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  #1  
Old 03-21-2015, 11:17 AM
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Default A Live Music Venue who do it right....

There's been many posts on here about crap-head music venues and promotors. And I've noticed this seems to be a common theme of most drum and general music messageboards...

I want to give a big shout out for The Railway in Whaley Bridge. A pub/live music venue who does everything right from promotion...to pay. Great venue.

Sometimes it's just the simple things that make a venue great.
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

True, not all venues are needlessly harsh to the talent. Sometimes a successful musician will open their own club or restaurant, hire good bands, and pay them decently for their work. They understand what it's like to scrounge, and so they're more equitable when it comes to the talent.

There are 2 such places that I've experienced in the L.A. area, one in Long Beach run by Social Distortion's (ex?) drummer (I guess the one made the money!) and another by Neil Morrow, a bandleader that works a lot and has a cool little restaurant/bar out in Corona a bit east of L.A. I'm sure there are others.

But while some places do exploit bands, most can genuinely not afford to pay a band $3-400. There are a LOT of fixed and non-negotiable expenses that go into running an establishment, and people in bands don't take that into account when they cry "foul" about the pay. The truth is, some of these places should not have bands at all, it's not likely their revenues would really change, and the idea of bringing live entertainment is to boost the income... not just to pay the band that extra money. Businesses aren't in business to break-even.

Anyway, this is an oft-discussed issue, I like that you've praised a place rather than slam it, there's enough of that to go around!

Bermuda
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Old 03-21-2015, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

I very rarely come across a venue where I am treated poorly .... extremely rare actually

I can't remember the last time I was not fed, paid, and treated with nothing but respect and helpful assistance

maybe back in the day on DIY tours playing dives that didn't even have a sound man ?

... even then I didn't care because it was so much fun
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I very rarely come across a venue where I am treated poorly .... extremely rare actually

I can't remember the last time I was not fed, paid, and treated with nothing but respect and helpful assistance
The concepts of treatment and fair pay are subjective. Too many musicians feel an entitlement that somebody owes them a certain payment and respect, simply because the musician took time to learn his instrument, and because he has the passion. Sorry, but in any line of work, you are paid based on the value you bring to the person/entity paying. It's not a reward for one's effort, or desire, or personal needs... it's compensation for the value they bring. The higher the value, the more the person (or band) can expect to be paid.

Does anyone question why some actors command extraordinary salaries for a movie or TV episode? It's because their value in that vehicle draws several times the box office or ad-dollar revenue than their salary. It's money that wouldn't be there without their presence.

Same for a band. If a club hires a band that makes people dance, get thirsty, and buy more drinks, and the band's presence brings in an extra $1000 that wasn't there without them, then give 1/3 of that to the band. Maybe throw in a $100 bar and food tab to sweeten the deal.

But is the band entitled to know what the club's additional profit for the night is, so they can demand a dollar figure? No, there has to be a certain amount of trust that the owner will measure the results accurately, and pay fairly. If they don't act accordingly, then bands need to stop trying to get gigs in those venues.

Bermuda
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The concepts of treatment and fair pay are subjective.

Bermuda
Ideally fair pay to me covers my cost of travel , and time with some left over for my pocket.... at least enough to pay a bill
of course the expectations of this change based on whoever I am supporting.
If they draw I expect more than if I am a sideman for someone who brings 20 people..... which I don't mind either because I love to play.

and fair treatment is a light meal & drinks on the house ( even though I'll probably have one) , comfortable stage , a competent sound man, and some kindness from the staff which I always offer in return
.... I don't need much in this department
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:15 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

Though it changed ownership a while back:

The Skylark in Seattle. No cover. Band gets a fixed % of the bar and wooden nickels (Playing cards). Board is a PreSonus so you can get your tracks at the end of the night.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The concepts of treatment and fair pay are subjective. Too many musicians feel an entitlement that somebody owes them a certain payment and respect, simply because the musician took time to learn his instrument, and because he has the passion. Sorry, but in any line of work, you are paid based on the value you bring to the person/entity paying. It's not a reward for one's effort, or desire, or personal needs... it's compensation for the value they bring. The higher the value, the more the person (or band) can expect to be paid.

Does anyone question why some actors command extraordinary salaries for a movie or TV episode? It's because their value in that vehicle draws several times the box office or ad-dollar revenue than their salary. It's money that wouldn't be there without their presence.

Same for a band. If a club hires a band that makes people dance, get thirsty, and buy more drinks, and the band's presence brings in an extra $1000 that wasn't there without them, then give 1/3 of that to the band. Maybe throw in a $100 bar and food tab to sweeten the deal.

But is the band entitled to know what the club's additional profit for the night is, so they can demand a dollar figure? No, there has to be a certain amount of trust that the owner will measure the results accurately, and pay fairly. If they don't act accordingly, then bands need to stop trying to get gigs in those venues.

Bermuda
Speaking for ourselves the band I'm in expect nothing other than a fair hand to be dealt with us.

There are two types of venue in England. Unfortunately venue a) represents quite possibly around 90% of the music scene (for unsigned artists) here....

Venue a) don't pay the bands. Don't treat the bands with much respect. Rarely actually give the bands even a free drink for their hard work. They don't promote the bands who are 'on'. They don't actually do much. Just rely on bands to "bring a following".

Sometimes they will say "bring a following this time and we'll let you play for a percentage of the bar take next time...." WHOOPEE FKING DO. But it never happens.

They're basically lazy bastards playing at being live music venue owners.

Then there's venue b) of which this Railway is a good example. We were scheduled to play here in May. The owner likes us. He's seen our videos on Youtube and watched us live. He then booked us to play.

"What's your fee" he asked. So we responded with "this is our first gig at your venue. We play assuming no pay. IF we perform well. You are happy with the product. Pay us a modest fee, but most importantly re-book us for a regular paid slot."

"Jeez, that's really fair..."

We've noticed that the guys modus operandi is to run a disco after live bands have played. But unlike most live venue owners he doesn't play The smiths, Radiohead, U2, and the Sex Pistols. He plays songs from bands who are playing in the next few weeks. "This is MLC. They're really good. Alternative punk. Slightly humerous. Really enjoy the stage. Great entertainment. Come see them in May" etc. etc.

So he contacted me yesterday and this is where he showed his real class. "I've had a band drop out on 4th April...you lads couldn't slot in by any chance". I checked, we could. "I insist on paying...you're doing me a favour". So I ask how much he was paying the previous band. "xxx amount" says he. "How about we take that (it's a really good sum for us !) and we'll bring along a young solo guitarist singer...and pay him from our wage"

"Wow...says he...that's fantastic. I'll throw food and drink on for you as well..."

Unexpected...which makes it all the nicer...as you can probably tell.
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Old 03-21-2015, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: A Live Music Venue who do it right....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
Ideally fair pay to me covers my cost of travel , and time with some left over for my pocket.... at least enough to pay a bill
of course the expectations of this change based on whoever I am supporting.
If they draw I expect more than if I am a sideman for someone who brings 20 people..... which I don't mind either because I love to play.

and fair treatment is a light meal & drinks on the house ( even though I'll probably have one) , comfortable stage , a competent sound man, and some kindness from the staff which I always offer in return
.... I don't need much in this department
I think most bands are in your camp. Problem is, again in the UK for sure, greedy live music venues take advantage of that. It was multitudinously worse when I was playing in live bands in my teens though. Sneeky fkers then would tell us that our pay was with the doormen...the doormen would make our life very hard.

Band I was in when I was 16 once had to basically rob the doorman on his way home of OUR pay for a gig. Literally, "this is a stick up...pay us what you owe or you get the baseball bat treatment". He was a very big guy. And quite possibly gang connected (this was when Manchester had earned the UK name of 'Gunchester').

Madchester....1980s !! Not all Stone Roses, flowerpower, and happy Indi go lucky nonsense"
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