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  #1  
Old 05-17-2012, 05:44 PM
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Default Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

If anyone has a vintage WMP that has yellowed, and like me, doesn't care for that look..
There's a way to safely restore your wrap to new condition. I just did this on my 1976 Luds that I got over the holidays. I couldn't be more pleased. Wow. Items cost me like $30.00 USD.
Here's a link to the formula I used. I used Merlin's original recipe.

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Retr0Bright+Gel

The stuff works. I couldn't be happier. I should have taken before and afters. This original formula is intended for ABS plastic. Drum wrap is PVC AFAIK, so I didn't know if it would work. Yea, it worked.

If you have plastic yellowed headlight lenses on your car, this should do the trick too. It should also work on yellowed piano keys.

If anyone tells you to use bleach, don't listen. Bleach creates tiny pits in the wrap.

If you do want to make this stuff, here's a link on how to use it.

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Using+Retr0Bright
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

PICS!!!!
:)






00000
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

That's encouraging to hear. A photo would be great too. I have a early 60s wmp snare with yellowing. Though I wonder if de-yellowing would devalue the drum. You know those crazy vintage collectors out there. Kind of like the Beatles famous Butcher Cover album cover (relevant to the U.S. only). The album in it's "first state" (unpeeled cover) is worth more now than the "peeled" cover (which reveals the butcher photo.

Anyway, good news!
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I don't know about the devalue factor. I never consider that anyway, because I hold on to all my stuff. It makes me happy to see vintage WMP in pristine shape. Yellowed stuff looks bad to me. I just didn't want to restore this set until I could do something about the yellowing, as I really don't like that look. Besides, if you went to sell, the wrap would look perfect, fetching a higher price I would imagine. How would they know you unyellowed it? In their eyes, they stumbled upon the best kept WMP drum ever. How could you lose? You can always re-yellow it.
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

yes, pictures.

Geez, Larry, you can't tease us like this!

~Ian
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I am so not a picture taker. I am more of a sound recording guy. I don't have any before pics at all. I'll try to post some after pics tomorrow, I am doing a 2nd treatment because I ran out of sunlight yesterday. It take like 24 hours in the sun to finish.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2012, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I don't know about the devalue factor.
I'm only guessing, but I just can't see how it would. The better the condition of the original wrap, the more the drums seem to fetch. If you've got a beautiful "white" original WMP wrap, that's all a buyer is gonna see.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:45 AM
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2012, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Zactly Jules.

Today was gorgeous with full sunshine all day and not too hot, perfect conditions. They are still sitting outside now with the gel dried on it. Tomorrow I will moisten them back up and scrub the gel off and take some pics, then decide if it needs any more treatment. It really shouldn't, I am so pleased with what I am seeing. I might have to glue some seams down though, the peroxide lifted it in places slightly, no big deal though.

When I took the lugs off, you could clearly see the original pearly white condition of the wrap under the lugs, right next to the 5 or so shades of yellow it had become. Hopefully the pics will come out good enough to show that there is no color difference anymore.

I have a 24 x 14, 12 x 8, and a 16 x 16. Now all I have to do is find a Ludwig 10" WMP rack tom. I don't think they made them from that era. I'd use whatever Ludwig WMP 10" tom I can find. Anyone who has one LMK, K?
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I have a 24 x 14, 12 x 8, and a 16 x 16. Now all I have to do is find a Ludwig 10" WMP rack tom.
10" rack???? Pah......weak!!

A 24" kick demands the respect of a 13x9 (or even 10) rack and an 18x16 to sit next to the 16 floor, for good measure. Anything less is just child's play old mate.
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2012, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Sorry Jules, my set, my rules. I don't like a 12 and 13, too close together in size. Never understood that interval choice. I'm crazy about the 10" tom tone. And an 18" floor tom is just too much for me and too far a stretch. But I could be happy like they are, 1 up and 1 down. I prefer 3 toms. Max.

Thinking about sending the shells to Precision to get the bearing edges redone. I've always hated old Ludwig bearing edges, not nearly precise enough.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP, w/ pics

OK I took some after pics. You'll just have to take my word for it that it was probably 5 shades of yellow before I started. I may give them another treatment, the hidden side could use some more sun. That's the thing, you have to keep turning them so the shaded parts get the sunlight. The UV light from the sun is necessary for the chemical reaction, So naturally I have the exposed part of the drum in the sun most of the time. But I am thrilled. THRILLED I TELL YA!
A couple issues, the paint on the badges started to flake off, and the seams started to lift, very minor but still needs to be glued back down. The flaking paint on the badges I didn't expect, anyone doing this should protect the badges somehow.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?!!!!
NO MORE YELLOWED PLASTIC! THIS IS HUGE!
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

This would work on "ginger aled" champagne sparkle wraps too. In fact any wrap that is UV damaged would benefit from this, not matter what color.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Wow Larry you're right, that really did work. Did yellow residue and junk appearon rags or cloths you might have used? Anyway I might try this on my sky blue pearl 60s set though I admit I'm afraid. Maybe harry or others could chime in on this as well. Nice work.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2012, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

The yellowing is reversed in a chemical process. You can't see the yellow come off, it goes into the air as a result of the yellowing molecule, bromine, getting "unbonded" from the PVC and replaced with an oxygen or hydrogen atom I forget. The gel is cloudy when you put it on and perhaps the slightest bit yellowish coming off becasue as it drys I guess it gets trapped in the gel. The results are just spectacular. I am in the process of doing the treatment a 3rd time, to get the parts that were shaded, but the wrap looks factory new, no exaggeration. There's going to be no yellowing left whatsoever when I am done. Then I am supposed to protect it with Armor-All, as it blocks UV light. Pretty smart chemical engineering going on and they gave the recipe away free.

Larry, AFAIK, no one here has attempted this before, so I doubt you will get other's experiences here. Only I am crazy enough to believe that you can reverse yellowing without damage. God bless the internet and all the great info. Just another miracle thing that peroxide can do.

Last edited by larryace; 05-18-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Thats great info Larry...gotta get this in the Gear Section so I can find it 10 years from now when I need it...lol


nahh...I'll remember...


Notice any significant drying of the shell from fumes?

Last edited by Otto; 05-19-2012 at 02:26 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

That looks great. Little elbow grease goes well
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post

Notice any significant drying of the shell from fumes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
That looks great. Little elbow grease goes well
No fumes, no elbow grease, no drying shell. Lifted the seams slightly and flaked some paint off the badge, but I was using a scrubber to get the gel off. Maybe a little elbow grease cleaning off the dried gel, but none to unyellow it, I just painted it on w/ a big paintbrush. The stuff is just a regular miracle, totally safe. Peroxide is just water with an extra atom of oxygen. It's that extra unstable atom of oxygen that's the miracle oxidizer.

Last edited by larryace; 05-19-2012 at 05:29 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

oops..should have read the ingredients...

Nice tip!!
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Nice work man! That's came out real good. Bet you were nervous as hell when you first started?
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Not nervous at all. Peroxide is awesome stuff, totally safe. I've been gargling with 3.5% since the late 80's. I would have done this sooner, found out about the method a few months ago, but I just got around to doing it. I love little discoveries like this. Friggin wrap looks perfect. It's basically 15% peroxide supercharged by just the tiniest bit of oxy-clean, with ingredients to make it into a gel so it sticks.

I would have been nervous bleaching it. That stuff isn't safe.
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

So, it literally takes just a second for the chemical reaction to make the work? I've seen a Round Badge in Champagne Sparkle in awesome condition at $2000 for sale here in Sweden. This could maybe make it look brand new?
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

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Originally Posted by Cameo View Post
So, it literally takes just a second for the chemical reaction to make the work? I've seen a Round Badge in Champagne Sparkle in awesome condition at $2000 for sale here in Sweden. This could maybe make it look brand new?
No, it needs UV light to work. UV light activates the oxidation process. I won't get into the quantum physics of it all but essentially UV light provides the energy for the electrons to jump atomic shell.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

In my case it took probably a good 18 hours of sunlight/UV light to restore the wrap back to original. So it takes a little bit of time. The chemists were able to use the very thing that caused the yellowing, UV light, to reverse the process. Friggin results are a miracle. I WISH I had taken before pics, but I was in such a hurry at the time. I am trying to see if I can find the original Ebay ad for some before pics.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Super killer find/score. This fix could take the "vintage" drum world by storm.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I know Harry, it's pretty big, as far a the restoration guys are concerned. I think that given the choice, the majority would opt for non yellowed drums, JMO.

There are so many uses, I could start a business unyellowing stuff.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Yeah, a buddy of mine just scored a Rogers Script Logo kit, black, that's faded to a dull flat black. 20, 12, 13, 16. $300, he paid. This might be the fix he needs. I e-mailed him this link.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Awesome Harry. I do want to spread the word far and wide. The stuff works like magic. The pics speak for themselves.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Awesome! They look great, nice write-up!
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

I'm very happy. Faded, dulled or yellowed wraps can now be a thing of the past. Gotta love the internet and all the good people willing to share awesome knowledge without regard to profit.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
No, it needs UV light to work. UV light activates the oxidation process. I won't get into the quantum physics of it all but essentially UV light provides the energy for the electrons to jump atomic shell.
This is what I'm talking about.. There is no need for this. The guy posted pictures.. it worked! I guess your chemistry degree doesn't apply here. The guy was nice enough to share something that worked and let people know what he did. He doesn't need nonsense replies like this.

Last edited by Kg_lee; 05-21-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

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This is what I'm talking about.. There is no need for this. The guy posted pictures.. it worked! I guess your chemistry major doesn't apply here. The guy was nice enough to share something that worked and let people know what he did. He doesn't need nonsense replies like this.
I don't have a chemistry major. I have a degree. We don't have 'majors' in my country.

Kg_lee, please don't hijack other threads just to attack me. Start a new thread if you want to try and call me out.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Thanks Larry for sharing a most impressive product! I'm sure some of us on here greatly appreciate your post.
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  #33  
Old 05-21-2012, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Larry I'm glad that you included the part about treating them afterwords with Armor-All. I used to work as a auto detailor, there are many products that are simular to Armor-All and actualy do a much better job of protecting from UV rays. Just look around. The last step is very important and really needs to be done because I'm sure that there is a very good possibility that the treatment could dry out the wrap material. Good luck, and thanks for posting this helpful tip. John
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Beautiful. You'll have to keep us appraised of the long-term result, Larry.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Just an important notice from the fella`s at Vintage Drum Forum:

Quote:
The method discussed here will NOT work on Pyralin/cellulose based wraps/WMP.. because .. the yellowing that takes place on those particular wraps happen from the INSIDE out... not on top. As to how well the stuff mentioned here works on PVC, well... perhaps someone is willing to take up the gauntlet of challenge and check it out. I will say again however... NOT RECOMMENDED on the "older" Pyralin/cellulose film, which in reality, is NOT plastic.
the whole topic is here -> http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=29921
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Thanks Razvan for the link.

I don't know what to say. I am a little confused. Did the one guy basically say it WON'T work on WMP? I think he did. If he did....my results prove otherwise. Boy do they prove otherwise. Honestly, every time I look at those 76 Luds, I am floored as to how perfect the wrap looks. Just floored. I am kicking myself for not taking before pics, I was in such a rush. I think this is where any disbelief comes from, no before pics. I wasn't sure if it would work on PVC. Also, after treatment, I ran my fingertips all along the wrap...just to check for any compromising of the surface. I found absolutely no roughness, no damage, no pitting, no stryations, no anything....smooth as it ever was, in showroom condition. Like I said, I was totally floored.


For any of the guys/gals from the vintage drum forum reading this...I feel a need to qualify myself to you....You guys probably don't know me, but I am an entrenched member here, and if I do say so myself, I am as credible as they come. Anybody who knows me here knows that if anything, I am honest. I would never never mislead anyone, it's just not in my nature. All I want is to elevate everything drumming. I am making zero money from this, I don't own shares in peroxide lol, I just want to spread some fantastic news that I myself proved to work.

I'm saying flat out right here, right now, that in complete honesty, as one drummer to all the rest....I safely unyellowed my 1976 Ludwig WMP wrap using 15% peroxide and a tiny bit of oxyclean, made into gel form and placed in sunlight for about 18 hours. With stunningly perfect results. No matter what it's made from, and I don't actually know, I thought it was PVC, the 15% peroxide completely unyellowed it. Bam!

My wrap has zero damage as a result of this, and I'm pretty sure that it's gonna stay that way.

When something comes along that is a game changer, you will get opposition.

I read a great line recently....Truth: First it's ridiculed, then it's attacked, then eventually it's accepted as self evident.

People, this is great news. Be happy and take full advantage of it. No need to complicate things.

Last edited by larryace; 05-21-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I don't know what to say. I am a little confused. Did the one guy basically say it WON'T work on WMP? I think he did. If he did....my results prove otherwise. Boy do they prove otherwise. Honestly, every time I look at those 76 Luds
He said it won't work on pyralin, but does work on PVC, with speculation that the pyralin was used until at least 1966, so if all your shells are mid-70s vintage, that might explain the difference. Maybe.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Larry,

The way i see it, the dude said it works on "modern" PVC wraps/WMP`s (just like yours) but that it is dangerous to use on Pyralin (whatever that is) , wich has been used for wraps " up until at least 1966 ", as the guy mentioned.
I can see you have wonderful results but when trying new methods , people seem to be a bit scared of them, especially when they have to be applied on rare/ vintage drums. I don`t think he`s trying to turn you off, he`s just raising a warning. Anyway, some other guy on VDF said he`ll try it and i`m really eager to see his results.
Actually, i tought about trying it myself, but not on a drum wrap. I`ll se if i`ll get some 15% peroxide and take some before/after pics.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Sorry Jules, my set, my rules. I don't like a 12 and 13, too close together in size. Never understood that interval choice. I'm crazy about the 10" tom tone. And an 18" floor tom is just too much for me and too far a stretch. But I could be happy like they are, 1 up and 1 down. I prefer 3 toms. Max.
.
I'm with you Larry, I like at least 2" between toms. I played a 10, 13, 16 set once and thought that they were really good intervals.

As for the cleaning method, I think it depends on your perspective. If the older wraps do yellow from the inside out, then obviously it won't deal with that simply by cleaning the surface, however, it will clean the surface and that might make a major difference. after all, in years gone by, I've played in some pretty smoky dive bars....
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Last edited by bigiainw; 05-21-2012 at 08:20 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-21-2012, 07:58 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,461
Default Re: Wow, I just safely and completely unyellowed my WMP

Oh Ok...yea I don't want anyone to ruin anyone's pre 1966 wrap. I can't speak intelligently about that. Seems like a good experiment to do on a pre 1966 cheapo drum for test purposes.

It does strike me odd that something could yellow from the inside out. That doesn't seem logical to me as the inside isn't exposed like the outer layer is. But I have no real firsthand knowledge so I will defer to the warnings.

I do think someone should experiment with the older wraps, in the interest of seeing if any damage occurs. Because if it is safe...people should know that. On the other hand if it is detrimental, people should know that too. I'd experiment but I don't have any pre 1966 drum wraps to experiment on.

The only question mark I have in my mind is...How does the person who is warning us know that peroxide will damage pre 1966 wraps? This is a fairly new discovery, the peroxide thing. Is he stating theory or does he have firsthand knowledge of an experiment where pre 1966 wrap was damaged by peroxide? I want facts not theory.

Sorry, I have to question everything that doesn't add up in my head. I just don't see how peroxide can damage anything, it's so close to being water. But if it does, I will believe it. I would have to see the results though.
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