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  #41  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

It does strike me odd that something could yellow from the inside out. That doesn't seem logical to me as the inside isn't exposed like the outer layer is. But I have no real firsthand knowledge so I will defer to the warnings.

.
I think that given we don't know what the composition of the early wraps were, it is possible that there is some internal chemical reaction going on. It might not be exposure to air, but interaction of chemicals within the wrap itself, which has only become obvious many years after manufacture and therefore was not expected to be an issue, if indeed the manufacturers were aware of it as an issue at all.
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  #42  
Old 05-22-2012, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

A guy from Vintage Drum Forums said he`ll try this method.
I`ll keep you posted.
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  #43  
Old 05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Thanks Razvan. Hopefully he will take some before pics. Also I do understand now how things can yellow from the inside, UV light penetrates. I think my WMP wrap...in the inner layers, below the surface that is not exposed to the air...if you look real close...there is some clouding going on that is not there under the lugs. You have to look very close with the lugs off but it does look ever so slightly clouded below the surface compared to under the lugs. Not yellowed, clouded. If you look at the the bass drum pic, you can notice it. Compare under the lug at the bottom hole, and look to the left of the bottom hole. Slightly different color, greenish, cloudier. I think that as time passes the UV light clouds under the surface, just slightly, and yellows the surface. The peroxide removed all the surface yellowing but really can't penetrate below the surface. At first glance, the drums look white, no doubt. That's why I'm so happy.

Now TBH if when the wrap was brand new it was 100%, then after 36 years of discoloration and now peroxide treatment I would call it 95% as good as the original. The clouding...is really not noticeable unless you are comparing it to under the lugs, because it's so uniform. So it's not absolutely perfect like I said earlier, sorry. I've had a chance to really scrutinize it under different lighting conditions, sunlight, incandescent light, fluorescent light...it looks different under each light. (Fluorescent makes it look the worst, slightly greenish) But I will say this, there's SO much of an improvement that the clouding is the next thing to a non issue. I am still ecstatic when I look at the results. Even my wife commented on how great the results were. I still highly recommend this treatment, because it whitened my yellowed drums. I would think WMP would be the acid test of this treatment, because there's different shades of white swirly colors going on, with varying in degrees of opaque-ness in there. White shows clouding and yellow better than most wraps IMO. On a wrap like champagne sparkle, it's a very uniform color, and it doesn't seem to cloud like the WMP. (I have some 66 Luds in champagne sparkle wrap too) In other words if it brought my WMP to 95% of what it was originally, I would think that solid colors would be restored even closer to 100%.

Last edited by larryace; 05-23-2012 at 04:26 AM.
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  #44  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:41 PM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Giving the retrobright treatment a go on my 1966 Slingerland WMP snare as we speak

Will report back :)
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2012, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

If you don't take before and afters, people will be skeptical. However, the method WORKS. You have my word on it.

I thought this would be great news for the vintage world, but I don't see a whole lot of interest in the matter, which kind of surprises me. I thought this would catch fire so to speak.

Please report your experiences. I don't think many people believed me because I only had after shots. Which were pretty convincing I thought. How many WMP drums from the 70's look the same under the lug as not under the lug?

Mine do now!

I'm waiting to free up some cash to re cut the edges before I re-assemble them. They still sit in my studio, stripped down.
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  #46  
Old 07-31-2012, 08:53 AM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Technical note:

DO NOT put your retrobright gel mixture in a Home Depot empty paint can and then hammer the lid down after adding the oxy (like I did)

It WILL explode and shoot gel all over the room and ceiling

Just sayin'.....

BTW....13 hours in under UV light and things are looking very promising

Will hopefully have good news in the morning :)
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  #47  
Old 07-31-2012, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by papaherb View Post
Technical note:

DO NOT put your retrobright gel mixture in a Home Depot empty paint can and then hammer the lid down after adding the oxy (like I did)

It WILL explode and shoot gel all over the room and ceiling

Just sayin'.....

BTW....13 hours in under UV light and things are looking very promising

Will hopefully have good news in the morning :)
Lololololol I know EXACTLY what you are referring to. The stuff definitely expands. I never mentioned that fact. I used it straight out of the blender thing so I had no explosions lol. It did expand and overflow though. I'm picturing you scrubbing gel of off everywhere, leaving little bright spots wherever it landed. Now you have to gel your whole room lol. Am anxious to hear about your results.
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  #48  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:35 AM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Here is my MUCH WHITER 1966 Slingerland WMP snare, before and after my first "retrobright" experiment:

Moving on tomorrow for a second run at the snare, and the rest of the kit

Very exciting stuff!!!



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  #49  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Another technical note:

In the "retrobright" instructions, it says to not put the drums out in the sun on a hot day

I live in South Florida...it is almost August...it is HOT

I saw absolutely no negative effects....I was careful to every few hours reapply the goo to prevent drying

Sooooo....take that to the bank
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  #50  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If anyone has a vintage WMP that has yellowed, and like me, doesn't care for that look..
There's a way to safely restore your wrap to new condition. I just did this on my 1976 Luds that I got over the holidays. I couldn't be more pleased. Wow. Items cost me like $30.00 USD.
Here's a link to the formula I used. I used Merlin's original recipe.

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Retr0Bright+Gel

The stuff works. I couldn't be happier. I should have taken before and afters. This original formula is intended for ABS plastic. Drum wrap is PVC AFAIK, so I didn't know if it would work. Yea, it worked.

If you have plastic yellowed headlight lenses on your car, this should do the trick too. It should also work on yellowed piano keys.

If anyone tells you to use bleach, don't listen. Bleach creates tiny pits in the wrap.

If you do want to make this stuff, here's a link on how to use it.

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Using+Retr0Bright
Thanks for sharing, Larry! I'm stunned!

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  #51  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by papaherb View Post
Here is my MUCH WHITER 1966 Slingerland WMP snare, before and after my first "retrobright" experiment:

Moving on tomorrow for a second run at the snare, and the rest of the kit

Very exciting stuff!!!



Wow, your drum was 5x more yellowed than mine. There's your proof everybody.
Simply amazing stuff that retrobright gel. I'm glad someone else verified this, nice work.
Oh it just occurred to me that this drum is 1966, the magic cut off year for wraps made with Pyralin.
I wonder if your drum is Pyralin or PVC. Steve will know. He knows everything.

You can see that there is still some cloudiness, there is on my wrap too. I think it is too deep for a surface treatment to do anything. I don't know that will ever come out. You gotta agree that the difference is plain night and day. It's also a huge improvement in the look of that drum, stunning results.
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  #52  
Old 08-02-2012, 06:33 AM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Finished my '66 Slingerland WMP Snare....beautiful results from "retrobright" gel treatment

Two full days of South Florida sun

The rest of the kit should be beautiful by this time tomorrow....will follow up with photos

I believe this puts to rest the question of whether the "retrobright" process works on Vintage wraps....and quite frankly, I am so glad it does :-)

Here it is...before and after:

Before:



After:

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  #53  
Old 08-02-2012, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Serious improvement there. Your wrap was in bad shape. Stunning results. This is a good thing.
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by papaherb View Post
Another technical note:

In the "retrobright" instructions, it says to not put the drums out in the sun on a hot day

I live in South Florida...it is almost August...it is HOT

I saw absolutely no negative effects....I was careful to every few hours reapply the goo to prevent drying

Sooooo....take that to the bank
Beautiful results. I'd bet the warning is so that on a hot day, you don't cause the wrap to start ungluing/bubbling/peeling, or a shell to warp.
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  #55  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Papaherb, after whitening, but before you re-assemble your drums, I suggest polishing the wrap with a paste type silver polish before the Armor-All treatment. Why you ask? Do you see the reflection in the after pic? See how it is hazy around the edges? Silver polish will make it so the reflection is more like a mirror, with sharp reflections. It's the finishing touch that will make your wrap sparkle. It undulls it. If you do that, your wrap will reflect light sharply, not hazily. It will be more like a mirror image. It's worth the time, since you have them all apart.
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  #56  
Old 08-05-2012, 04:23 PM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Tried the silver polish....not such a fan

I use Meguiars Ultimate Compund and their Fine Cut Cleaner

Best results for me

Should finish up with reassembly today...will post pics :)
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  #57  
Old 08-05-2012, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Ah OK, other products will do the job. That's what I had lying about, silver polish, I tried it and it worked. So did auto compound. The wrap does benefit from a polish though, whatever product you use. Really looking forward to seeing pics of the whole set. Any before pics of the whole set?
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  #58  
Old 08-08-2012, 05:47 AM
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Default Post-Restoration '66 Slingerland WMP's :)







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  #59  
Old 08-08-2012, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

They look fantastic. Nice work!
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  #60  
Old 08-10-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

BTW....This kit is for sale.... :-)



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  #61  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Were the other drums just as yellow as the snare?
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  #62  
Old 08-10-2012, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

The floor tom was in the best condition color-wise, the bass drum was almost as yellow in certain areas, but patchy all over, the aerial tom was patchy but not as severe

Snare was definitely the most severe
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  #63  
Old 08-10-2012, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Were you planning on selling the kit before unyellowing it? Why are you selling it again?
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  #64  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:04 PM
papaherb papaherb is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Yes...the plan was always to restore and sell the kit...it's something I do ;-)

I find vintage kits in disrepair, restore them to beautiful condition, then sell them :)
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  #65  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

So the retro bright treatment will be something you will get a lot of future use from it seems. It makes me happy that this process is getting the attention it deserves.
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  #66  
Old 07-16-2013, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Just wanted to bump this thread to remind everyone about this. About a dozen posts down there are great before and after pics that papaherb did. I just recently acquired a 13 x 9 tom to complete my set. The wrap was in perfect shape, no yellow. It matched up perfectly with the drums I unyellowed 14 months ago. BTW no ill effect from the unyellowing process. In fact everything is friggin beautiful.
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  #67  
Old 07-16-2013, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Okay, but how do I "yellow" a new blond maple finish to make it look a bit more vintage? ;-)

Cool work Larry. Something to put in the notebook for various plastic things that we want to restore.
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  #68  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Take it to the beach! Thanks man. I thought this thread should get bumped as we have a lot of new members who might have missed it. It really is all that plus the coffee.

I tried this method on a lacquer drum set where the lacquer had actually yellowed very noticeably. This peroxide treatment did nothing Watsoever on lacquer finishes. But ABS and PVC it works perfectly.
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  #69  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I read this thread a few months ago Larry and I have been considering cleaning my vintage WMP Luddies. Thanks for sharing the info by the way :)
Part of me wants to see my babies looking like new again and part of me likes the creamy look of a well aged kit.
I don't know what to do so I don't do anything.
I suppose if my drums were really yellow like some kits that I have seen I would be more into whitening them.
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  #70  
Old 08-14-2014, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I know this is an old thread, but I'm going to try this so I have a quick question. Will the process work ok if the retrobrite dries on the drum or do I need to keep the retrobrite wet at all times?
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  #71  
Old 08-14-2014, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

No it's OK if it dries. Just the same, I would re-wet it with a spray bottle with water with a little Oxy-clean dissolved in it. Just paint the retrobrite on with a soft paintbrush, no need for any scrubbing. (I scrubbed with a stiff bristled hand scrubber and it sort of dulled the surface a bit. Unnecessary and a little detrimental) Then set it outside in the sun, turning it every few hours to get the shaded side some direct sunlight. Try keeping it wet but it's OK if it dries. Works perfectly as long as you don't scour the surface with stiff brushes. Protect the badges too with something. I didn't and it took some paint off of the badges, but I was also scrubbing it. Try and keep the moisture out of the inside of the shell, you don't want to compromise any glue joints. I had to re-glue the seam of my wrap a bit because it lifted slightly. That was a cinch though.

2 years later and my WMP looks as good as the day I unyellowed it. Highly recommend this if you don't like the yellowing.
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  #72  
Old 08-14-2014, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

What exactly will happen if 50's Leedy/Ludwig's or a '65 Ludwig tom are treated with this? I may try it just for fun, since the drums are worth nearly nothing.
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  #73  
Old 08-14-2014, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

What will happen? You mean other than you jumping for joy? I did a 76 Ludwig tom and the results were astonishing. There were some concerns raised by others about wraps from pre 65 I think. I don't think it would hurt anything, peroxide is just water with an extra oxygen ion or atom I forget which it is. I did it on yellowed lacquer...yea it didn't unyellow the lacquer but it didn't hurt the finish Watso-ever. I just washed it all off with a sponge. I would think that any wrap is way tougher than lacquer. I'd go for it, not many people do this AFAIK. Plus you stated that your drums are worth nearly nothing. I would have zero hesitation if I wanted to do this again. You saw the before and afters of papaherb's kit right? Huge improvement, epic.
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
What will happen? You mean other than you jumping for joy? I did a 76 Ludwig tom and the results were astonishing. There were some concerns raised by others about wraps from pre 65 I think. I don't think it would hurt anything, peroxide is just water with an extra oxygen ion or atom I forget which it is. I did it on yellowed lacquer...yea it didn't unyellow the lacquer but it didn't hurt the finish Watso-ever. I just washed it all off with a sponge. I would think that any wrap is way tougher than lacquer. I'd go for it, not many people do this AFAIK. Plus you stated that your drums are worth nearly nothing. I would have zero hesitation if I wanted to do this again. You saw the before and afters of papaherb's kit right? Huge improvement, epic.
No I only saw your pictures, but the drums look good if not great. I'm definitely interested, will bump this thread in the near future most likely. ;) I have a mid 50's 13" tom that is missing a couple pieces, collecting dust and it's actually very yellowed..perfect test rat!
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  #75  
Old 08-14-2014, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Scroll down, the papaherb pics I am referring to are in this thread. I didn't take any before pics, at the time I was rushed, and I didn't even know if it would work. Papaherb's before pics are horrendous.
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  #76  
Old 08-14-2014, 09:42 PM
Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Scroll down, the papaherb pics I am referring to are in this thread. I didn't take any before pics, at the time I was rushed, and I didn't even know if it would work. Papaherb's before pics are horrendous.
Oh right, I kept seeing the pics of the final product but missed the snare. That's amazing!
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  #77  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:00 PM
80zfreak 80zfreak is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I tried Retrobrite on my Ludwig Maple Classics and it didn't work. I tried several different recipes and no luck. Then I got to thinking, before I tried the Retrobrite I polished the shell with a Meguiar's product called PlastX. I just looked at the bottle and it say's that it has waterproof protectants in it. I would guess it has UV blockers in it too. Do you think this would be why the Retrobrite didn't work? If so how do I get the protectants off?
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  #78  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

That's strange. I have no good explanation other than yours.
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  #79  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:08 PM
80zfreak 80zfreak is offline
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Yes they are wrapped in red, silver, and blue sparkle. The blue sparkle has yellowed making it a aqua color. That's what I was putting the Retrobrite on to try to restore the original blue color.
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  #80  
Old 08-17-2014, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Maybe some type of solvent would remove any lingering Meguiar residue. Try that and try it again is the only thing you can do. The retrobrite really should work fine. Also I would think that if the blue part is UV damaged, the surrounding parts would be as well. You did put it in direct sunlight after you applied the gel yes? And you started with 30-35% hydrogen peroxide as the active ingredient right?
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