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  #1  
Old 09-04-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Yesterday my girlfriend and I were out and about, and without even looking I recognized her just by hearing her cough... because it sounded like she was going to hack up a lung. She's been a smoker for about 3 years now.

I don't really mind the smell or taste of cigarette smoke, and if it had no affect on her health I wouldn't have a problem. Her and I have both lost family members to lung cancer and she still seems not to care how bad it is for her. She's polite about it; she doesn't smoke around me very much, and never around my family (which also makes me think she feels guilty about it).

What it boils down to is that I care a lot about her and I hate to see her slowly destroy her health, and I don't know how to convey how badly I wish she would stop without seeming pushy or overbearing; I have mentioned that it bothers me, but I try to be respectful. She has more willpower than anyone I've ever met, and I am positive that if she wanted to quit, she could. The trouble is she doesn't seem to want to :(

Any advice?

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. The problem is - she is an addict. And as such will face the same issues every other addict suffers from.

Either she likes it, and won't stop, thinking you're an idiot or mean because you don't accept her for who she is.

Or she started for some other reason that may no longer apply.

Bottom line, she belongs to RJ Reynolds now (or whatever name they go by). Invest. At least you'll get a dividend every quarter, regardless if she ends up with a stoma or lung cancer.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Start dating someone else....

I don't know. I've never dated a smoker because I can't stand smoking.

But of my friends who've quit, it comes down to, they have to want to quit. No amount of badgering or advice will force them to quit, they have to decide for themselves it's what they really want to do.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I'm a smoker. I don't want to quit because I actually enjoy it.

Therein lies the rub. Your girlfriend won't quit because you ask her to, she'll quite because she wants to. Odd as it may seem, my Mother used to be a smoking cessation counsellor. She wouldn't encourage people to stop smoking until she was sure they were mentally prepared to. If they try without being ready and fail it's not good for the self-esteem.

It's as simple as that. Sooner or later, she'll probably want to stop because she doesn't enjoy it any more. That's when you have to try and support her and help her. Otherwise it won't be successful.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
But of my friends who've quit, it comes down to, they have to want to quit. No amount of badgering or advice will force them to quit, they have to decide for themselves it's what they really want to do.
+1

I quit 1.5 years ago after ~20 years of smoking. It didn't happen until I wanted it to (there were 2 previous attempts that lasted a few months each). I got to an age (~36) where I figured I had to either quit now, or keep going and eventually die from it (and it doesn't look like a pleasant way to go). You can try all the usual arguments: money, health, smell, inconvenience, etc. But if she wants to smoke, she is going to...

The plus side is, 3 years isn't that long, smoking is way less cool/common now than it was even 10 years ago, its way more expensive, and its a lot harder to do logistically (having to go outside all the time is a pain in the ass). Hopefully those things will make it a lot easier for her once she decides she wants to.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Show her this post...at least then she'll see how much it really means to you for her to stop. However, chances are, that unless she's ready to quit, she won't. No matter what you say or do. Actually you're the one who has to make a decision...Can you live with it or not?

Good luck :)
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Take her for a visit to a cancer center.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I would tell her that the longer she puts it off the harder it will be and the more damage she will do to herself. Someone has to want to quit for themselves before it is going to be done.
I stopped about 14 years ago and haven't looked back. The money saved, over a years time will buy you a vacation. But if she doesnt want to quit it wont happen
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

...


Good news - I'm an ex smoker ( pack n half a day ) with the weakest will known to mankind who quit 10 years ago. If I can do it, anyone can. ( I'd smoke stubs off the pavement. )

Bad news- You or anybody else cant do diddlysqat. She has to want it from the inside. Badly.

....
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I also agree that you should look elsewhere for love. Tobacco addiction is an ugly thing. Make an ultimatum - quit or I leave. No use wasting your life possibly taking care of someone who is ill because of smoking. If she doesn't care enough for her health dump her. Now I know it's a free world. And if you're single or your partner also smokes, go for it. WHo cares? Secondhand smoke can also cause lung cancer. Your own health and happiness is #1. Drumming #2. Love #3. Good luck.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

After only smoking for 3 years, she still has time on her side. I've been smoking for 40 years, & I'm screwed up on it.

I guarantee I'm weaker willed than Abe :(
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I've been smoking for 40 years, & I'm screwed up on it.
Same here :( ... and despite several requests from my daughter, I still haven't given up yet, been smoking rolled up cigarettes for the the last 20 odd years, will I ever give up?

The willpower has to come from those who smoke, no comments, advices, warnings, etc, will make someone stops, even if it's meant well, with great concern by the one we love.

I did an attempt at quitting a few years ago, it lasted a mere six months before I started again, sad really...
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Originally Posted by larryz View Post
I also agree that you should look elsewhere for love. Tobacco addiction is an ugly thing. Make an ultimatum - quit or I leave. No use wasting your life possibly taking care of someone who is ill because of smoking.
Yeah, getting adversarial is a GREAT idea. I want to help and support her, not teach her some lesson "the hard way". Thanks for playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryO View Post
Show her this post...at least then she'll see how much it really means to you for her to stop. However, chances are, that unless she's ready to quit, she won't. No matter what you say or do. Actually you're the one who has to make a decision...Can you live with it or not?

Good luck :)
Thanks! I guess I will show it to her tonight and see what she says.
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Originally Posted by JasperGTR View Post
Invest. At least you'll get a dividend every quarter, regardless if she ends up with a stoma or lung cancer.
I laughed out loud at this and mentioned it to her that I heard someone say it (didn't say where) and she also thought it was hysterical. :)
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

i got my mom to quit in the 80s.

how did i do it (me a ten year old)?

i pushed a toothpick into the centre of each of her fags. these were those very thin toothpicks. i did each one really carefully so they didn't show. the smoke was so harsh i remember battling not to laugh as i watched mum suffer through each drag. she didn't even get through half the pack before chucking 'em and never starting up again.

my sister got my dad to quit too. he lived in another city. she did it by stealing a few fags here and there and throwing them under my dad's bar. she beleived my dad would think that cigarettes were too expensive after a while - but he is a company director so no dice. a year later my dad decided to demolish the bar and found about 100 mould cover ciggs under it. she confessed and cried and my dad was so ashamed he quit.

j
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Originally Posted by NerfLad View Post
Yeah, getting adversarial is a GREAT idea. I want to help and support her, not teach her some lesson "the hard way". Thanks for playing.
You're a young lad. There are many other fish in the vast oceans. Why start having to deal with someone's habit already, so early in life? Eh... Keep drumming :)
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Give her a case of pneumonia..... just kidding but it did work for me. I have tried to quit many times before. January of this year i had the flu. By February it turned into pneumonia. THen they found a spot on my lung. After many test they decided to take it out to see what is was. July 20 they took my upper right lobe of my lung out and 30 lymph nodes. It turned out to be a carcinoid tumor. Its a very rare form of cancer. But it is not as aggressive as other forms of lung cancer. And was not caused from smoking. Im still recovering from the surgery. I am 38 and smoked since i was 16. But i have not had a smoke since Feb 5 this year. And have not wanted one. I wish you and her the best. THis is just my story. Some people smoke for 70 years and never have problems. I had a real scare and it has sobered me up in many ways.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I forgot to say........ I credit the flu and pneumonia for helping my quit. I was so sick i couldnt smoke.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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I forgot to say........ I credit the flu and pneumonia for helping my quit. I was so sick i couldnt smoke.
This was how I quit too, not as severe as his story, I just had a simple cold, but it was enough to make me not want to smoke for a few days, then I just never started again (the two previous attempts were done this way too). Another thing to prep yourself for quitting is to make it harder on yourself by not allowing yourself to smoke IN your home, or car. This makes your environment cleaner, and makes smoking a chore.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

To her, or anyone else looking to quit, find The Easy Way to Stop Smoking" by Allen Carr. You can find it on amazon. The reviews speak for themselves. I went from 1.5 packs a day to none. Painlessly and with nothing less than sheer joy to be free from that trap.

I have an old friend who says "cancer scares, fear and facts do nothing for the smoker. The smoker knows 1000x more about the addiction and harm than anyone."

The book does none of this. It demystifies, it removes the romance and tells you the truth. It's a lie smokers have bought into long ago. The idea that you need it or enjoy it. I encourage anyone who's even thought of quitting to buy the book.

He has a short film on YouTube where goes over his method. Just google his name.

The only thing that was negative to me while quitting, was the shame of letting it go on for so long.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Originally Posted by NerfLad View Post
Yeah, getting adversarial is a GREAT idea. I want to help and support her, not teach her some lesson "the hard way". Thanks for playing.
More often than not the hard is the only way when it comes to addiction. I friend was a pretty hard alcoholic for a long while. Then one day we found him on the bathroom floor in a pool of blood and vomit, dehydrated, and passed out. We rushed him to the hospital, he woke up and he made to commitment then to stop drinking.

No one ever wants it to go that far, especially with our loved ones, but as many others have said, the will to change has to originate with the addict. A brush with death, or a great personal loss is a powerful motivator. Sometimes the right thing to do is to simply not tolerate destructive behavior and leave rather than try to fix it, because if you try to do too much, you'll push it too far, and she'll leave you.

"Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy." - Prof Dumbledore.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

The 2 choices I see are to accept her like she is, smoke and all, or explain to her that it's a dealbreaker and give her an ultimatum, cigs or you. I wouldn't bet on it sticking, but hey, you never know.

I don't know that there's a middle ground, unless you're the kind that can enforce rules on her, such as no smoking when you are around, not in the house, not in your car, not after sex etc.

I think it's appalling how the government sanctions this harmful product. She is exactly the way our leaders want us, unhealthy and dependent on their drugs.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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I think it's appalling how the government sanctions this harmful product. She is exactly the way our leaders want us, unhealthy and dependent on their drugs.
You really want the government telling us what is good for us? What about cigars? Chew? Alcohol (they tried that before)? Caffeine? Marijuana (ooops, too late)?
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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You really want the government telling us what is good for us? What about cigars? Chew? Alcohol (they tried that before)? Caffeine? Marijuana (ooops, too late)?
Your last three choices aren't even in the same ballpark. Alcohol, caffeine and marijuana don't cause illnesses with even high-moderate usage.

I get what you're saying, but comparing something as horrible as tobacco to caffeine is atrocious.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Your last three choices aren't even in the same ballpark. Alcohol, caffeine and marijuana don't cause illnesses with even high-moderate usage.

I get what you're saying, but comparing something as horrible as tobacco to caffeine is atrocious.
I know, but my point is I don't want the government making that choice and drawing that line for me. Put the information out there and let people make their own choices.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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I know, but my point is I don't want the government making that choice and drawing that line for me. Put the information out there and let people make their own choices.
My mistake. I can dig it!
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Yeah, getting adversarial is a GREAT idea. I want to help and support her, not teach her some lesson "the hard way".
I'm sure he was just trying to help. No need to get juvenile.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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The 2 choices I see are to accept her like she is, smoke and all, or explain to her that it's a dealbreaker and give her an ultimatum, cigs or you. I wouldn't bet on it sticking, but hey, you never know.

I don't know that there's a middle ground, unless you're the kind that can enforce rules on her, such as no smoking when you are around, not in the house, not in your car, not after sex etc.

I think it's appalling how the government sanctions this harmful product. She is exactly the way our leaders want us, unhealthy and dependent on their drugs.
Ah, Larry's back and with great advice as usual. :) I wondered where you were. But yes, the government likes us sick and addicted. Or the judges do I should say, who repealed graphic images on cig packs to deter smoking. Anyway, when I was 16 a guy who talked out of a hole in his throat due to cancer/smoking spoke at my grade school. That frightened the hell out of me so much I didn't dare go near cigs. There are better vices out there - drumming, women, running, juicing, erotica, our planet .. just my 2 cents. (and thanks AgentOrange ... I did mean well...)
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

I have COPD.My condition is improving,but I still have bad days.Smoking is an addiction,and you really have to want to quit.

If you want to know what it's like trying to breathe sometimes.just take in a deep breath....hold it for as long as you can....and then try to take in another deep breath.You can't.Pretty scary stuff.

Here's another one.You know those skinny little straws you get with a mixed drink in a bar?Try breathing through one for a while.Best of luck.

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 09-06-2012 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Google: Smokers lungs after 3 years. have her take a look at that I quit 13 years ago after smoking for 27 years. I still cant get my wife to quit it is something you really have to want to do
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Yeah, getting adversarial is a GREAT idea. I want to help and support her, not teach her some lesson "the hard way". Thanks for playing.
May I just apologize for showing my ass here? Thanks for the input, everyone. I really didn't mean to be so rude.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Sometimes getting adversarial is a good plan. Nothing shows her you love her more than you getting upset with her. After all it is for her own good.

Smoking ages you quick. I can spot a smoker a mile away. They stink and they look bad. They should make something you can take that makes you violently ill if you smoke.

I truly despise tobacco products and especially the whole government/tobacco industry for poisoning the public.

Unfortunately, you don't have a whole lot of control here. If you don't plan on marrying this person, just accept it. If you do want to marry her...try dumping her for a bit. Make it clear that the reason is cigarettes. If she changes, get her back. If she doesn't...move on.

I know that's easy for me to say, but these are the kinds of bad choices that can be avoided. She is not the only person in the world that would suit you.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Try as you might, unless she makes that conscious decision to let 'em go......it just ain't gonna work. You can yell and scream and rant and rave until the cows come home. What's it gonna change? There's not a smoker alive who is stupid enough to believe that what they're doing is not causing them damage. Yet still they smoke, so what does that tell us about the mental aspect of addiction?

I love it too. Have done for years and only in the last few months have I had the change of mindset to put them down and make a diligent attempt to give 'em away. Still, it took me until last week to actually take the plunge.....and let me tell you, it's friggen hard. I crave them everyday....several times a day, but I'm determined to be strong. But it was indeed my conscious decision that's allowed me to even try. Anything others have said has fallen on deaf ears for years. My wife is an ex smoker, my old man is an ex smoker, my best mate is an ex smoker....all of them have harped on incessantly over the years. Do you honestly reckon any of it made a pinch of difference at the time? Despite knowing the dangers and in spite of their constant pissing and moaning, it still wasn't enough to get me to stop. I've had to come to that decision for myself.

I had to want to do it.......so does she.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Try as you might, unless she makes that conscious decision to let 'em go......it just ain't gonna work. You can yell and scream and rant and rave until the cows come home. What's it gonna change? There's not a smoker alive who is stupid enough to believe that what they're doing is not causing them damage. Yet still they smoke, so what does that tell us about the mental aspect of addiction?

I love it too. Have done for years and only in the last few months have I had the change of mindset to put them down and make a diligent attempt to give 'em away. Still, it took me until last week to actually take the plunge.....and let me tell you, it's friggen hard. I crave them everyday....several times a day, but I'm determined to be strong. But it was indeed my conscious decision that's allowed me to even try. Anything others have said has fallen on deaf ears for years. My wife is an ex smoker, my old man is an ex smoker, my best mate is an ex smoker....all of them have harped on incessantly over the years. Do you honestly reckon any of it made a pinch of difference at the time? Despite knowing the dangers and in spite of their constant pissing and moaning, it still wasn't enough to get me to stop. I've had to come to that decision for myself.

I had to want to do it.......so does she.
Well first of all, congratulations!
I wish there was a way for me to... help her to want to; I'm really into her and don't want to give her up over something like this. She's one of the most intelligent, caring, insightful, intellectually challenging, hard working, mature people I've ever met, and certainly that I've ever had a relationship with. I wish I could describe her to you. She's also adorable, for what that's worth.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Well first of all, congratulations!
I wish there was a way for me to... help her to want to; I'm really into her and don't want to give her up over something like this. She's one of the most intelligent, caring, insightful, intellectually challenging, hard working, mature people I've ever met, and certainly that I've ever had a relationship with. I wish I could describe her to you. She's also adorable, for what that's worth.
Again...I hate to sound like a broken record but I really hope you are telling HER all of the things you are telling us! She needs to know why you care so much about whether she smokes or not. Telling us won't do any good, telling her might.

Although everyone else is right, unless she's ready, you're still fighting a losing battle. :(
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Yes, adorable is important! Hopefully after talking with her she'll realize that her health is important to you, and what a talented kickass drummer she has in a boyfriend. And one with such a well balanced drum collection too.

Ah, to be young again...
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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Yes, adorable is important! Hopefully after talking with her she'll realize that her health is important to you, and what a talented kickass drummer she has in a boyfriend. And one with such a well balanced drum collection too.

Ah, to be young again...
I'm going to need to deflate my head after reading that... Thanks Uncle Larry. (Totally calling you that from now on)
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

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I'm going to need to deflate my head after reading that... Thanks Uncle Larry. (Totally calling you that from now on)
I'd call him that but then it's just creepy! Lol

So how's it going with the gf? Any luck?
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

It's going great, but she's a smoker! :P
Haha, well actually she decided to stop smoking menthols and only smokes American Spirits which have cotton filters and no chemicals as far as I know. I still don't consider that a huge step since she is still lighting up pretty frequently...

I'll update if she decides to make any progress. Thanks for the continued interest and support.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Field trip to a cancer ward?

...but its far easier to realize why to leave a partner than it is to realize smoking sucks...especially when the partner challenges an addiction with a seratonin profile rivaling heroin/cocain/meth.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: How can I get my girlfriend to see how badly she needs to quit smoking?

Follow me here.

Is smoking inherently bad? I honestly think challenging peoples' worldviews at a core level does more to change habits than just dealing with symptoms ( addiction, whatever it may be, smoking, porn, gluttony, tv, friends... anything can be)

The previous statement is only qualified if we live in a closed system of absolutes (metaphysical, moral, spiritual et. al) if we don't, then anything we do is simply preference, and carries no greater weight than whatever value we put on it, but only on a personal level, never impositional (is that a word, that's a word, right?) meaning you can't turn to someone and say suicide bombing is bad, only that my preference is for it not to happen... (A lot of that I would suggest reading up on if two plus two is making five, if I or someone opposed to that idea were to justify or deny it's premise adequately we'd probably crash the server)

Why can I not? because the greatest authority we have is 'us'. The standards made are simply a person saying, or people banding together for whichever motive they desire and making laws, rules, codes, beliefs, whatever by numbers or force or cleverness or whatever else. There still is no absolute basis for those laws, even if a majority say so, and so imposing on another is unjust (ironically though without absolutes you can't even define 'just') (Also there is a huge difference between us placing a value on something and its actual intrinsic value apart from our ideologies)

Where am I going? A little further down the rabbit hole...

If you can't honestly present a case to someone that what they do is inherently wrong, and you aren't actually convinced of the same yourself, then you're in the wrong (another term we can not actually define if we have no absolutes), because you're simply imposing a preference on someone else, which has no basis other than what I want for your life is better than what you want, because I said so.

In context, if I can't come to someone and define poor health and death as bad, smoking as a cause of both of those, and addiction as a cause of the smoking, then I'm on shaky ground ---(In this instance it doesn't bother me about their response eg. I like smoking, because when I was a druggie smoking pot, eating mushies and smoking P (our term for meth) I liked it, but it doesn't mean it was good for me. I just honestly thought that was the best life had to offer. Nor though am I saying that that is a pattern and everyone thinks that way, just giving some balls to my statement)--- because I'm just imposing what I want on them without being able to give a solid answer as to why.

Because they'll live a poorer life than they could have? So what, what value is life?
Because they could die? So what, what power does death have?
Because you don;t like it? So what, why are your values better than mine?

If however suicide bombing is inherently bad, evil at its core, then I would do whatever I could to stop it in my power without worrying about the implications of what my actions have on those trying to impose evil. (Not entirely true, in a real sense I would always prefer that they 'repented', but if they don't I'm not going to burn a bra over it)

If they are born of nothing more than circumstance and their genes simply define who they are and what they do, automatons at an organic level, then let fate simply take its course.

Depressing, confusing, whaaaaaat?

All I'm saying is this, if you aren't convinced of what you believe no one else will be. The absolute conviction of who you are and what you believe shakes people exponentially more than mere opinion, even if that's all they ever deem it as.

Now that I've spouted a bunch of ideas, how I apply that to every situation I ever come to is this; (And believe me, this is a learning basis, I don't magically just do it, I really have to work at this with some dushe ba.... er people :)

Love them where they're at. Broken or not, right or wrong, hating on you or loving you, love them. Doesn't mean line their pockets and serenade them with pleasantries, it means harbour (yes, o U r, queens English) in your heart when you approach them that you want the utmost for them. You want them to come away from this situation feeling as accepted and welcome and good as possible.

Then, for the next thing that seems totally contradictory

Tell them the truth. What you believe, why you believe it, all in love. Sometimes people take it on, sometimes they don't, sometimes they feel loved, sometimes they feel hated, but it never means you didn't love them... It just means the truth hurts and they'd rather dwell in their darkened understanding because it's safe.

Now I know this may step on the toes of many peoples worldviews and personal practices, that's fine, that's the beauty of free will and opinions... the point is to not get offended. So if I have... tough titties... I love you :D

And seriously, yes, if someone I loved had any issue that was worthy of my intervention however small in the worlds eyes I would give it that much thought, not forgetting that for all that typing that whole chain of thinking happens in the blink of an eye.

And yes I can see about ten loose ends that should have been addressed here but I mean really, look how long this is already.
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