase.

I have a choice now of either taking my pedal parts to a machine shop and having them modified, or finding another pedal.

Does anyone know of a very durable set of bass drum pedals?
With your background, it seems as if you should be able to make the determination much better than most of us. You know the criteria that's important to you and you also know what pedals you have already checked out. I have many pedals that I use and I haven't had any negative issue with any of them. I'm very careful with what I buy, but I rarely dissect them to figure out why they work.

Dennis
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2012, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
With your background, it seems as if you should be able to make the determination much better than most of us. You know the criteria that's important to you and you also know what pedals you have already checked out. I have many pedals that I use and I haven't had any negative issue with any of them. I'm very careful with what I buy, but I rarely dissect them to figure out why they work.

Dennis
It is unfortunate that I do not have access to a very well stocked music store where I can actually, physically touch and feel the pedals. If I knew which ball park to look in, I could simply call the music stores to determine if they had a pedal that someone would recommend. So that is why I am just asking for some recommendations within the guidelines I laid out.

Thank you,
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2012, 03:41 PM
Soupy Soupy is offline
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Every fastener has an appropriate torque spec. If you're destroying your threads then you're over-torqueing the fastener. Considering that most drummers do not have this problem, I'd have to suggest that you're doing something wrong.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Every fastener has an appropriate torque spec. If you're destroying your threads then you're over-torqueing the fastener. Considering that most drummers do not have this problem, I'd have to suggest that you're doing something wrong.

Rarely does a steel screw get stripped in conjunction with pot metal threads. Most pedals are ferrous metal, so vs a steel screw the pedals threads are going to lose.

Sure a connecting shaft may be steel, but those threads are minimal (as in few per inch) and can easily stripped out since there's little there to hold on to the fastener.

Aluminum pedals don't have a problem with their threads stripping out, its more seizing with steel fasteners, which can be looked at as a positive if you never take your pedals apart.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

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Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Every fastener has an appropriate torque spec. If you're destroying your threads then you're over-torqueing the fastener. Considering that most drummers do not have this problem, I'd have to suggest that you're doing something wrong.
Of course, it is never the manufacturer who decided to save money and make their product cheaper. Of course it is always the consumer. This is a poor practice to use steel bolts and aluminum female threads. I suspect opinions like yours are either coming from someone who either wants to fight or is being paid by the manufacturer's to endorse products. Who uses a torque wrench on their drum equipment when tightening the screws?
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Last edited by evolving_machine; 11-09-2012 at 01:26 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2012, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Its different opinions that make this and other forums interesting.

We can learn something from everybody.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: very durable set of bass drum pedals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
Of course, it is never the manufacturer who decided to save money and make their product cheaper. Of course it is always the consumer. This is a poor practice to use steel bolts and aluminum female threads. I suspect opinions like yours are either coming from someone who either wants to fight or is being paid by the manufacturer's to endorse products. Who uses a torque wrench on their drum equipment when tightening the screws?

I don't think anyone wants to fight here, even the ones who endorse products/work for a drum companies.

Its easy to understand drum manufactures try to save money by using 'lesser than optimal', not military/NASA spec parts, especially fasteners, they are trying to keep the cost down. If a consumer is aware enough, or it matters to them enough, then that consumer can replace fasteners if they choose. I don't even want to imagine the price of a double TRICK set up with stainless steel fasteners.

The only fasteners on a TRICK, or AXIS that I would consider replacing are underneath the base plate (floor side), they seem to be subject to the most elemental abuse. You can dab some form of oil/grease on all the screw-heads visible topside.


I don't think it would a profitable custom venture buying AXIS/TRICK then refitting them with high grade fasteners, there just aren't enough drummers who care, or have the money and if they do they usually do it themselves, or have their drum tech do it.
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