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  #1  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:53 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default New lightweight cymbal stand

I've been working on a new cymbal stand design and finally got around to posting some pictures here

It's all aluminum.
It has interchangeable feet...so a player can put lighter feet on for a jazz gig or go with larger feet for the hard-hitting gigs.
I made a couple velcro feet for it as well.

The question is do drummers want or need something like this?

Just wanted to throw it out there and see what everybody thought.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Lightweight stands are definitely preferrable, as long as they're sturdy, and truly lightweight! Gibraltar, Ludwig and DW "lightweight" stands are actually pretty heavy IMO.

Keep in mind that price will be a consideration. Ludwig's classic 1400 stands are the ideal functional light, small stands, and even at premium vintage prices, they're maybe $75 each.

Also, I'm not sure that different feet for different playing levels is a necessary selling point. Better to offer the small or medium feet only, and help keep the price down.

Bermuda

Last edited by bermuda; 10-21-2014 at 06:27 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

That looks really cool - but will you be able to compete with companies cranking out stuff like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lightweight-...item3f3800fb58

This drum shop sells flat based cymbal stands - the regular I bought for $39, and this boom version is $49. Not bad, as the regular can hold my 22" K Light Ride with no problem. If your stands costs more, then you're competing with DW and Ludwig's offerings. What's the cost? If it's truly low cost and light, and can take the weight, I might be interested in three straight ones.
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2014, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I wish more hardware would feature the handle-style tightening mechanism you are using. Much easier to loosen/tighten on-the-fly than the typical wingnut style design.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:27 PM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I agree Bermuda.. that's why I started making my own. I found the DW flatbase to be deceivingly heavy.

Pricing has been the biggest question mark.
I don't know what guys would pay for something like this.
My gut says most drummers are utilitarian and poor.. so next to nothing is the best price.
Any thoughts?

The design has come-up too...
Stan at Pro Drum suggests modeling after the Ludwig 1400 stands-Go short and compact.
Todd at Taye says go taller and put a tilter on it..
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared young View Post
My gut says most drummers are utilitarian and poor.. so next to nothing is the best price.
Any thoughts?

The design has come-up too...
Stan at Pro Drum suggests modeling after the Ludwig 1400 stands-Go short and compact.
Todd at Taye says go taller and put a tilter on it..
Tilter for sure, or at least make it an option. And height will be an issue, although not so tall that it could wobble or tip.

Price-wise, you'll need to stay under $75. I think drummers will pay a little more (than the DW/Gibraltar/Ludwig stands) for the custom aspect and lightness, but there's a line you can't cross with the price. Drummers can easily find old Ludwig stands for $50-75, and are happy with those (that's what I do, although I'd like to see an alternative.)

Perhaps you can eliminate the hinged foot in order to save some labor expense?

Bermuda
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2014, 10:41 PM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared young View Post
I've been working on a new cymbal stand design and finally got around to posting some pictures here

It's all aluminum.
It has interchangeable feet...so a player can put lighter feet on for a jazz gig or go with larger feet for the hard-hitting gigs.
I made a couple velcro feet for it as well.

The question is do drummers want or need something like this?

Just wanted to throw it out there and see what everybody thought.

Thanks

Not a fan of the design aesthetic.

There isn't a gigging drummer out there who doesn't want/need lighter hardware/stands, but as mentioned, it needs to be sturdy.

The better looking stand/gear is going to get the nod and the sale. Chrome is the default king in the drum hardware market.

AXIS' VORTEX line has been out for years, its extremely well built and functional, but price and the look keep it in the AXIS warehouse for the most part.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2014, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

This certainly looks better than the Axis hardware previously mentioned. As also mentioned, does it really need hinged feet? Also could use some kind of tilter, and I can't imagine people would really want to switch out the foot pads for whatever minuscule weight reduction the smaller ones provide. It is interesting, though. How tall is the body section?

(One more thing- personally I think a lighter color, similar to Macbook aluminum, would work aesthetically with more people's current setups, but matte is a better choice than glossy/chromed IMO).
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2014, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I'm applauding your effort and your whole attitude. As much as I hate to admit it, like Les said, chrome will always be the most popular.

If I could find a cymbal stand that was :

As light as reasonably possible but sturdy and stiff. Aluminum all the way
Comes with a straight, no boom option
Where the tilter is a ball, so any angle is possible
That sports a no wingnut way to put the cymbal on, but doesn't take up any lateral real estate on the bell, at all
With everything engineered so there are no stupid parts at all to fall off
With nice thick lifetime rubber feet
It has to be shiny, (polished aluminum would work)
Flat or tripod base, whichever is lighter/stronger
That has soft plastic bushings between telescoping tubes
And nice big handles to tighten stuff down ala DW....

I mean really, what is SO hard about that????

Double braced stuff is stupid. I never understood it, it all comes back together as one leg at the business end anyway. Single braced stuff is just as sturdy. It's all on the hinges.
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2014, 07:37 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I'm not opposed to using a chrome over aluminum finish.
I'll check in to it.
I know that Garry Williams with SF Drum Co. makes chrome over aluminum lugs and they look great.
It seems like all the chrome plating guys I know all have nervous system damage...shakey hands...quite a hefty price to pay for shiny metal in my opinion.

Started working on a tilter today...

I like the idea of a ball tilter.
I don't like machining stainless so it may be awhile...
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2014, 11:43 AM
Monkey_Relish Monkey_Relish is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Looks good.
Just an idea, but how about instead of the lever screw for the height clamp, how about one of those cam lever locks like they use on bike seat posts and for the handle height adjustment on those small aluminium scooters you run over in the driveway ?
Just an open or close of the lever to adjust.

Wayne
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2014, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Aluminum can be polished to look like chrome. I used to install polished aluminum light reflectors in light fixtures. It's hard to tell the difference between highly polished aluminum and chrome. Less environmental impact too. The ball tilter would be the ticket. I wish I could go side to side with my cymbal tilter.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2014, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Only just seeing this for the first time.

1st up, major props for having the balls to go for this. Price is an issue for sure if you have an eye to mass market, but if your product is really good, & the performance/advantages justify the price to those who value it's features, there will be a market waiting (albeit much smaller). It's true, there are many drummers struggling for cash, but even when drummers have cash, many are conditioned towards the lowest common denominator. The expectation these days is almost always looking for the cheap deal. Unfortunately it's a western society thing fed by hunger for outsourced goods & high materialistic expectations.

Ok, that out of the way, I think you're onto something. My advice is not to cheapen the product in a search for price point, but equally to keep premium narrowed down to only those features/specifications that add performance value.

As for finishes, polishing aluminium then clear anodising produces an almost chrome like finish that sits very well with chrome plate appointments on most drum kits. Chrome plating is possible for sure, & it's the most durable option, but general plating companies struggle with it. It's not easy to get right, & you will need to search out a specialist plating company. Be aware that some aluminium grades are better for chrome plating than others. Unfortunately, the harder grades with the superior physical properties are usually the less ideal grades for chrome plating. We mane all of our drum hardware from T6 aluminium, & that's not easy to plate, but we get excellent results.

Finally, as we specialise in extremely lightweight drums, I'm certainly interested in your product at a drum company level. Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have or information you may wish to share.

Best regards, Andy.
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2014, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

When I worked in a drum retail stores, I'd say 95% of stand sales were boom stands.

Straight stands, for the most part, didn't sell well.

And previous versions of light weight stands always seemed to fail once they attempt to make a boom arm version.

I'd assume the market has changed a bit since then, as I do see lighter weight straight stands from a few manufactures now, but I'd also assume they can justify limited sales because they're balancing it with sales of heavier weight boom stands.

That said, I think your concept with the weights on the bottom is awesome.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2014, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
And previous versions of light weight stands always seemed to fail once they attempt to make a boom arm version.
I'd say that anyone seeking genuinely lightweight stands isn't likely to be needing boom stands anyway.

Bermuda
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  #16  
Old 10-24-2014, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I really like how that tilter looks. +1 to the plastic handles as well.

Yeah, an anodized aluminum stand would be great. I wish Yamaha would make their stands all matte finished instead of the partially matte/partially chrome layup they have now.

As for the previous no-wingnut suggestion, I think it would be wiser to do what you're doing now and let people in need of that use Coady posts or Cymbal Crowns- some people need the threads to tighten some cymbals, and some might need the threads close to the top to use accessories that grip on to the top of the post.
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  #17  
Old 10-24-2014, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I love the utilitarian design. I don't really get the different sized feet, but I do get the idea of unscrewing them for transport. I'd think the largest size feet would be standard and no other options.

I'd like a few straight stands with straight up brushed aluminum finish (to make them look even MORE utilitarian!)
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  #18  
Old 10-24-2014, 06:24 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I wailed on the stands last night for about an hour at AMP.
Glad to report that they held up just fine.

I used AL 6063 tubing on a couple stands to see how it compares to AL 6061..
I honestly can't tell the difference.

Also, I'm sending a few more parts off to get anodized.
Lets see how the clear anodizing turns out.
I'll post pictures once I get the parts back.

Thanks for the feedback everybody.
I'm getting a lot of great suggestions and advice.
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  #19  
Old 10-24-2014, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Looking great so far. I too would like to see it anodized ...
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2014, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Not to spoil the party but DW just put out the ultra-light 6000 series straight-stand a few months ago. They are considerably lighter/smaller than the 6700/6710 lightweight flat based stands.

http://store.dwdrums.com/p/dwcp6710u...ht-stand?pp=10
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  #21  
Old 10-24-2014, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

The DW stands look interesting but I really like what I'm seeing from the original poster in this thread. It's a good industrial look with enough useful features to be a real contender. The swivelling feet is a boon, given the number of times I've had to play on a non-level floor.
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2014, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCirino View Post
Not to spoil the party but DW just put out the ultra-light 6000 series straight-stand a few months ago. They are considerably lighter/smaller than the 6700/6710 lightweight flat based stands.
Which confirms everything I've said in the past - today's lightweight stands aren't lightweight, or at least not even close to the 1400 which is considered the standard of light, small, yet sufficiently sturdy stands.

But DW isn't the first to offer a lighter version of today's "lightweight" stand... Ludwig had one about 7 or 8 years ago, and it was pretty flimsy. And that's the challenge for a light, small stand - it has to be solid.

I've done a mod to some of my 1400 cymbal stands, where I substitute a 1400 snare base for the cymbal stand's flat base, for a little more stability with only a slightly larger footprint (by an inch or so.) It looks like a miniature, normal single-braced stand:



But I haven't had any issues with the flatbase version, maybe I'll swap em back for a slimmer look all around.

Bermuda
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Just for comparison, I weighed the latest Ludwig lightweight straight stand, the ATLAS Classic LAC25CS, and it comes in at about 5.2 lbs. A 1400 straight stand is considerably slimmer, and weighs 3.8 lbs.

I thought I read that the Arietta is 1.7 lbs, but I can't find it now. Is that true? If so, and if the stand is truly sturdy, and as slim as it looks, that's a welcome difference! Might encourage me to bring 3 cymbal stands on a gig instead of just 2!

Bermuda
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2014, 02:56 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

1.7 lbs with the delrin/velcro feet
1.8 lbs with the smallest AL feet
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2014, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCirino View Post
Not to spoil the party but DW just put out the ultra-light 6000 series straight-stand a few months ago. They are considerably lighter/smaller than the 6700/6710 lightweight flat based stands.

http://store.dwdrums.com/p/dwcp6710u...ht-stand?pp=10


i just bought these,two of them, I love them.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2014, 06:02 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I'm going to make some changes to the design.
I decided to switch to a two riser instead of a single riser.
I also think it would be cool if it fit inside my backpack when collapsed... 24" or less
Still on the fence regarding the footpads.
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2014, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared young View Post
I'm going to make some changes to the design.
I decided to switch to a two riser instead of a single riser.
I also think it would be cool if it fit inside my backpack when collapsed... 24" or less
Still on the fence regarding the footpads.
I think two is certainly more inline with the norm :) if you ever do a boom stand version, I think one riser would work fine (and honestly I don't think I'd ever use both risers- who needs a cymbal that high?- but I'm sure there are some people who would).

I think I already sort of mentioned this, but I don't think anybody would switch out the foot pads for their size. Having the option to use velcro (and the option not to) seems much more useful than arbitrarily differently sized/weighted feet.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2014, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Jared,

How does the stand hold up with a 22" ride? I'd love to try these babies out. They look amazing, and would look even better around my kit.
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  #29  
Old 11-08-2014, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

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Originally Posted by adrockdrums View Post
Jared,

How does the stand hold up with a 22" ride? I'd love to try these babies out. They look amazing, and would look even better around my kit.
I've got a prototype - no tilter - and have used an 18" crash/ride with no unpleasantness, so a 22 or 24" ride shouldn't be a problem. The footprint is considerably larger than my beloved 1400 stands, it's about 1/2 the weight, and is stable and elegant. Basically, any cymbal you would use on another lightweight stand, you would use with these, too. So, a 27" China at full height being whacked sideways with 2Bs is not a good idea for any lightweight stand.

Bermuda
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2014, 11:53 PM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Just for comparison, I weighed the latest Ludwig lightweight straight stand, the ATLAS Classic LAC25CS, and it comes in at about 5.2 lbs. A 1400 straight stand is considerably slimmer, and weighs 3.8 lbs.

I thought I read that the Arietta is 1.7 lbs, but I can't find it now. Is that true? If so, and if the stand is truly sturdy, and as slim as it looks, that's a welcome difference! Might encourage me to bring 3 cymbal stands on a gig instead of just 2!

Bermuda
Shipped a prototype this afternoon.
Here's a pic of the scale at Fedex.

I'm still moving forward.

I spent the last few weeks tweaking the design.
The goal has been to redesign or replace the two parts in the stand assembly that are expensive to machine.
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  #31  
Old 11-12-2014, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I've now used the stand 2 or 3 times, and the lightness in no way hampers its ability to hold a cymbal in place. I wish the same could be applied to a snare and hi-hat, and really lighten my load!

Can't wait for the finished version!

Bermuda
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  #32  
Old 11-12-2014, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I've now used the stand 2 or 3 times, and the lightness in no way hampers its ability to hold a cymbal in place. I wish the same could be applied to a snare and hi-hat, and really lighten my load!

Can't wait for the finished version!

Bermuda
And it looks quite nice even in this darker version. Very excited to see where this project goes :)
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  #33  
Old 11-12-2014, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I have been using pre-atlas flatbase stands for a few years now. Even though I like them for their weight I feel like this would be a sturdier alternative. When these go in production I definitely want a set. (if you have any prototypes you would like to give away, sell, get opinions on let me know) haha. But seriously I really like the fresh approach.
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  #34  
Old 11-14-2014, 02:50 AM
adrockdrums adrockdrums is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Just got a prototype in the mail today. Looking forward to trying this baby out. Seems pretty sturdy with my 22" ride on it. I'll give more feedback once I've played on it a bit.
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  #35  
Old 11-14-2014, 06:13 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I've been trying to source a rubber foot for the stand.. perhaps a replacement to the interchangeable feet.
If anyone knows of a good supplier please let me know.
Would prefer an off-the-shelf part.
Dims. are .250" x .500"
Thanks
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  #36  
Old 11-16-2014, 01:20 AM
adrockdrums adrockdrums is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

This stand looks great! So far, I've been impressed. I was worried about whether it would be too wobbly with a heavy 22" ride, but it's been pretty good. I'll be putting it to the test next week with some gigs. More updates to come.
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  #37  
Old 11-16-2014, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

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Originally Posted by Jared young View Post
I've been trying to source a rubber foot for the stand
I like how the legs look on this one a lot!
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  #38  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:09 PM
adrockdrums adrockdrums is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I had a chance to put the stand to the test this past weekend. And it performed well. I used it for my ride, and had no issues of a wobbly stand. I have a pretty heavy ride, and I was worried how it would hold up, but no problems at all.

I let a friend borrow it for a gig, too, and he loved it. Once again, no issues. I want to try one with a tilter and put a bigger crash on it to see how it holds up when it's extended higher.

All in all, it was great to play on it (and even better to carry something so light to a gig).
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  #39  
Old 11-26-2014, 08:45 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

Started on version 2 of the Arietta cymbal stand.
mods:
2 riser
collapsed height of 20"
Extended height of 44"
Shorter legs
rosette style tilter
anticipated weight- 1.5lbs
6mm thread
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2014, 05:14 AM
Jared young Jared young is offline
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Default Re: New lightweight cymbal stand

I got a little busy with other projects.
Things are finally starting to calm down.
I was able to spend a little more time on the stands tonight.
Here's a pic of the new collar.
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