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  #1  
Old 06-21-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

They seem to be so popular, i was just wondering what everyones view on them is. I think they are unnatural, destroy rhythm and on the whole are totally unnecessary. Any thoughts?
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Yes, I have a thought. Do some search on this topic and you'll find stuff/opinions to read for... weeks, guaranteed.

If you don't like them... Why do you even bother to create a thread on them? (I'm not really curious, this was more of a rhetoric question.) Just don't use them, don't learn how to use them, and save yourself a lot of time.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

A double kick pedal is a tool. How can a tool destroy rhythm?

I agree there are lots of drummers that overuse the double-kick, but there's a hell of a lot of musicians that sounds awesome with it, either in beats, fills, or ambiance.

Some people use it sparingly, others use it as a signature part of what they do. It comes down to personal taste... there is no right or wrong.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
They seem to be so popular, i was just wondering what everyones view on them is. I think they are unnatural, destroy rhythm and on the whole are totally unnecessary. Any thoughts?
How are they unnatural, and how do they destroy rhythm? Should you play one-handed? Should all music be Def Leppard's greatest hits? (too much?)

Seriously, why can I play rudiments and rolls with my hands and not my feet. Music is all about playing to a feel, being original, adding variety to rhythms and melodic patterns - how is adding an extra limb to proceedings a bad thing?

Please could you justify the statements you make? So I can understand why you feel that way.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

was just asking a question mate. i dont know many other drummers so i was interested in everyone elses opinion on the subject. sorry i offended you so. go save yourself some time by not being a total asshole
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Netz Ausg View Post
How are they unnatural, and how do they destroy rhythm? Should you play one-handed? Should all music be Def Leppard's greatest hits? (too much?)

Seriously, why can I play rudiments and rolls with my hands and not my feet. Music is all about playing to a feel, being original, adding variety to rhythms and melodic patterns - how is adding an extra limb to proceedings a bad thing?

Please could you justify the statements you make? So I can understand why you feel that way.
I mean in the sense that ive heard many drummers use them. And they just seem to be used to fill in gaps. Im not saying anyone who uses them is a lesser drummer, i just feel that in music what you don't play is as important as what you do.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
I mean in the sense that ive heard many drummers use them. And they just seem to be used to fill in gaps. Im not saying anyone who uses them is a lesser drummer, i just feel that in music what you don't play is as important as what you do.
Depends on the song, genre, etc.

I completely agree that often less is more. What if the gaps are there to allow the drummer to embellish a bit? Would it make any difference whether he played a tom fill, or a double-kick fill, or a combination of the two?

The question of overplaying in a song is not limited to double-kick, but musicality in general, regardless of the tools being used.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Talent View Post
A double kick pedal is a tool. How can a tool destroy rhythm?

I agree there are lots of drummers that overuse the double-kick, but there's a hell of a lot of musicians that sounds awesome with it, either in beats, fills, or ambiance.

Some people use it sparingly, others use it as a signature part of what they do. It comes down to personal taste... there is no right or wrong.
yeah i totally agree, but most of the time they arent used sparingly. drummers seem to buy them and use them for the purpose of being able to do something really fast. example would be filling a song with 16th notes with a double bass drum. there is no space when a double bass pedal is over used, no one would do that with a single pedal
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Xero Talent View Post
The question of overplaying in a song is not limited to double-kick, but musicality in general, regardless of the tools being used.
also agreed but generally nobody would fill a song with toms played like a double pedal is. i think double pedals are the main culprit for overplaying in modern rock music
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
.... go save yourself some time by not being a total ***hole
Might wanna read the rules of this forum http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/a...ement.php?f=26
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
also agreed but generally nobody would fill a song with toms played like a double pedal is. i think double pedals are the main culprit for overplaying in modern rock music
I don't necessarily agree. Maybe sometimes, but that's a pretty broad statement over just one item of a drum kit.

With regards to overplaying in modern rock, I think guitars, overdubbing, synths, and overproduction play a bigger part in that than the poor double kick. And really, I don't hear a lot of double kick in modern rock; do you have examples of what you mean?
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Totally depends on the genre. In some genres double pedals are completely necessary.
Anyhow, that does not keep me from saying that I think double pedal playing sounds uninspired, unrhythmic, buttery (in a bad way). To me, most double bass playing sound like a bad drummer added a second pedal just so people can THINK that he can play fast.

----- NO HATING ON ME PLEASE -----

Just my subjective opinion. Playing fast with a single pedal is 1000000000000x times cooler and groovier.

^^^^^All of the above are MY OPINIONS ONLY and there is no need to hate on me for saying what I think.^^^^^
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Might wanna read the rules of this forum http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/a...ement.php?f=26
Yeah, apologies. Just didnt expect to be instantly berated by a pretentious fool
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

(I should add that my hating towards double pedals is heavily inspired by the fact that I never learned how to play with a double pedal. So jealousy is a big part of my contempt for double pedals.)

Peace.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Swexx View Post
Totally depends on the genre. In some genres double pedals are completely necessary.
Anyhow, that does not keep me from saying that I think double pedal playing sounds uninspired, unrhythmic, buttery (in a bad way). To me, most double bass playing sound like a bad drummer added a second pedal just so people can THINK that he can play fast.

----- NO HATING ON ME PLEASE -----

Just my subjective opinion. Playing fast with a single pedal is 1000000000000x times cooler and groovier.

^^^^^All of the above are MY OPINIONS ONLY and there is no need to hate on me for saying what I think.^^^^^

Thank you! i was wondering if anyone was going to agree with me
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
Thank you! i was wondering if anyone was going to agree with me
Well, you'll usually find at least a "few" people who will agree, on just about any subject. As for me, I look at the double bass pedal, as a back saver. When I started playing drums (in the dark ages) ..... there was no double bass pedal. You carried around two bass drums. Gee .... it's the largest drum in my kit .... I think I'll drag around two. That'll be fun. And then, I'll have to buy a truck !!!!
And, of course, the first double pedals were, ah .... kinda sloppy. But, like any tool, some people use it really, really well, and some don't. Tony Williams, on his last album, went double bass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJYb...eature=related . Simon Phillips does a pretty good job of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGL5rpFi_nI (around 8:30 is where the fun really starts).
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

I had the opposite reaction from Harry: I got a double pedal, and then liked it so much I went old skool and got a kit with two bass drums. I just like the look of all those drums and I already own a truck so moving it around wasn't that big of a deal.

However, you're right, I didn't always use the two bass drums to play things fast and when you look at the practicality of carrying around a whole extra bass drum just to aide in maybe 5% of the music you're playing, it does get to be a bit much. So I slowly started not using it, but it looked great in my practice room. And being primarily a single bass drum player, I always revisit my roots and go back to a single on a four-piece kit. I'm cyclicle that way.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

My only kit, with two kicks (matching make/color) is my Luddie Red Vistalite kit. I have a 22 and 24. Kinda wanna do more of a two-voice thang. Like Will Calhoun and Dave Weckl. Wish I could play like those guys (maybe in another lifetime). I carried aroung two kicks from about 1975 to 1983. And that was enough, for me. It's one thing to have 'em in my studio .... and another to lug 'em around. And with my recent double-total-hip-replacement, the only kick I'm lugging around right now is my 20" Club Date.
My first influences on twin kicks, were Ginger Baker and Carmine Appice. And then I got an eye and earful of a very young Billy Cobham 1972/73, and holy smoke, changed my life forever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k_w7...eature=related This was not Rock and Roll.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

i think double pedals are the main culprit for overplaying in modern rock music


If you've haven't noticed, the trend here on DW isn't to come out diss'n, its just start a 'boycott double pedals' thread.

It 'is' the style of music that dictates what gear you're probably going to use. You're not going to hear a lot of double pedal work in country music, or reggae for instance, but DP's are standard equipment in other styles like metal.

Musicians don't like playing a certain genera/style not b/c its music, its b/c they don't understand it and/or they haven't put the time into playing it, usually b/c it doesn't come as easy to them.

In the end its all music and if you're a (good) musician you'll find something to love in any style.



I carried aroung two kicks from about 1975 to 1983. And that was enough, for me.

OK HARRY, but the real question is-
If you had a roadie/tech any/every gig, would you be playing two bass drums again?
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
Yeah, apologies. Just didnt expect to be instantly berated by a pretentious fool
With all due respect, I have to say I saw it as the other way around. Your original post definitely berated me (and likely him) as a double bass player. Being interested in other drummers opinions on double bass, he gave you his: that he doesn't feel they are unnatural, or destroy rhythm, making the connection between playing with two hands, and being able to play with two feet.

Then he asked for a justification of your opinion, essentially asking why you feel double bass is such a bad thing. I don't think he was out of line at all for asking that. I DO feel your subsequent response was out of line.

As for me, I like my double bass, a section of a song with sustained 32nd notes can be awesome, and even if you're not into that sort of thing, without a double pedal, you can't add in a burst of say eight 32nd notes that lead into a big backbeat, or anything like that.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
OK HARRY, but the real question is-
If you had a roadie/tech any/every gig, would you be playing two bass drums again?
Probably not. Just my single 26x16, 13 (or 14), 16, 18 kit wound suffice. That 75-83 stint was as much about "fashion" as it was "having the right tools". People hardly paid attention to bands in L.A. unless there was a double bass kit on stage. Once "grunge" hit, it switched, double kicks suddenly became "not hip", unless you were a big name guy (then it didn't matter). Now, if I need a double, I've got my Sleishman pedals.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Yep.....straight from the pit of hell. At least the "Devil's Hoof" pedals are: http://www.czarciekopyto.com/

Sleishman on the other hand.....like all things Aussie.....are as pure as the driven snow.

FWIW, I don't think they are "unnatural, destroy rhythm and on the whole are totally unnecessary" at all. Any fault or lack of musicality lies with the player, not the pedal.....even if there are two of them.
Too many tatseful and musically appropriate examples of double pedal use for me to think otherwise.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Im a double bass player. I play a lot of metal. I agree some drummers get a double pedal and right away think their awsome but their are some drummers who use double bass and are amazing. Derek roddy, george kollias, chris adler,jon rice and alex rudinger are all amazing drummers that use double bass..... Theres my 2˘
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
Any thoughts?
Yeah I got one but you ain't gonna like it lol...

Ok screw it I'll say it anyway, your thread is nothing but a negative thought provoking troll post to get a "discussion" going that you know damn well will end up just how it has already. So sick of fake wanna-be hardcore drummers who "don't get" what double pedal's are all about and even look down their nose at those who don't just use a single pedal to do doubles, trips or quads. Get over your selves.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Sleishman on the other hand.....like all things Aussie.....are as pure as the driven snow.
I played Off-Sets for a few years. Then, I think it was 2005, Sleishman was at the NAMM show, for the first time .... and I got my feet on their pedals. Game over. Bought the Sleishman's. Sold the Off-Sets. No regrets.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

IMO,Double bass pedals are like a screwdrivers...either you use it the right way or you get screwed HAHA!

But then again like most things in drumming it's all about personal preferences.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Any fault or lack of musicality lies with the player, not the pedal.....even if there are two of them.
Too many tatseful and musically appropriate examples of double pedal use for me to think otherwise.
You are totally right. Some players rock with double pedals. But I have seen many, many people using the double pedal as an excuse for not being able to play with a single pedal. The double pedal itself I'm sure is great, but too many bad players have ruined its soul in my opinion.

Though, I want to add that GOOD players using double bass pedals can rock even me into the ground!
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Yeah BabyBob, +1.

Double pedals are... tools, like any piece of gear, or any technique.
More stuff in your tool box, more options. Decide what you (don't) want/need.
Wanna limit yourself? Go for less tools and you'll have less options... if this is what makes you happy.
BUT... if you're going for more tools/techniques... you have to invest time to learn how to handle them well. And I feel many are grumbling about stuff which they simply aren't ready to plunge into, investing the due amount of time learning how to handle it well. Don't grumble... go practice!
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Conclusion;

Double pedals are a great tool - IF you know how to use them correctly.

If you play double pedals because you cannot play with a single pedal, that's slightly less cool.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

I have a set of double Tama pedals that I like to use for exercise. I'm no spring chicken, so I try to do what I have to to keep all my limbs in as good of shape as I can. I bought mine over four years ago when I learned that I would be going to the hospital for surgery to my right foot. Having the double pedal gave me the opportunity to play the base drum until my right foot healed.

I have nothing against those who play the bass drum with both feet and do it well. What annoys me just a bit is when drummers solely concentrate on their double pedal technique without caring very much for what their hands are doing, it just sounds sloppy. I just ran into this situation a few weeks ago in the studio.

Dennis
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

I have a double pedal attached to my kit. And I actually dispise stereotypical double bass drummers. Bands like Mastadon, All The Remains, and all that sagging slopping bunch of testerone abuse. It's crap. ( Sorry for those who look it. It's just my opinion.)

The other night, our front man told me he didn't think he'd ever heard me play double bass during a show, or practice. This is because I use purely for fills and to take some of the work load away from my hands. My band plays Punk rock, so a lot of our tempos are pretty much lookin' at 200 bpms in the rear view mirror.

If I've been playing a really quick tune (See 'Bored and Extremely Dangerous by Bad Religion), I may do something like, hit a tom note, and then play a fast triple with the double pedal, and then move to the floor tom and do the same, creating the illusion of a roll, without my hands having to do a lot of work.

And of course in comes in handy if I want spice up a beat just a tad. All I have to do is wiggle my feet together.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Originally Posted by Swexx View Post
Conclusion;

Double pedals are a great tool - IF you know how to use them correctly.

If you play double pedals because you cannot play with a single pedal, that's slightly less cool.
Exactly what I was trying to say...though TS is abit rude IMO...suddenly open a thread to boycott double bass pedals...then suddenly calling someone an a hole

Lulz . No Offence .
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

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Exactly what I was trying to say...though TS is abit rude IMO...suddenly open a thread to boycott double bass pedals...then suddenly calling someone an a hole

Lulz . No Offence .
Well no because i was trying to open a discussion and straight away i was effectively told to shut up. i felt my reaction was just
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Look this is ridiculous, I am not grumbling and I am not attempting a boycott or to put anyone down. I am purely trying to get an opinion on a subject i do not know that much about, why are people so defensive? i'm not having a dig im trying to understand something i dont.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Any fault or lack of musicality lies with the player, not the pedal.....even if there are two of them.
In a perfect world this is true but not everyone is so single minded
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  #36  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
Look this is ridiculous, I am not grumbling and I am not attempting a boycott or to put anyone down. I am purely trying to get an opinion on a subject i do not know that much about, why are people so defensive? i'm not having a dig im trying to understand something i dont.
To "get an opinion"? Well you _have_ an opinion already - see your very first post. No wonder some people (me included) were defensive.

Next time try to be more diplomatic in your statements to avoid confusion.
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  #37  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Too many tatseful and musically appropriate examples of double pedal use for me to think otherwise.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
...I am not attempting a boycott or to put anyone down...
Your comments below suggest that the zillions of double bass or double pedals users are getting it totally wrong, and can be read as putting down drummers who use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
I think they are unnatural, destroy rhythm and on the whole are totally unnecessary...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
In a perfect world this is true but not everyone is so single minded
Says the pot to the kettle :)
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  #38  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
Look this is ridiculous,
Sure is. How did you think comments like "I think they are unnatural, destroy rhythm and on the whole are totally unnecessary" were gonna be recieved? Especially as you now claim it's a subject you don't know much about. Trying to learn with a closed mind from the outset is always gonna have its perils.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
I am purely trying to get an opinion on a subject i do not know that much about, why are people so defensive? i'm not having a dig im trying to understand something i dont.
And from what I'm reading you're being given some pretty good answers to your query. The fact that you're choosing to ignore or overlook them isn't the fault of those responding. Anything else that you feel is inflammatory is an obvious result of your equally inflammatory initial comments.

You'll find the dogmatic approach to personal taste used in your first post seldom cuts it. You see it one way, someone else sees it the other. Who's wrong or right? Especially in a discussion about taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-likes-drums View Post
In a perfect world this is true but not everyone is so single minded
Nothing's perfect mate.......except maybe Vinnie. But many things come close. Instead of shutting down and turning off, try and find some of the many examples where double pedals are used tastefully. It's evident by your first post that you haven't yet tried.

As for the guys who overuse them.....turn it off, don't buy the CD or walk out of the venue. No-one's forcing you to listen.

In the real world there is stuff to piss us off all the time. As annoying as much of it is, that's life my friend.....no-one said it would be easy. But it's not worth slighting everything because one or two annoy you.
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  #39  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Well there is no "best" in music.

To me sometime's driving and listening to "Hello Nasty" by the Beastie boys is what I need. Other times listening to Emperor, morphine or something else works.

Everyone has music and equipment for different reasons.

I have a double pedal. I can play constant notes with my feet, or use it in fills or to chop up the beat.

I personally can't say that NOT using a double pedal is idiotic. That wouldn't be fair to other drummers, it says their choice of musical weapon is not the best kind to bring to a fight, so to speak.

I love Ringo, Stevie Rays drummer, Mitch Mitchell and all kinds of drummers who DON'T use double bass drums in their setup.

Do some research with an open mind. Some people use triggers, some don't. At the end of the day it's not the equipment but your heart and musical grace that makes other drummers salivate and wish they made that part.

Look at just about anything Gadd does, Rich, Tony Williams.

No offense, but trying to delegate stuff into these types of polar extremes is ridiculous. Don't call me an a**hole either.

Maybe if you asked a question about others OPINIONS on the validity of the double bass drumming, and what their choice for incorporating it was, you'd get a better response.
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Double Bass Pedals are the Devils Work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SticksEasy View Post

If I've been playing a really quick tune (See 'Bored and Extremely Dangerous by Bad Religion), I may do something like, hit a tom note, and then play a fast triple with the double pedal, and then move to the floor tom and do the same, creating the illusion of a roll, without my hands having to do a lot of work.

And of course in comes in handy if I want spice up a beat just a tad. All I have to do is wiggle my feet together.

Your completely doing something that can help with double pedal.

I was in a dbeat/hardcore band...We played like doom, spazz, crusty punk stuff. I did this exact thing.

Double pedal isn't all about punk/metal, look at Bellson, Billy Cobham...etc..
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