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  #1  
Old 06-26-2012, 05:57 AM
scott brunson scott brunson is offline
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Default suspension mounts

propoganda and another accesory not needed...
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: suspension mounts

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Originally Posted by scott brunson View Post
propoganda and another accesory not needed...
...unless you're looking to take off the resonance-inhibiting hardware that's on your drums, and find that an extra snare stand is too bulky to haul around. Then, they're a great alternative!
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: suspension mounts

I kinda went back and forth on them in the beginning until Tama actually designed a nice one that looks like it belongs there. When the early RIMS system came out, I got the concept, but I too, hated the look. It does make a difference to a point, but I had always been able to tune the drum to sound great regardless anyway, which is why I could take them or leave them. But the first time I saw Tama's design, which I enjoyed on a Starclassic Bubinga Elite kit, and now on a Starclassic Birch/Bubinga kit, it doesn't look like an appendage to the drum and does the job very well, so I like it. Other systems weren't that great, Pearl's ISS I didn't like, Yamaha's is ok. When I had a DW kit, they had that black or chrome band that spanned the drum and gripped around the round lugs, which was ok too.

But part of me says that if you know how to tune a drum, you can still get it to resonate freely. I did that for 20 years before this resonance thing really took hold, too.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:04 AM
cutaway79 cutaway79 is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

I think it all depends on the drum, and how it's mounted.

For instance, I have a carbon fiber kit by Rocket Shells. All the toms are mounted on Gauger RIMS, and sound great. However, when I tried using Pearl Optimounts on them, they felt more rigid (not like the bounce you get with RIMS) when I played them, and lost a lot of resonance and depth. I haven't technically used them with mounts drilled right into the shell, but this does illustrate that the type of mounting CAN make a difference.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I recently purchased a 1985 Yamaha Recording Custom kit (pre-YESS), and those toms sound amazing with their mounts drilled right into the shell. One thing I did notice though, is that on the smaller, less (naturally) resonant toms, the further in the drum the rod goes, the more depth and resonance you lose. This is very noticeable on my 10" tom, but my 13" is almost all the way up to the hilt on its mount, and seems to be doing just fine, and even needs half a Moon Gel to keep its resonance in check. Who knows though? Maybe some RIMS would make them sound even better. I just like not having all that extra weight/mass on my drums.

All that being said, I've never played a tom on a snare stand that didn't lose some resonance as soon as it was placed in the basket, even with the arms very loose.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: suspension mounts

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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
I think it all depends on the drum, and how it's mounted.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I recently purchased a 1985 Yamaha Recording Custom kit (pre-YESS), and those toms sound amazing with their mounts drilled right into the shell. One thing I did notice though, is that on the smaller, less (naturally) resonant toms, the further in the drum the rod goes, the more depth and resonance you lose. This is very noticeable on my 10" tom, but my 13" is almost all the way up to the hilt on its mount, and seems to be doing just fine, and even needs half a Moon Gel to keep its resonance in check. Who knows though? Maybe some RIMS would make them sound even better. I just like not having all that extra weight/mass on my drums.
I share your opinion and your experience, and I agree with those who say that if you know how to tune a drum, you can get a good sound AND volume even without suspension mounts. That said, I also noticed that in many cases the use of suspension mounts effectively improves the sound quality or, at least, the sustain of toms.

Concerning the pre-YESS Yamaha mounting system, which I have still installed on a couple of Tamburo Original sets, I noticed that you can get a lot of sustain and volume simply by slightly loosening the wing nut of the toms, so that the toms themselves can vibrate a little bit more. Of course, it is important to tighten the wing nuts just enough so that they do not rattle. I don't know whether this option could be used by heavy hitters, but I regularly adopt it and my toms do not slip back and forward on their mounts.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:52 PM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

I'm not going to post up an enormous essay about this but I have quite strong feelings on this subject.

Suspension mounts do work. Most of the time they do what they are intended to do - allow the drum to resonate more freely. However, I don't think it's actually that important and on ply drums the difference is noticeable but fairly irrelevant - particularly on larger toms. I've never had any issue getting resonance out of any of my intrusively-mounted toms (all sporting old-fashioned Yamaha mounts) and I question the value of systems that add bulk and mass, as well as fragility to the whole system. In my experience, they're a trade-off that isn't worth it - so just drill the shell and put the Yamaha system I adore on there.

When it comes to stave and steambent, it's an entirely different animal. Those drums are much more sensitive to small changes - especially in mounting. I will vouch that suspension systems on these sorts of drums are absolutely worthwhile and it does make a significant difference to the performance of the drum. I've played a few kits like this and discussed the issue and despite my cynicism initially, I definitely became a believer in suspension mounts in this circumstance.

Then there are those that discuss how their drums have suspension mounts, or radial bridge technology (etc) and then put two-ply pre-muffled heads on. Give me a break. Go and do your research. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:27 PM
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Bad Tempered Clavier Bad Tempered Clavier is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

Isn't "propaganda" a pretty strong term? So there's some kind of conspiracy between the manufacturers to offload this surplus of chrome they have cluttering up their warehouses? If that's the case, as someone just mentioned, why wouldn't they persuade drummers to use snare baskets for small toms and legs for floor toms? Surely snare stands and FT legs need more raw materials and can be sold at a higher price than suspension mounts?
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2012, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: suspension mounts

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Then there are those that discuss how their drums have suspension mounts, or radial bridge technology (etc) and then put two-ply pre-muffled heads on. Give me a break. Go and do your research. You can't have it both ways.
I agree 100% on that one, why spend thousands on a high end kit to get a warm resonant tone just to kill it by putting pinstripes on it.

Also not only can suspension mounts increase resonance but they can also reduce odd harmonic overtones to a certain degree by removing or at least evening out some of the mounting stress.

I was also talking to the guys at Boogie Woodie a few days ago and they have been playing around with different mounting systems and found that the stress from one sided mounting actually chokes the drum somewhat as compared to mounting systems that distribute the stress evenly around the drum.
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  #9  
Old 06-26-2012, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: suspension mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Then there are those that discuss how their drums have suspension mounts, or radial bridge technology (etc) and then put two-ply pre-muffled heads on. Give me a break. Go and do your research. You can't have it both ways.
This has always been my position, as well. Although I think someone who knows much more than me (like KIS) pointed out that head and shell resonance are different things, so my take on the subject may be flawed. But even if I'm wrong, watching a guy talk up his virgin bass drum that he subsequently stuffs with a pillow never fails to amuse me.
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2012, 05:36 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

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Originally Posted by scott brunson View Post
propoganda and another accesory not needed...
I agree that they are not needed, although I do like the Mapex tom mounting system. On my Gretsch Catalina Club Jazz I removed the awful Mini GTS mounting system and atttached the tom mount directly to the 12" tom, which now sounds better than ever. Peace and goodwill.
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  #11  
Old 06-26-2012, 05:38 PM
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Skulmoski Skulmoski is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

Works for me and my USA Customs; no complaints.

GJS
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:15 PM
scott brunson scott brunson is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

then why are floor toms ok sitting on three legs grounded to the floor???
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:22 PM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: suspension mounts

Scott - with respect - you're not providing an argument. You're simply making statements with little or no backing to substantiate your point. If you intend to be inflammatory, you're going the right way about it even though I largely agree with you. Step up to the mark and tell us why you think these things.

Floor toms don't always come with three feet on the floor. There are floating floor toms with mounts, there are special suspension baskets and even special floor tom feet that you can fit aftermarket. I don't think the advantages are really worth it myself - but you're not providing any kind of impetus for discussion.
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