DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:37 PM
lowdowner's Avatar
lowdowner lowdowner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cotswolds, UK
Posts: 133
Default Drummer stereotypes

whilst playing bass with my band I suggested to the other band members (lead guitar, flute, vocals) that we need to get some percussion - preferably a drummer.

The lead guitarist said 'Oh, drummers? Those are people who hang about with musicians aren't they?' in a kind of a snide way. It finally made me decide to take the plunge and learn to play drums. I've been playing bass, and classical guitar, for a long time, and can read music and understand harmony.

I'm genuinely in awe of drummers and percussionists and think that their understanding of music is as deep, or deeper, than most other band instrument players, and I can't work out where this stereotype comes from.

Do you think there is any genuine reason for this stereotype? Am I going to have to put up with this kind of bullish*t as I learn more and more about drumming? How do you guys put up with it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 PM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,963
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowdowner View Post
and I can't work out where this stereotype comes from.
Banging on rocks and logs outside the cave.

Quote:
Do you think there is any genuine reason for this stereotype?
Not really. But the gag has been running for so long now that I guess everyone wants a piece of it.

Quote:
Am I going to have to put up with this kind of bullish*t as I learn more and more about drumming?
It seems to always rear its head at some point or another. More often than not it's all in fun though.

We've had discussions about it here on DW before. It bothers some people immensely and is like water off a ducks back to othesr. I've always been in the second group personally.

Quote:
How do you guys put up with it?
I pull the piss right back at them........then I sit down with them and make music. I've never had serious allegations of "neanderthal-ism" levelled at me. It's all been in good, yet strangely boring and predictable, fun
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:34 PM
Allstar drummer Allstar drummer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Thibodaux, louisiana
Posts: 90
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I get classified as the kid who listens to 70's mystic instead of our modern day fad. But they say I'm an awesome drummer!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:55 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,335
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I think other musicians tend to think they have it harder than the drummer does. There is a lot of subtlety to being a good drummer that just plain takes a good amount of thought and practice to come into. Until you put in that time, drumming is usually "hit the right thing at the right time". We know that's only a small part of it, but to someone who doesn't know, it's "easy" to play the drums since we don't usually worry about chord progressions or note scales.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:14 PM
NerfLad's Avatar
NerfLad NerfLad is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 660
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

It bothers me that everyone seems to assume they already know something about the instrument, like it's not as sophisticated. Of course this is because to the outsider we just hit stuff, and that's what stupid cavemen did with clubs and logs. So drums must be easy!

A great little comic by Grea comes to mind...

Edit: To answer your question, I'm not really bothered by the stereotypes and jokes. As has been mentioned, yes, they usually are just in good fun and a little self deprecation tends to go a long way anyway. But we all know the truth ;)
__________________
Not banned (yet)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:31 PM
Souljacker Souljacker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 452
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I can take a joke no problem. I mean I've a few myself. "How do you know someones a great guitarist?, he'll tell you" and "How do you know you're at a bass guitar clinic?, No one turns up" Then there is that one about the guy arriving late, he must be a singer.

But was the guy serious or did he mean it as a joke? I can't imagine people would think that is true.

I've never had that joke made to me personally, people really like drums generally I think. I can definitely see the insulting side of the joke.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:39 PM
lowdowner's Avatar
lowdowner lowdowner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cotswolds, UK
Posts: 133
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker View Post
But was the guy serious or did he mean it as a joke? I can't imagine people would think that is true.

I've never had that joke made to me personally, people really like drums generally I think. I can definitely see the insulting side of the joke.
I think he probably meant it - it follows a few 'jokes' about the terrible noise of drums and similar remarks.

The odd thing is that his musical knowledge doesn't seem to be that deep or anything, but just dismissing a whole vital part of music making (percussion) seems weird...

Still - it spurred *me* on to realise an ambition and pick up some sticks so it's not all bad :)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:12 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
How do you guys put up with it?

Acceptance is the key.

They do have some valid points when looking at drummers as a whole. I've learned a lot more musically in the recent past but, all I really used to do was hit the drums to keep tempo. It wasn't very difficult.

I'd venture to say that your mates would sound pretty weak without a drummer. Even worse with a drum machine. Hate us all you want but, a band without a drummer is going to be lacking something. :)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:34 AM
toddmc's Avatar
toddmc toddmc is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,131
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

You have to learn to love drummer jokes the way lawyers love lawyer jokes.
What do you call a drummer in a suit? The defendant!
I'm here all week......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:40 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

The loudness of drums creates hostility in some quarters. Naive people see drums as more primitive and less refined and because of that, as Watso said, non-drummers often don't realise that the nuances in drumming can make so much difference (as they can with guitar, not that they'd admit it haha).

Some musicians look down on us for this, some are in awe of us for using four limbs, some only notice us when we disrupt the flow, some think that drums are the most important part of the band, some are not interested in us and focus more on the vertical aspect of the staff than the horizontal (these players usually have weak timing), some are frustrated drummers themselves (or they get a bit on the side) - there's a lot of different attitudes out there.

Lowdowner, your guitarist strikes me as a tad insecure - he tried to crowbar the one joke he knew about drummers in a context where it didn't work. Mention drummers one more time to this guy and he's go nuthin' :)

Nerf, I forgot the cartoon - do you remember which one?
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:50 AM
inneedofgrace's Avatar
inneedofgrace inneedofgrace is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey - Exit 5
Posts: 1,560
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I'll give you the other side of the coin:

I play in two bands, but have been on hiatus due to a medical situation. They have attempted to keep playing, with either fill in drummers or no drummer at all. Both bands are counting the weeks before I can return to duty. If you are a drummer that knows how to fit in and enhance the music, as well as keep an appropriate groove, you will be appreciated and the stereotypes go out the window. Just by your playing, you can disprove the stereotypes very quickly. If the stereotypes continue, you may want to think about what you are doing to feed into them.
__________________
"Through many dangers, toils and snares..." - Amazing Grace, third verse
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-10-2012, 01:30 AM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 5,529
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Nerf, I forgot the cartoon - do you remember which one?
It could be this one :)
Attached Images
 
__________________
Keep On Drumming
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-10-2012, 01:44 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Could be, Henri, though it's only visually relevant. I did this one when I first started cartooning - it's visually very amateur but the message is clear ...



(Yes, I was blonde back then and, yes, I morphed my face - I didn't actually look that weird lol)
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:31 AM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,774
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I'm going with the "You're amazing"/"You're hired". cartoon.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:06 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Write out some drum parts, tell him to pick any four open string and read it down in time. You know the old joke about how do you get a guitarist to turn down?

I was chatting with a guitarist buddy after a gig about some outside harmony bits and some guy came over from the bar and asked "How do you know about b9's and such? You're a drummer". My buddy said, "No, he's a musician who plays drums."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:55 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'm going with the "You're amazing"/"You're hired". cartoon.
That wasn't mine. I'd like to take credit because it's very funny and true but, alas, I'm not that good.

Geez, Aeolian - pretty trag if people think that drummers don't understand chord structures. Still, it's fun when stupid people think that you're stupid - you can lead them into some pretty amusing places :)
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:52 AM
lowdowner's Avatar
lowdowner lowdowner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cotswolds, UK
Posts: 133
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
That wasn't mine. I'd like to take credit because it's very funny and true but, alas, I'm not that good.

Geez, Aeolian - pretty trag if people think that drummers don't understand chord structures. Still, it's fun when stupid people think that you're stupid - you can lead them into some pretty amusing places :)
Having been through the 'classical' music training route (for some reason I inwardly groan when I think of that now even though it's given me a good grounding in music theory) I could have some fun with guitarists who think drummers are musically dumb. Mind you, I have a PhD in maths too so maybe I can think of other defences...

Maybe I'll just follow the advice given on here and treat it like water off a duck's back - I was just feeling defensive on *every* drummer's behalf as I'm new to it :)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:31 PM
wesporter wesporter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ashland, OH
Posts: 80
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

The thing about stereotypes is that all stereotypes are based in "some" truth. I think the stereotype stems from back in a time when these concepts were indeed true of most drummers. Before Gene Krupa's time, drummers were generally "noise makers", and largely were known for sound effects in vaudeville shows, OR known for marching in military bands. Either way, drummers were not known for great musical knowledge. This has continued on even to this day, and in reality many drummers perpetuate the stereotype themselves. I was sitting in a music theory class at a jazz camp when I was in high school and another drummer straight up said, "why do I need to know this, I'm a drummer". That's an example of a drummer who perpetuates the stereotype. Most people are a little shocked when they see that I actually know something about music theory, scales, modes, harmonies, etc... Gradually the stereotype is being widdled away, but its been going strong for 100+ years of modern music, so it will take time before it is completely gone if ever. Remember there are stereotypes about every group of people, musicians and otherwise. I just laugh at it lol.
__________________
--and the beat goes on--
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 5,529
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Yes, I was blonde back then ...
Gee Grea!!! ..."blonde" AND a "drummer"... talk about "stereotypes"... your ears must have been ringing a lot back then... :)


...yes, the message is very clear, lol.
__________________
Keep On Drumming
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:26 PM
rogue_drummer's Avatar
rogue_drummer rogue_drummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 1,217
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

I see this attitude mostly from guitar players who have not been playing long or don't have experience gigging much, or large egos - drummers being on the low rung of musicial knowledge and intelligence. So much so that they think they must dictate every note the drummer plays.

When told what and how to play, now I always jack with them and ask them to write the part out using quarter notes, eighth notes, sixteenth notes, etc. because that is how music is written and how I understand rhythm. ALWAYS I get the deer in the headlights look and "Huh?". That always shuts them up.

Brass players tend to be either very friendly or don't talk at all to drummers.

I've found most jazz and blues players and singers period totally respect drummers and are very helpful and totally friendly.

Bass guitar players, I've found, are either very friendly, helpful and approachable, or complete jerks.

Concert and symphony musicians I've found tend not to talk to drummers because they are so worried about their own parts. LOL
__________________
I don't aim to be the best, just the best looking.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:15 PM
SkaaDee SkaaDee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 69
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

African drumming and African music is much more based on rhythm and percussion than European influenced Western music. To imply that music is harmony and melody only is a fallacy. Timbre and rhythm can rule the roost. Then we would be mocking guitarists and keyboard players for not knowing the Mbaba or Kpanlogo.

I guess what I'm saying is Western music evolved with harmony and melody up front but that doesn't mean it had to. So a drummer that doesn't know what a dorian scale is is not less of a musician. We are between worlds.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:55 PM
wildbil wildbil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Awhile back I was banging on the wood pile with two pieces of firewood, I asked my wife what she thought the first instrument ever invented was. Her reply,"Some dude blew into a sea shell.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Otto Otto is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,185
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

...like anyother stereotype...

...and as frequently wrong/right.


Tolerance isn't just for provision to the just.

Intolerance is just against calls for violence or action causing harm....and its up to you to define "causing harm".


Not sure we have an "apartheid" situation on our hands...yet ; )
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:04 PM
NerfLad's Avatar
NerfLad NerfLad is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 660
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_drummer View Post
Brass players tend to be either very friendly or don't talk at all to drummers.

I've found most jazz and blues players and singers period totally respect drummers and are very helpful and totally friendly.

Bass guitar players, I've found, are either very friendly, helpful and approachable, or complete jerks.

Concert and symphony musicians I've found tend not to talk to drummers because they are so worried about their own parts. LOL
All of this is spot on! x)

Fortunately, my band appreciates me as a musician and a drummer. We're all in awe of each others' areas of specialty (yes, we play different instruments, but to extend that further, our individual strengths and weaknesses on our respective instruments compliment each other well, to the point that I don't think any of us could sub out a gig and it still be "us"), and there's absolutely no animosity. It's great!
__________________
Not banned (yet)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowdowner View Post
Mind you, I have a PhD in maths too so maybe I can think of other defences...
Only a PhD? How dumb - ask any novice guitarist ;-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by wesporter View Post
Gradually the stereotype is being widdled away ...
Leaking out, even ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
Gee Grea!!! ..."blonde" AND a "drummer"... talk about "stereotypes"... your ears must have been ringing a lot back then... :)
Hadn't thought of that ... blonde, female and Australian drummer ... talk about evolutionary cul de sacs! Just as well I stopped bleaching ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_drummer View Post
I see this attitude mostly from guitar players who have not been playing long or don't have experience gigging much, or large egos
Hit the nail on the head. Eventually they either gain some experience and start to get it or they give it away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaaDee View Post
I guess what I'm saying is Western music evolved with harmony and melody up front but that doesn't mean it had to. So a drummer that doesn't know what a dorian scale is is not less of a musician. We are between worlds.
Good point (dorian's the root mode, innit?) ... I'd also add "white western music" given what the former slaves in the US did for western music! It's hard to imagine what music would have been like if not for them. We might have been chatting on TimpaniWorld and GlockenspielWorld.
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:06 AM
NerfLad's Avatar
NerfLad NerfLad is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 660
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Dorian is the mode that starts on the major second, if we're speaking in those relative terms (ie. D dorian is all white keys on a piano.)
__________________
Not banned (yet)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:16 AM
Midnite Zephyr's Avatar
Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Surf City, CA
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Hey, what did the drummer get on his math exam???


--Drool
__________________
5A Sticks--Coated Heads--Acoustic Drums--Cast Bronze Cymbals--Heavy-Duty Hardware
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:58 AM
mandrew mandrew is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 723
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Drummer stereotypes. . . . . . . is that like when a drummer types with both hands?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:14 AM
davelan davelan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 63
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

The girls might put up posters of the singer and the boys might idolize the guitarist but everyone dances to the beat.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:42 AM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 5,529
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrew View Post
Drummer stereotypes. . . . . . . is that like when a drummer types with both hands?
Now that was a drummer stereotype post :)
__________________
Keep On Drumming
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:57 AM
sonnygrabber's Avatar
sonnygrabber sonnygrabber is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: As far away as is possible.
Posts: 476
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Get some back!

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/a...1&d=1363571779
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-18-2013, 08:47 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Drummer stereotypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbil View Post
Awhile back I was banging on the wood pile with two pieces of firewood, I asked my wife what she thought the first instrument ever invented was. Her reply,"Some dude blew into a sea shell.
Missed this before - hilarious!
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com