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  #1  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:27 AM
SurrealSound SurrealSound is offline
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Default Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

okay so before i start, i most likely wont be getting the Ks due to their price range. But these two lines of cymbals are what i am looking at to get. I quickly changed interest to the 2002s after i watched a bunch of videos of both the Ks and 2002s, and noticed that the 2002s sounded a little lighter than the Ks. i am pretty much going for a set of cymbals that are light enough to play soft music but i can also step it up to a louder dynamic. i really dont like heavier cymbals since i prefer that splashy,slushy, crisp sound out of cymbals but i am also not trying to get actual light cymbals because i want to be able to get a little louder at times and light cymbals wouldnt last long if i use them harder. i have a few questions though, i am planning on getting 13'' sound edge 2002 hats, 20'' 2002 ride, and a couple of 2002 crashes (16 &18). NOT ''wild'' ,''medium''or ''heavy'' models which the 2002 line also offers but just the regular line which i find to be the lightest. can these cymbals be used for a jazzy sound?
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Very different cymbals.

2002's are very bright, very loud with a lot of upper range cut. K's are mellower and much darker sounding when compared to a 2002.

I've certainly heard 2002's used in a jazz setting before, but because they tend to "cut" more and "blend" less, most guys searching for a more traditional jazz sound will opt for something more along the lines of a K.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

There are many light Ks. In fact, most of them are on the lighter side.

B8 bronze (2002s) is cleaner and brighter typically and less complex than B20 (Ks), which is why 2002s are not as favored for jazz.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:31 AM
SurrealSound SurrealSound is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

i see. my budget is just low. i wish i could get the Ks. so for softer music the Ks would suit me better? it is a 40 dollars difference between the 13'' 2002 and 13'' K hat pair, i guess it aint too bad. as for a 20'' 2002 ride vs 20'' K ride, which would be alot better for a jazzy ride sound? ive found that light ride cymbals tend to be too expensive so im keeping it between these two. i also have 14'' Zildjian A New Beat hi hats. how would you compare those to the Ks? much different?
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:38 AM
SurrealSound SurrealSound is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

ill probably end up going with the K cymbals! i guess the difference between each of them is 40 bucks. whatever, im sure its worth it right?
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurrealSound View Post
so for softer music the Ks would suit me better?
If you're not looking for a cymbal to cut through, then the K's will suit you better than the 2002's. That's not to say you won't hear them, it just means that they are a better choice to sit within the music as opposed to cutting through it.

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Originally Posted by SurrealSound View Post
as for a 20'' 2002 ride vs 20'' K ride, which would be alot better for a jazzy ride sound?
For what you're trying to achieve, the K is probably a better choice.

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Originally Posted by SurrealSound View Post
i also have 14'' Zildjian A New Beat hi hats. how would you compare those to the Ks? much different?
New Beats should be a shade brighter than the K's but not as bright as the 2002's (especially a set of 13" 2002's.....they're quite bright and high pitched).
Great hats. There's really not a lot you can't do with a set of 14" New Beats IMHO. Very versatile hats.

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im sure its worth it right?
That's for you to decide. Every ear is different. Personally I can't get into the K's.....I prefer brighter cymbals......a million others will see it differently.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

+1.You're asking if K's are 40 bucks better?Thats up to you,because if you take 2 Ks of the same size and model,and put them side by side,they will not sound the same.Same character,but different voices altogether.

If the turkish sound is what you like(Zildjian),and a little brighter is what you seek,don't discount A Zildjians,especially 50's/60's/70's vintage.Bosphorus,and Dream also may be what you're looking for.

Try going to mycymbal.com,and listen to some of the sound files,the'll help point you in the right direction.Like PFOG said,Paiste 2002's and K Zildjians,for the most part,are at opposite ends of the sound spectrum.Buy with your ears.

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Old 07-11-2012, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

As far as I'm concerned, comparing K's to 2002 is rather apples to oranges.

As far as price, both are on the expensive side of pro cymbals, so I wouldn't use that as a factor.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Go to a store and play both, and see what they're worth to you.
Also, check used!!!!
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:52 AM
tripp2k tripp2k is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Absolutely buy used. I prefer lighter cymbals. I've owned many Zildjian cymbals but recently gave Paiste a try. I'm now back to Zildjians. I really didn't like the sound coming off the Paistes but did love laying into a 20" crash.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:45 PM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

I thought there were no such thing as truly dark cymbals nowadays - even modern Zildjian K Constantinople's are considered bright?

You have to but 1910's - 1920's cymbals for them to be truly dark, is that not right?
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:25 AM
stranjluv101 stranjluv101 is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

I play Paistes now, but played Zildjian and Sabian combined for over a decade.

I wonder what Zildjian A's you people have heard that are warmer than Paiste 2002's...

I still have a set of A's, and can tell you that the 16" and 18" Medium Crashes are brighter than the 2002 Mediums...that Zildjian 16" is extremely bright IMO. The 22" Ping Ride is comparable to the 2002 Ride, but the Ping is brighter. I also have Medium Thin Crashes, but they really don't have a comparable model in the 2002's. The 2002 Crashes are close in sound, but are a little more full bodied and smoother. 14" New Beats are definitely brighter than 14" 2002 Medium Hats, and those Master Sound hats that are Zildjians answer to Paistes Sound Edges sound shrill and brittle to me!

The 2002's are terrific. Before taking anyone's advice on a forum, go to a store and try them yourself. Or, check out the soundfiles on paiste.com. They are usually almost identical 98% of the time, which is something S and Z can't say. About the only thing I couild warn you about on Paiste's website files are that to me the rides are a little darker than they are in person. But the rest are dead on.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
I wonder what Zildjian A's you people have heard that are warmer than Paiste 2002's...
The initial comparison was between 2002's and the K series which is why I think there is a chasm that seperates the two. However, I still reckon my 2002's are certainly brighter and more cutting than either my A's or A Customs. The gap isn't nearly as wide as with the K's, but I still hear a difference nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
I also have Medium Thin Crashes, but they really don't have a comparable model in the 2002's.
The standard 2002 series is what you seek here. Not the Thins, Mediums, Heavy or Wild etc......the trusty old workhorses marked simply "crash" or "ride" are supposedly medium/ thin.

But again, a cymbals label is really only relative to others within the same series. Paiste calling a crash 'thin" is referenced against a standard crash or even a medium etc of the same model. Given that, there could certainly be some differences between the weight of a Zildjian 18" medium/thin crash and a standard 18" Paiste 2002

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
14" New Beats are definitely brighter than 14" 2002 Medium Hats, and those Master Sound hats that are Zildjians answer to Paistes Sound Edges sound shrill and brittle to me!
Haven't compared my NB's with a 14" medium 2002 hat. I'd be interested to do so after your post. But my 15" SE's are a brighter sounding pair of hats than the New Beats....at least that how my ear hears it. I also have a set of 14" Zildjian Mastersounds.....I gotta agree with you on that front. I don't hear them as shrill, but they do have an "agressive clangyness" about them. They haven't seen the light of day since I bought the SE's.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:02 AM
stranjluv101 stranjluv101 is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
The initial comparison was between 2002's and the K series which is why I think there is a chasm that seperates the two. However, I still reckon my 2002's are certainly brighter and more cutting than either my A's or A Customs. The gap isn't nearly as wide as with the K's, but I still hear a difference nonetheless.
What did you compare between the A/A Custom line and the 2002's? I hear the quite the opposite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
The standard 2002 series is what you seek here. Not the Thins, Mediums, Heavy or Wild etc......the trusty old workhorses marked simply "crash" or "ride" are supposedly medium/ thin.

But again, a cymbals label is really only relative to others within the same series. Paiste calling a crash 'thin" is referenced against a standard crash or even a medium etc of the same model. Given that, there could certainly be some differences between the weight of a Zildjian 18" medium/thin crash and a standard 18" Paiste 2002
The 2002 Crash and Ride are Medium and Medium-Heavy, respectively.(according to Paiste, not me) I own both 18" Medium Thin Crash and 18" Medium Crash A. Zildjians, and the 18" 2002 Crash is closer to the Medium Crash. Just for comparison, the 2002 18" Crash weighs in the neighborhood of 1480g to around 1520g. The 2002 20" Ride weighs around 2400 to around 2440g. What are the comparable Zildjian weights? I'd weigh my 18" Zildjian crashes, but I'm on vacation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Haven't compared my NB's with a 14" medium 2002 hat. I'd be interested to do so after your post. But my 15" SE's are a brighter sounding pair of hats than the New Beats....at least that how my ear hears it. I also have a set of 14" Zildjian Mastersounds.....I gotta agree with you on that front. I don't hear them as shrill, but they do have an "agressive clangyness" about them. They haven't seen the light of day since I bought the SE's.
My 15" 2002 SE's seem dark, but I don't have the 15" NB hats to compare to. They are creamy and get compliments all the time. But, in conclusion, I've owned over 5o Paistes, I own probably 30 still, and IMO, the 2002 line is the warmest of their lines. I always tell someone who is interested in their Dark Energy Crashes to just buy the 2002 equivalent one size up. They are the same weight, almost same pitch, and for a lot less money.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
What did you compare between the A/A Custom line and the 2002's? I hear the quite the opposite.
For a giggle, I just did a test between my 18" crashes that could be pertinent to this discussion. Those being a standard 2002, a medium/thin A, a medium A, an AC and an AC Projection.

My ear hears the 2002 as being the brightest with most cut....especially in the upper ranges. The AC next, but they are apparently thin so it's not a great 'like for like' comparison. Then the AC Projection, with the A med/thin next and the A medium coming in last. I hear more complexity across the mid ranges of the A's than I do with the others.....along with a sustain that sits much further in the lower range of the sound spectrum.

That said, there's no doubt we all hear differently too....pretty much why there are a swag of cymbals on the market and one to suit everyone. If nothing else, this little test has reminded me of why I love them all though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
The 2002 Crash and Ride are Medium and Medium-Heavy, respectively.(according to Paiste, not me) I own both 18" Medium Thin Crash and 18" Medium Crash A. Zildjians, and the 18" 2002 Crash is closer to the Medium Crash. Just for comparison, the 2002 18" Crash weighs in the neighborhood of 1480g to around 1520g. The 2002 20" Ride weighs around 2400 to around 2440g. What are the comparable Zildjian weights? I'd weigh my 18" Zildjian crashes, but I'm on vacation.
The only Paiste ride I own is the 24" Giant Beat. At this stage I can't really compare rides. As for the crashes, my 2002 feels of comparable weight with the A medium/thin as opposed to the A medium. But it's worth noting I don't have scales accurate enough to weigh, so I used that other scientifically approved method of holding a cymbal in each hand and 'balancing them out". When compared to the AC and AC Projection, the 2002 feels somewhere in between. I'm intrigued now......I've really gotta get me some scales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
My 15" 2002 SE's seem dark, but I don't have the 15" NB hats to compare to.
Also did a 14" NB vs 15" SE test for good measure. I still hear the SE's as being brighter and more cutting. But the SE's were new last year and the NB's are from the late eighties, so that may well attribute to some of the discrepancy.

Have no real experience with the Dark Energy et al. My purchase of the Giant Beats about 18 months ago has sent me on a quest for more Paiste B8, so I'm slowly accumulating some 2002's at the moment after playing Zildjian for 25 odd years. I'm too scared to hit any of their other lines (especially the Twenties) in case I get hooked there too. :-)
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:40 AM
stranjluv101 stranjluv101 is offline
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

The Twenty series is sublime. The Crash has a trashy quality that is (of course) more pronounced the bigger they get. I have 16-18-20 Crashes, and that 20" is extremely trashy. IMO they really don't compare to A's, but maybe if an A had a love child with a K.

Since the regular Twenty line has been discontinued, those can be had fairly cheaply here in the States, don't know about Down Under though.

The GB 24" Multi is kinda in a category by itself...I wouldn't even know how to compare that to some other company's cymbal. lol
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranjluv101 View Post
The Twenty series is sublime. The Crash has a trashy quality that is (of course) more pronounced the bigger they get. I have 16-18-20 Crashes, and that 20" is extremely trashy. IMO they really don't compare to A's, but maybe if an A had a love child with a K.

Since the regular Twenty line has been discontinued, those can be had fairly cheaply here in the States, don't know about Down Under though.

The GB 24" Multi is kinda in a category by itself...I wouldn't even know how to compare that to some other company's cymbal. lol
Love the sound Steve Jordan gets from his Twenties....hence why I'm too afraid to hit one, I think I'd be hooked for life. I'll work my way through the B8's I'm interested in first before I look at Paiste B20 I think. The missus is close to flipping her lid as it stands....apparently I have "too many bloody cymbals" as it is.

Nothing is cheap in Oz unfortunately.....least of all Paiste cymbals and Ludwig drums.

Yep, only 15 minutes on the kit and the 24" worked it's way into the prized position of my favourite ride cymbal. It is a joy to the ear.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

I own a newer set of Paiste Sound Edge 14" hats and newer Zildjian New Beat 14" hats. I made a comparison video that may be helpful (or not?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve4ltD0hM4A
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Paiste 2002 vs Zildjian K

Maybe you could look into the Paiste Twenty line? They are a little darker, more complex sounding.

The 2002s are the best cymbals ever in my opinion, but I only use them for rock/pop/funk and such.
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