My DW saga just keeps going and going... - Page 2

gregcon · #41 05-04-2012, 10:48 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, "I think they will take care of all of it!" I've never owned a DW kit. I've thought about it though.... and I'm watching. I betcha they make you very happy in the end, and soon.

tamadrm · #42 05-04-2012, 10:52 PM

This is beginning to almost look like the emperor has new clothes kind of a senario.Could the drums you have be the benchmark for what DW calls "within tollerance"these days?Should we accept them as the new standard,because thats what the drum company says they are?I think NOT.

I don't know the answer here,but if you and a company....any company for that matter,can't arrive at a place of customer satisfaction with a product,then it time to part ways.If thats the best they can offer,and you're not satisfied,after all this time,then time to cut you losses(yes time and stress,as well as dissapointment and anger do have a price).I also think that maybe they owe you something for all this aggrivation,in the way of some free gear.

I agree with Mike and a few others here.I love Ludwig stuff,but if after all this time,they couldn't make something right,within reason,then I would just say,...enough is enough.I want my money back.

We all have our standards,whether it be playing or gear,and if you believe that you're being reasonable,and not overly sensitive,then sent them back.How long does this have to go on?At this point,the only advice I can give you is,it will feel better when you stop hitting yourself in the head with that brick.

You did your best.now they have to do theirs.

Steve B

section8usmc · #43 05-05-2012, 01:36 AM

Boom, what happened was, I read the first post on this thread, and instantly did all of the back reading for the other threads, thinking I had read this one, which I hadn't done. So that's why I was all discombobulated. Lol.

Anyway, let me say this: JG was "out of the office" for a time doing things to promote the company, and while Eddie Haskel there was putting on the niceties for Mr Cleaver, he was being typical Eddie behind his back. So, JG comes back, gets this letter from you, which puts him beside himself. Now, this poor guy has to go through the entire damn factory to unf*#$ everything this guy f*#$ed up. That hoop could have been "in the mix" reguardless if the drum itself was custom.

You seem to be much like me. You don't want to be the jackass complain, even though you paid for it. You just want what you paid for and call it a day, yes ? It's hard to be a d#*$ about things if you just don't have it in you. I'm that way, and I'm a friggin Marine. Over time, I've learned you just have to be sometimes. I would have absolutely lost it by this point though. You need to be put up for sainthood. Lol.

Last, I don't care if you spent $500 or $5,000 on that kit. Musical instruments are supposed to be perfect. Even a base model wrap set by any company that specializes in musical instruments, should put out a perfect product. Period. So that $500 kit doesn't have the best hoops, or the finest woods, or bla blah blah. The bearing edges should be perfect. They go through the same processes as their flagship models for most of that stuff. The drum should be in perfect round. Perfect. I've measued drums at the store. High end and low end (from established drum companies). The idea you can only get so close is a joke. Modern practices make for such tight tolerances, there is no excuse for anything but perfection when it comes to the basics of it. The glues used today, and the bonding processes. The whole reason all of that has been developed is to get a constant out of the product you are making. So, an 1/8 inch or even 1/16 inch is unacceptable by todays standards. I used to build machines. I worked on a $36 million aircraft right out of high school, and our squadron was a test squadron for all the latest classified stuff. So, to say I've had experiences with almost every material imaginable and the very closest tolerances is not an exaggeration. Yes, even wood can be brought to such high standards.The wrap or other finishes should be perfect. Every single drum should be inspected carefully. So its a 50 cent gromet. QC people are supposed to be acting as if they had just purchased the product themselves. Period. They are supposed to be as anal as you and I. Painted and buffed finish ? I don't care if there is a finger tip sized blemish. It better be sent back to buffing. That QC's job. That's ALL THEY DO ! Good luck Captain ! And God speed. Lol !

section8usmc · #44 05-05-2012, 02:18 AM

This forum rocks, and for the most part, people are helpful, supportive, and it is so good to see how cool the drum community is. I have to drive to Milwaukee for a decent music store and there is an awesome one there. Cascio's Interstate Music. 30,000 square feet of floor space. Awesome. I love going there. Clean. Perfectly lit. I have absolute faith in them backing everything, so I hope to avoid at least those issues. You ask for something and they take care of you yesterday. I'm going to be getting a Stage Custom...all of them actually. Lol. Really. Every tom, every snare, and all 4 base drums. Why ? It will never be moved or gigged. I like Akira Jimbo, Steve Gadd, and the likes of independent drummers. I don't want to be tied in with a band. I play 100% for fun. I will definitely be watching for more posts on this ! Thanks for the continuous updates. Some people say its whining. Screw em. It was an emotional roller coaster to read, and I would be just as upset if not more so, so don't you dare feel bad for one second about any of it ! I'm glad you shared in such detail, and so are most others. Don't like it, don't read it. Lol

larryace · #45 05-05-2012, 02:22 AM

I'm starting to think it's time to abandon ship. It's not working. You only get one chance at a 2nd chance in my book. Returning the kit will send the proper message to all involved.

I like you Craig, but you are too nice, in situations like these, for your own Goode lol.

zambizzi · #46 05-05-2012, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I'm starting to think it's time to abandon ship.

That's exactly what I'd do.

Boom · #47 05-05-2012, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

Perhaps you could just send all the drums back and get your money back.

[quote=larryz;995336 You have the Starclassics and are happy with them, so if I were you I'd send the whole kit and kaboodle back and get a full refund asap. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirborneSFC

Still for the money you spend on that kit I would, as would anyone else, expect quality beyond what you have. I would ask for a refund honestly with all the trouble you have had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

Personally, I would've written DW off by now and just gotten my money back to go with somebody else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM

I'd send 'em all back TO THE DRUM SHOP you got them from for a full refund and take my business to a different shop and manufacturer. Make them both share in the crow feast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamadrm

I would just say,...enough is enough.I want my money back.
Steve B

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I'm starting to think it's time to abandon ship. It's not working. You only get one chance at a 2nd chance in my book. Returning the kit will send the proper message to all involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi

That's exactly what I'd do.

There seems to be a theme here. Sigh...lol. Well I left a message on JG's voice mail box tonight. I'm sure he'll get it if he hasn't already. I guess I'll know shortly what is going on. As Mike has said, I guess I feel I've invested too much energy, time, emotion for me to quit. As crazy as it sounds, I'm still in shock about all of this. It really seems so improbable that it would end like this.

It feels like we got to the goal-line and are just going to punt (american football reference).

section8usmc · #48 05-05-2012, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I'm starting to think it's time to abandon ship. It's not working. You only get one chance at a 2nd chance in my book. Returning the kit will send the proper message to all involved.

I like you Craig, but you are too nice, in situations like these, for your own Goode lol.

One chance at a second chance. Nicely put. The only time I could excuse it more, would be the few instances I have, where they were even more willing to go over the top the second time to keep my business. An offer I couldn't refuse. However, now that I think about it, that's pretty much the way I've dealt with companies all along. Second time on the same product is a no go. At that point, I say, you know what, give me my money back. Unfortunately there are lots of instances where there is no second choice, whether its something you for some reason can't live without, or maybe there just isn't a close second, or a second at all. Well, there are other companies, but you have sit yourself down and have a chat. Can you live without THIS kit, or a product from THIS company ? Is there a second choice for you ? We all have our favorites (well, most of us, some just love every drum company and own many). I don't know what I would do if I couldn't get Yammies. I'm sure I'd eventuality find something I could be truly happy with, but it would have to be truly happy, not just a "eh, these will do" attitude. Dig deep, and figure out what your heart says. Then do the same with your brain. What is logical thought telling you ? Find a compromise and go from there. I feel for you Craig, I really, really do. I've been there with a car company. It killed me inside. We still own 1, but had 3 of that brand. It was the dealer service, not the overall company, but I finally broke. I just couldn't take it anymore. How much more can you take ? Something only you can answer.

larryace · #49 05-05-2012, 05:47 AM

Craig, if you want to stick it out, stick it out. We aren't the ones who really feel the pain. We are just offering up our best stuff here. It's easy to armchair quarterback.

larryace · #50 05-05-2012, 06:12 AM

Feel free to copy/paste/edit and send. What's the worst that could happen?

Mr. Goode,

As you should be aware by now, for over one full year now, I've been, and am still enduring, a virtual folly of issues, that amounts to a comedy of errors, surrounding the purchase of a set of Collectors. I'd like you to understand how unfunny this whole ordeal has been for me. With the entirely unacceptable condition at the 2nd attempt of getting me a proper set of drums, a set that bears your personal signature no less, I've reached a point where I've decided that I've wasted enough of both of our time, and will be returning the kit to the dealer I got it from for a full refund. I'm deeply disappointed in everything from my dealer, all the way up to you, and everything in between, to be honest about it. What a nightmare this has been.

It's shameful the way your company handled their own multiple problems, not to mention holding up my funds for over a year. If you want to keep me in your good graces, the only thing that will suffice now is a brand new set of drums, exactly as I ordered them, in perfect shape, free of charge, within 6 weeks. Anything less is not worth my time. I am requesting a personal email from you Mr. Goode, letting me know if you plan to make good on this. I feel you owe me that courtesy. If you aren't going to make good on this, then I need to hear it directly from you. On the other hand, if you do make good, I will champion your company as if nothing ever happened. Meanwhile I will be returning what I was sent me to my dealer for a full refund.

Deeply disappointed,
Craig

section8usmc · #51 05-05-2012, 06:14 AM

Well Craig, now ya went ahead and done it ! I blame you fully for this ! LOL ! After chatting with you today, and posting on this issue, I got to thinking, what exactly WOULD I do if I had the go rounds with my company of choice ? Where would I go ?

Well I just got done doing extensive reading. I already know for the most part which drums I have heard in the past that I really liked the sound of. Not to mention, listening online. I realize that only goes so far, even on a great sound set up, as nothing is going to be exact to what you hear in person, so I well aware of this. Where I would put companies overall in my personal book of likes and dislikes, for reasons to various to go over for this purpose, have been hashed over through the years, and I am still always looking, because it is cool to see what everyone offers. I figured though, for my purposes, it would be important to have a GREAT second choice, not just one I could settle for in case I was not able for whatever reason, to get what I really wanted. Life deals us lemons, sometimes we get the whole damn tree.

That said, I think I would likely go with Sonor. Now, I realize that dealing with shere numbers of kits I have heard from them and the number of kits on the market and out there being played VS others such as Pearl, Tama, etc., that it is lopsided in that respect, as well as people I have talked to that own them, so the "failure rate" if you will, be it the product itself, or service after the sale, unless they were a total POS, is naturally going to be lower. However, even taking that into consideration, I think the failure numbers seem very, very low, and customer satisfaction for any failures I don't know I have seen any complaints in that department. They always seem to make good. On top of all of it, they are just damn good looking drums. As far as looks go, It took a little growing on me, but now I have to say that I think they are some of the most beautiful drums I have ever seen.So, I guess I should thank you, because if I do end up unhappy, I have a solid plan B. Going about getting them may be a whole different issue in this area, I don't know that much yet, but I soon will...just in case.

Boom · #52 05-05-2012, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

Craig, if you want to stick it out, stick it out. We aren't the ones who really feel the pain. We are just offering up our best stuff here. It's easy to armchair quarterback.

I'll say this. There are a lot of bright people on this forum, and I'm fortunate that quite a few have chimed in to aid me in some way during this trek. I appreciate all that you've said Larry. I appreciate that you think I should punt, but also that you realize that it is easy on the outside looking in.

I do want opinions. Even those that go against my thought process. Actually, I want those a lot. That's why we get involved in discussions, isn't it? To learn and teach.

I joined this forum because I had been lurking for quite some time and then my DW issues came up and I didn't know what to do. So it was time to join up and learn directly from you guys. I've learned a ton during all of this. I've sent PM's to many of you. And you've all been gracious to answer them.

So no matter how this turns out, or if I make a good decision or a boneheaded one, thanks to all of you for your help. I sincerely mean that. THANKS!

Roy E. Munson · #53 05-05-2012, 06:14 AM

Hate to say it boom cause I love my DW's, but you should send them back and move on. It's only gonna cause more headaches and like I told you before everytime you play them, or somebody asks you about them, or you just look at them....Its gonna bring back the shitty memories. You should feel nirvana when you play your dream kit, look at the your dream kit, and talk about your dream kit. If you keep this kit (and again this hurts to say it) you NEVER will. Send them back! Reassess what you want. Buy the kit you deserve, and will love. The kit DW should have sent you.

Boom · #54 05-05-2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

Feel free to copy/paste/edit and send

Mr. Goode,

As you should be aware by now, for over one full year now, I've been, and am still enduring, a virtual folly of issues, that amounts to a comedy of errors, surrounding the purchase of a set of Collectors. I'd like you to understand how unfunny this whole ordeal has been for me. With the entirely unacceptable condition of the 2nd attempt at getting me a proper set of drums, a set that bears your personal signature no less, I've decided that I've wasted enough of both of our time and will be returning the kit to the dealer I got it from for a full refund. I'm deeply disappointed in everything from my dealer, all the way up to you.

It's shameful the way your company handled their own multiple problems not to mention holding up my funds for over a year. If you want to keep me in your good graces, the only thing that will suffice is a brand new set of drums, exactly as I ordered them, in perfect shape, free of charge, within 6 weeks. Anything less is not worth my time. I am requesting a personal email from you Mr. Goode, letting me know if you plan to make good on this. I feel you owe me that courtesy. Meanwhile I will be returning what I was sent me to my dealer for a full refund.

Deeply disappointed,
Craig

Larry, simply put, you are awesome. Just reading this makes me feel better! When you say that you think I've been too nice for my own good (Goode), I think, really? I've gotten an attorney, called and spoke to 4 different DW reps (some so often that they know my voice), started multiple threads, and sent JG a certified letter. So I think, man, maybe I've been crazy or nasty.

But then I read your letter and I realize, in some ways, you are correct, Larry. Because your letter seems so far from what I'd write, that it makes me laugh. And well...that's a little sad. lol It's sad because I also think its acceptable to send that letter. But I wouldn't without some urging.

I know you play DW's also (right?). So I appreciate your fervor in this as it isn't based on a bias or something.

I will say this, if I end up having to punt, I will be furious. I will then realize that the past year has been a total joke of a drum buying experience. That it couldn't have gone much worse.

JG, if you are reading this, know that I'm still giving you another 2nd chance as Larry puts it. Mistakes happen. Make it right. Making it right doesn't just mean sending me the kit I should have gotten 9 months ago before I was gutted as I was being slowrolled and stonewalled. Giving me what I was due all of the time, at this point, well, you will not have won me back as you had promised on the phone. At this point, would you think it made up for all of this? Just to get me what I paid for?

We'll see. I'm now not confident at all. Next week I'll know and therefore you will all know. Thanks again for coming for the ride.

Boom · #55 05-05-2012, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by section8usmc

So, I guess I should thank you, because if I do end up unhappy, I have a solid plan B.

Section 8, I dig you man! You just showed up and between PM's and your posts, you crack me up and fire me up. Just wanted to say thanks for showing up to the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy E. Munson

Hate to say it boom cause I love my DW's, but you should send them back and move on. It's only gonna cause more headaches and like I told you before everytime you play them, or somebody asks you about them, or you just look at them....Its gonna bring back the shitty memories. You should feel nirvana when you play your dream kit, look at the your dream kit, and talk about your dream kit. If you keep this kit (and again this hurts to say it) you NEVER will. Send them back! Reassess what you want. Buy the kit you deserve, and will love. The kit DW should have sent you.

Roy, when you have turned, things really have gone sour. I appreciate your candor here. You are correct. As things stand right now, no doubt I would never look at these drums with the nirvana you speak of. I know that if it were my company, that I would and could still win me over. It isn't impossible. But, it does look like this bridge might be burned. Thanks man for all of the memories! :)

larryace · #56 05-05-2012, 06:37 AM

I'm a sucker for David vs Goliath stories. Go D!

I say send the email. Like I said, what is the worst that could happen? You'd be in the same place you are. What if it works? You'll have gotten a free set of DW's, with a great story to go along with it..

Everyone wants to placate the pissed off person. It's an excellent strategy for prevailing. Squeaky wheel. It requires being genuinely noticeably pissed off though. I've been really good at that lately. You should let me pretend I'm you. It would benefit you, and it would give me more satisfaction than you know.

Boom · #57 05-05-2012, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I'm a sucker for David vs Goliath stories. Go D!

I say send the email. Like I said, what is the worst that could happen? You'd be in the same place you are. What if it works? You'll have gotten a free set of DW's, with a great story to go along with it..

Everyone wants to placate the pissed off person. It's an excellent strategy for prevailing. Squeaky wheel. It requires being genuinely noticeably pissed off though. I've been really good at that lately. You should let me pretend I'm you. It would benefit you, and it would give me more satisfaction than you know.

Dude, you are cracking me up! Pretend to be me so that you get satisfaction. I love it. I believe you are serious which really has me laughing...for good reasons though. I might release the pitbull Larry onto them next week. Practice mauling over the weekend so your skills are sharp. Your time is coming. :)

Boom · #58 05-05-2012, 06:45 AM

This has to be a horrible reason to not want to punt...so no need to point it out...but I also bought a lot of DW hardware to go with these drums. The stands I would not want to keep if this ends with me returning the drums. So then I just lose money on selling them used. Man, what a friggin bitter pill that will be.

larryace · #59 05-05-2012, 07:00 AM

free set! free set! free set! free set! free set! free set ! free set!

Just hit send.

BYUDOG · #60 05-05-2012, 07:15 AM

Boom i applaud you for still keeping it together after all of this.You are a much better person than me. By now i would have posted something on here so ugly that the forum would have made me leave for use of such language.I like to think of myself as a patience person......but you are a SAINT my friend.

I Agree with Larry.......You should get a FREE SET and ALL HARDWARE INCLUDED and John Goode should deliver it personally to your house and set it up for you.

section8usmc · #61 05-05-2012, 08:14 AM

Well, maybe as someone said before, you should send him an email to this thread and the other ones (3 others I think ?). You have A LOT of support here, and a lot of people that want to see them do right by you. Remember dude, word of mouth is the best advertisement. Think if this had been all settled the first time, and they sent a ton of free stuff for the trouble, or the multitude of other things that companies do for people they have wronged in some way, you be happy as a pig in s*#t, and you'd be letting everyone on here and everywhere else how friggin awesome your drums are, and how it was the greatest buying experience you've ever had, and so on.

It should work both ways. It doesn't matter what you say or do now. It isn't hearsay. or deformation of character or whatever other legal terms you want to throw in. It happened. They polished a turd and sent it to you. It may be polished, but it's stil a turd. Then you got through all this crap, and all they really did it seems, is sign a higher polished turd. I am not one to interveign in other's affairs, so I wouldn't do something like that, but I think you should. He needs to know just how much this other POS that he had working there really cost him. People all over the world are on this forum, and it is likely the biggest drum forum on the net. Bad for business. Real bad. Someone looking to buy their fist kit comes here, and this thread is one of the top ones, you do the math. New people join this site every day or close to it. That's a ton of potential business that just decided to go with someone else. Ouch. We have been backing you, many of the others from the start, and still, you're stuck with the turd. This has gone on long enough. I am not frustrated with you, but I am frustrated seeing you repeatedly get the shaft. As much time as has passed, Larry is totally right, and that is shameful, and completely unacceptable. If we were say, 3 months in, that would be bad enough, but you only live once. How much time are you willing to waste...of your life ? If it was going somewhere, great, but it is going nowhere. Not to mention, when was the last time you slept good ? When was the last stress free day you had without this in the back (or forefront for that matter) of your mind all day long. I'm a wreck because I am waiting on the money to finally get here so I can order mine, so I am without the bad experience, and it it is affecting my daily life at times. How about you after being run through the ringer ? Sorry for writing another book guys, but it takes up a lot less room than all of these people replying over and over to someone who posted 6 or 8 picutres of their kit. LOL

cornelius · #62 05-05-2012, 03:26 PM

Well this is not the thread that I was expecting... My .2 - They should send you a new grommet and Bass drum hoops. You have a great looking kit that sounds amazing, and the nick on the reso edge of the tom will not be an audible factor.

Years ago, when I bought a Collector's kit - the kick drum wasn't date/note stamped, and one of the hoops was warped. I sent the drum back to the factory, and within a week everything was fixed. I know that a lot of this is principle (except for the hoops) - the grommet and the bearing edge will not affect the drum's sound. But like you, I just couldn't get past the fact that they forgot to stamp my kik shell - even though this had no bearing on the drum's sound.

Once you fix these tweaks and you start playing these great drums, you'll focus more on what the music, and quickly move on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

Feel free to copy/paste/edit and send. What's the worst that could happen?

Mr. Goode,

As you should be aware by now, for over one full year now, I've been, and am still enduring, a virtual folly of issues, that amounts to a comedy of errors, surrounding the purchase of a set of Collectors. I'd like you to understand how unfunny this whole ordeal has been for me. With the entirely unacceptable condition at the 2nd attempt of getting me a proper set of drums, a set that bears your personal signature no less, I've reached a point where I've decided that I've wasted enough of both of our time, and will be returning the kit to the dealer I got it from for a full refund. I'm deeply disappointed in everything from my dealer, all the way up to you, and everything in between, to be honest about it. What a nightmare this has been.

It's shameful the way your company handled their own multiple problems, not to mention holding up my funds for over a year. If you want to keep me in your good graces, the only thing that will suffice now is a brand new set of drums, exactly as I ordered them, in perfect shape, free of charge, within 6 weeks. Anything less is not worth my time. I am requesting a personal email from you Mr. Goode, letting me know if you plan to make good on this. I feel you owe me that courtesy. If you aren't going to make good on this, then I need to hear it directly from you. On the other hand, if you do make good, I will champion your company as if nothing ever happened. Meanwhile I will be returning what I was sent me to my dealer for a full refund.

Deeply disappointed,
Craig

If you send this - proofread it first...

Boom · #63 05-05-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelius

Years ago, when I bought a Collector's kit - the kick drum wasn't date/note stamped, and one of the hoops was warped. I sent the drum back to the factory, and within a week everything was fixed. I know that a lot of this is principle (except for the hoops) - the grommet and the bearing edge will not affect the drum's sound. But like you, I just couldn't get past the fact that they forgot to stamp my kik shell - even though this had no bearing on the drum's sound.

Once you fix these tweaks and you start playing these great drums, you'll focus more on what the music, and quickly move on...

The problem for the bolded line is that..I assume you didn't just blindly send the drum back right? It is nearly 72 hours since I let them know of these problems. They have not gotten back to me on what to do. They passed me on to JG. And he hasn't called. I then left a voice message also. I clearly can't get this fixed if they won't fix it.

I bet they didn't leave you hanging for days on a decision, did they?

8Mile · #64 05-05-2012, 04:30 PM

Boom, this really sucks. I'd be pretty irate, too. If the guy who runs the place is inspecting your drums and putting his own signature on something that isn't right, what chance do the rest of us have who don't get this level of inspection?

If it was me, I would ask for replacements for the items that weren't right and try to get past this as quickly as possible. I'm not beholden to any manufacturers so it's not a matter of principle for me, I'd just want the problems fixed so I could start playing my drums.

You have every right to ask for more, though. The absurdity of this ordeal justifies some extra compensation and you stand on solid ground to ask for more.

One thing, though: I wouldn't freak out if 24 hours went by and I hadn't heard anything back. Now, if this stretches out for over a week, I'd be calling back and asking what the hell is going on. But that's just me. Being a little squeakier wheel might actually help your cause. But if it was me, I wouldn't expect a response that quickly.

Again, I hear these types of stories all the time about all the drum manufacturers. It is clearly an industry-wide problem. For some reason, the consumer seems to have just accepted this level of customer service.

I guess, as consumers, we all shoulder the burden for this, because we've allowed it to happen. We love our drums and we love the names on them and we let them push us around because we just want our stuff. It's like a junkie pimping himself out for a fix.

Hey, the more I think about this, sic Larry on 'em!!

larryace · #65 05-05-2012, 04:37 PM

Yea, sic me, sic me! I feel like a guard dog who is this close to pulling the stake out of the ground I am chained to...

Lemme at em, lemme at em...

The pen is mightier than the sword.

That saying needs upodating.

The keyboard is mightier than the glock.

I like JG. But he still has to answer to his customers when they have problems. I fix any issues I didn't get right either in my line of work. I expect the same from anyone I pay too.

Boom · #66 05-05-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamadrm

Could the drums you have be the benchmark for what DW calls "within tollerance"these days?Should we accept them as the new standard,because thats what the drum company says they are?I think NOT.
Steve B

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile

For some reason, the consumer seems to have just accepted this level of customer service.

I guess, as consumers, we all shoulder the burden for this, because we've allowed it to happen. We love our drums and we love the names on them and we let them push us around because we just want our stuff. It's like a junkie pimping himself out for a fix.

I think these two points should not be overlooked. What this really boils down to is how much should a consumer be willing to accept in performance/appearance of a product and customer service.

I feel that some in this thread might accept a Lamborghini even if the door handle sticks. Sure, it doesn't affect performance, but it will agitate you every single time you go to get into the vehicle. Some would accept that. Others will not accept it. I guess it is easier on your mind if you're in the former camp. I, on the other hand, have a problem with it.

If I was told by a drum manufacturer that if I fork down 4-7k on their drums, that I could count on getting sent drums that have obvious flaws in them that affect both appearance and performance, I'd say, no thank you.

If they then added that if I did get those drums and had a problem with it, that I'd have to get an attorney to get anyone to address them. I'd say no thank you.

If I was told that they would start remaking the kit Nov 7 but not actually start them till jan 13. I'd say no thank you.

If I knew I'd be told the drums are done in mid February and would be out in a week and then have to call 3 weeks later to find out there was a problem (because they won't contact me even via email) and they aren't ready. I'd say no thank you.

If I was then sent a replacement kit with some issues a full year after I originally purchased them and then not told what to do about it and ignored. I'd say, no thank you.

The problem is, I didn't think the above was possible. It never crossed my mind. But no worries! My ignorance is lifting. I won't assume that kind of stuff is impossible ever again.

Boom · #67 05-05-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile

Boom, this really sucks. I'd be pretty irate, too. If the guy who runs the place is inspecting your drums and putting his own signature on something that isn't right, what chance do the rest of us have who don't get this level of inspection?

If it was me, I would ask for replacements for the items that weren't right and try to get past this as quickly as possible. I'm not beholden to any manufacturers so it's not a matter of principle for me, I'd just want the problems fixed so I could start playing my drums.

You have every right to ask for more, though. The absurdity of this ordeal justifies some extra compensation and you stand on solid ground to ask for more.

One thing, though: I wouldn't freak out if 24 hours went by and I hadn't heard anything back. Now, if this stretches out for over a week, I'd be calling back and asking what the hell is going on. But that's just me. Being a little squeakier wheel might actually help your cause. But if it was me, I wouldn't expect a response that quickly.

Again, I hear these types of stories all the time about all the drum manufacturers. It is clearly an industry-wide problem. For some reason, the consumer seems to have just accepted this level of customer service.

I guess, as consumers, we all shoulder the burden for this, because we've allowed it to happen. We love our drums and we love the names on them and we let them push us around because we just want our stuff. It's like a junkie pimping himself out for a fix.

Hey, the more I think about this, sic Larry on 'em!!

8mile, my man! The bolded area is fine if when I told the CS about it I at least got a mock "I'm sorry to hear about your continued troubles. I'm sure this will be taken care of soon. I think JG will want to handle this himself so I'm going to leave a message for him. He'll get back to you as soon as he can."

But that's not what I got. First I got *crickets*. You know, complete silence. Then just a "But John went over them." Then I was put on hold and he came back and said that he would leave a message for JG.

I must be the biggest moron ever, but I feel some courtesy is in order. Keep in mind, this CS, I've spoken to him at least 4 times. He knows what is going on.

I'm sitting tight. The only thing I'm doing is starting and participating in this thread. This thread would never have been created if I had heard from JG or gotten a better response from CS. But you know the saying, "Fool me once, shame on me...fool me twice..."

I've seen this exact behavior before in this ordeal. And that one led to me having to get an attorney to get a response. And I can remember that morning very well when I had to call an attorney for the first time in my life. I doubt I'll forget it anytime soon.

Understand, 8mile, I hope it doesn't come across as I'm coming at you. Because I'm not. Just want to clarify because written words can be misinterpreted. I appreciate your post and your help. You've been helping me from the very beginning. Thanks.

Boom · #68 05-05-2012, 04:58 PM

Larry, keep mashing those teeth on that tree stump. You'll have your shot soon.

#69 05-05-2012, 05:05 PM

If you buy a new set of drums, they should be perfect. If they are not, then the company should acknowledge the mistake as soon as possible, and rectify it in a timely manner. If they dick you around, and treat you like a nobody, then you should move on to another company. They won't miss you, and you won't miss them.

Chunkaway · #70 05-05-2012, 05:05 PM

Okay, after reading through the other thread and thinking about this some more, I have changed my mind. You have been plenty patient. I'd send the drums back and start over with a different kit.

I just got a Ludwig Legacy kit that was, from what I can tell, flawless. That's the way your DW kit should be.

Good luck!

larryace · #71 05-05-2012, 05:17 PM

Craig, I absolutely will be your agent in this matter if you choose. I would send the email. You have the most powerful bargaining chip, the money. Retract, or threaten to retract the money and you will see action. So far you haven't even tried that tactic yet.

Everybody knows that to get sales people to react, you have to shut them down. It's time you acted like the boss you are, or at least allow me to take over negotiations, or send the email, or all of the above.

This is a fight and you're being way to nice. Again, I am not out to get John, I have a ton of R for him, but I'm on your side in this matter.

Boom · #72 05-05-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balto

If you buy a new set of drums, they should be perfect. If they are not, then the company should acknowledge the mistake as soon as possible, and rectify it in a timely manner. If they dick you around, and treat you like a nobody, then you should move on to another company. They won't miss you, and you won't miss them.

All true, sticks. All true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunkaway

Okay, after reading through the other thread and thinking about this some more, I have changed my mind. You have been plenty patient. I'd send the drums back and start over with a different kit.

I just got a Ludwig Legacy kit that was, from what I can tell, flawless. That's the way your DW kit should be.

Good luck!

thanks chunk! Welcome to the dark side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

Craig, I absolutely will be your agent in this matter if you choose. I would send the email. You have the most powerful bargaining chip, the money. Retract, or threaten to retract the money and you will see action. So far you haven't even tried that tactic yet.

Everybody knows that to get sales people to react, you have to shut them down. It's time you acted like the boss you are, or at least allow me to take over negotiations, or send the email, or all of the above.

This is a fight and you're being way to nice. Again, I am not out to get John, I have a ton of R for him, but I'm on your side in this matter.

I will say this Larry. If I had another child, their name would be Larry. Heck, even as a girl's name it would be cool!

Ok. I'm going to give this thing till Wednesday. Why Wednesday? It will have been a full week from when I contacted them. If there isn't a resolution, then plan B...Larry...will be set in motion.

I have no doubt that you would do great by me. Just having someone else, that is also a DW customer, fighting for me would speak volumes. And as a DW customer, you can see if I'm crazy or not! lol.

You are correct. I haven't threatened yanking the money. I don't even know how to go about that, because I absolutely do not want to deal with that shop in anyway ever again. But, I'm sure it can be done. I just can't believe that JG and DW want it to end like this.

larryace · #73 05-05-2012, 05:35 PM

Well I hope you don't have to use me, but if you choose to, let me assure you that I will represent you in a totally professional, but unyielding manner. I am a DW owner, and I love the drums, so there is no personal vendetta's or anything that I'm satisfying here. In case you're concerned, I would not personally disrespect anyone at DW, at all. Not my style. You can get what you want without getting personal. It's just business. I would like to see you get a new set of drums for your trouble. I would assure John if he makes good, I will personally trumpet that fact, and make sure it is well known here that DW stands by it's customers when there are problems. He needs to know that this is a very public problem, and people are watching as to how he will reconcile this.

Boom · #74 05-05-2012, 05:42 PM

No need to reassure, Larry. I already got all of that from your earlier posts. I know you aren't a maniac. I'm obviously just kidding about you practicing your mauling techniques.

I expect to hear something before Wednesday. I'm not hopeful about what I'll hear. But I'll wait. If I really don't matter enough, then yeah, have at them. I think it will be good for you as a customer. And it might even be good for them. Thanks again for your continued passion in helping me attempt to get whole here.

larryace · #75 05-05-2012, 05:49 PM

You got it Craig, We gotta stick together. Plus it's just wrong what you have been going through. You're such a nice guy and deserve good things.

BigDinSD · #76 05-06-2012, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

Well I hope you don't have to use me, but if you choose to, let me assure you that I will represent you in a totally professional, but unyielding manner. I am a DW owner, and I love the drums, so there is no personal vendetta's or anything that I'm satisfying here. In case you're concerned, I would not personally disrespect anyone at DW, at all. Not my style. You can get what you want without getting personal. It's just business. I would like to see you get a new set of drums for your trouble. I would assure John if he makes good, I will personally trumpet that fact, and make sure it is well known here that DW stands by it's customers when there are problems. He needs to know that this is a very public problem, and people are watching as to how he will reconcile this.

I was just going to copy and re-paste larry's entire post, and put my name at the bottom.

Well spoken Mr. Larry. I too run with DW drums and gear which serve me well.

Indeed you are correct about the magnitude and reach of this forum. "Google" a few words such as negative, DW, feedback, review, bearing edge, grommet and the post will pop up.

We all stand with you Boom. We need to. We're all drummers sharing common causes and desires. When JG clears this all up, I'll edit all my negative comments and words out.

I'm sure he is a man of honor and stands behind the professional character of his company which he has given his life to. Doesn't matter if you're a top name pro. His service and quality should bear no prejudices to anyone that puts down their hard cash.

I'll just shut up now and get off the podium.

section8usmc · #77 05-06-2012, 01:47 AM

Lar - ry...Lar - ry...LAR - RY...LAR - RY...! LOL. I'm all for this in all seriousness. I am really baffled by all of this to be honest. Like Craig was saying, its just not something you expect to happen. Every company has an issue from time to time. For a company here in the states it seems improbable that stuff could go on this long. It really is a head scratcher. You would expect something like this from an overseas company, or one that everyone knows is worthless.

It anyone ever does get through, I'd want to find out how this happened. Was it because this guy screwed up the company that bad ? I don't know. I suppose its possible. The thing that just gets me though, is that although I've never dealt with DW, I have heard overwhelming good vs bad, to include quality, customer service, etc. I mean, from all the reading I've done since I decided to jump into the acoustic end of the pool (and believe me, its A LOT), this doesn't seem like something that should BE ABLE to happen. I would hate to ask, but, did he get ill ? Is there just some extenuating circumstance we don't know about ? I guess I'd want to know the whole story being in your shoes. The guy just seems to care too much not to take care of stuff right away.

Anyway, within a few days, we will all know what your next step is one way or the other. We are still here to back you in every way possible. Try and get some sleep too ! I'm one to talk about that. Lol. I just really hope this works out well for all involved. We all like happy endings. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out that way.

Again, just really cool to see people helping others in this community. It's a refreshing break from everyday life. There's a village idiot or 5 everywhere you go, but the vast majority here are great. Kudos to everyone for sticking together. It's a very cool thing, and it should stay that way.

Boom · #78 05-06-2012, 02:50 AM

Section 8...just to kind of dig into your question of what has happened over there. Obviously I do not know. But for clarity sake, the biggest issue at hand isn't the imperfections or obvious flaws in the kit. It is in how it is being handled. And no one can permanently ruin customer service. ie...if a CEO of some company has a policy of "screw the customer"...yeah his customer service is going to suck.

But if that same CEO is then let go or whatever and a new one comes in with the mantra that "Customer service is the most important part of our business. The customer must be satisfied." In my opinion, I don't think that would take too long to fix. I worked in customer service for years. You either care about the customer or you don't. So if I understand one of your questions, the person that might have been in charge and doing things unlike the DW way has been gone for months (from what I've been told).

That might not be long enough to fix quality control. I do not know. But I think customer service can be changed nearly over night. You have a meeting and stress how things will be and anyone not doing that will lose their job. It doesn't take a lot of practice to be courteous.

I don't think anything that is going on right now can be blamed on previous temporary management. I don't see how it can be. My kit was started AFTER I spoke to JG. He was back in charge. I don't see how the buck can be passed on to anyone else.

You crack me up though, sec8. Is he sick or something? lol...oh man.

section8usmc · #79 05-06-2012, 04:17 AM

Yeah, you make some good points. I guess I havent followed the timeline very close. I suppose, adding to what you said, it was a certain way before, it definitely would not take this long to get back to where you were. That's said, I got nuthin. Lol

tripp2k · #80 05-06-2012, 06:00 AM

I just read this thread but not the others. Take the set back to your dealer who is ultimately accountable to you and get your money back. The dealer earns a profit margin for the right and responsibility for representing the brand.

Find another dealer and purchase the set you want from a different brand...whatever that may be.

You will forever have a sour taste in your mouth about a DW kit after this experience and them making it right isn't going to change that. I don't know who you are (I'm a hack musician myself who has my calling in business) but I don't expect your last name is Peart. DW will bend over forwards and backwards for Peart, but probably leave the dealer to manage anything but the top echelon of drummers.

Send the message, move on and then use your time playing. As someone pointed out a 2nd crack at a second chance is inexcusable AND the final straw. FWIW, I won't get rid of my DW hardware, but I will never purchase DW drums as a result of this well documented experience. Mission accomplished.